EB 2013-02-17 transcript

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All times are in central time

18:46 <@JohannWeiss> I'm calling this meeting to order
18:46 <@JohannWeiss> I will chair, Rlim will take minutes
18:47 <@JohannWeiss> We have no agenda, so bring forward any moitions
18:48 < anon5928> yo
18:48 < RLim> yay
18:48 < RLim> WIlson is here
18:48 <@JohannWeiss> Hey wilson
18:48 < Wilson> Anything exciting on the agenda?
18:48 <@CCitizen> Actually I think there will be... adpaolucci  has something
18:49 <@JohannWeiss> go ahead adpaolucci
18:49 < RLim> I am working on a cash flow report for January/February to present for the GM
18:49 < RLim> oops sorry. 
18:49  * RLim shutup now
18:49 <@adpaolucci> New motion: Lease server from OVH for a period of 1 year and purchase a lifetime license for iRedAdmin-Pro(mail service)
18:50 <@adpaolucci> That is the quick motion, I am currently working on a IT Action Plan / Roadmap
18:50 <@adpaolucci> 5 year plan
18:50 < Wilson> Can you give us the costs?
18:50 <@adpaolucci>         $1068.00 CAD/Yearly(for server)
18:50 <@adpaolucci>         $599 USD/Once(for iRedAdmin-Pro License)
18:51 <@JohannWeiss> What would the iRedAdmin-Pro give us?
18:52 <@adpaolucci> A full control panel for mailing lists and accounts
18:52 <@CCitizen> For reference I believe iWeb is costing us like $200/mo?
18:52 < RLim> I know it's a control panel
18:53 <@adpaolucci> CCitizen: it might be more then that
18:53 < RLim> but what major advantage does it have
18:53 < RLim> ?
18:53 <@adpaolucci> The major advantage? Well in the future we won't need to have someone spend days slaving to maintain the mail server
18:54 <@adpaolucci> this has everything ranging from mailing lists to backup jobs built in
18:54 <@JohannWeiss> That's sound like a plus
18:54 <@CCitizen> Also it's a one time cost so the longer we use it the cheaper it is ultimately
18:54 < RLim> can we manage our mail using other general control panel
18:54 < RLim> ?
18:54 < Wilson> @cc that is what appeals to me
18:54 <@CCitizen> Use it for 10 y ears and it's basically cost us like $60/year
18:54 < RLim> Like plesk and cp?
18:54 < RLim> I am not opposing just trying to understand it a bit more
18:54 <@adpaolucci> RLim: short answer no
18:55 <@JMcleod> I dont get what it can give us, are there alternatives?
18:55 <@CCitizen> isnt plesk ones for setting up server accounts?
18:55 <@adpaolucci> This control panel is focused on email, and gives us complete control
18:55 < RLim> plesk have mailing and mailing list also
18:56 <@adpaolucci> This panel is also open source so we can easily make changes to it.
18:56 <@adpaolucci> RLim: is it built into the mail system?
18:56 < RLim> if it makes managing e-mail so much better $600 might not be much
18:56 <@adpaolucci> meaning account controls and everything
18:56 < RLim> for personal use it would be but since e-mail is crucial to us
18:57 <@CCitizen> Well consider the money we're saving by switching away from iWeb
18:57 < Wilson> I'm posting to (what I think) is the list of features. At the bottom http://www.iredmail.org/admin_panel.html
18:57 < RLim> hope I am not getting too off topic. But what server do we have with iweb? how does it compare to OVH?
18:58 <@adpaolucci> current server
18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	Gentoo
18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	10TB
18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	100Mbps port
18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	i3 - Dual Core - 3.06Ghz H/T
18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	8GB RAM
18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	2x1TB SATA2 Raid 1
18:58 <@adpaolucci> not sure on the price for it, but it is well above the one at OVH
18:58 <@CCitizen> We're not off topic since the motion is about funding the OVH  server and getting an email management system
18:58 <@CCitizen> Might want to show them the stats for the OVH one you were suggesting
18:58 <@adpaolucci> This is the OVH server:
18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	Proxmox
18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	100Mbps
18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	Intel Xeon E3 1245v2 - 4 Cores - 3.4GHz+
18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	32 RAM
18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	2x2TB SATA3 Raid(Soft) 1
18:59 <@adpaolucci> 	/28 IP Block
18:59 <@adpaolucci> 	$1068.00 CAD/Yearly
18:59 <@adpaolucci> It's worth it for the xeons alone
18:59 <@JMcleod> WTF is proxmox?
18:59 <@adpaolucci> proxmox is a VMware alternative
18:59 <@JMcleod> Oh ok
18:59 <@adpaolucci> virtualization control panel, it's open source and free
19:00 <@JMcleod> Will the new server be based on debian/ubuntu?
19:00 <@adpaolucci> other then the host OS, no
19:00 <@adpaolucci> everything is going to be CentOS
19:00 <@CCitizen> I think we're paying almost $200/mo for iWeb which is somethinglike $2400/year
19:00 <@JMcleod> In any case
19:00 <@JMcleod> I move to drop and purchase a lifetime license for iRedAdmin-Pro(mail service) from the current motion
19:01 <@JMcleod> I move to drop "and purchase a lifetime license for iRedAdmin-Pro(mail service)" from the current motion
19:01 <@JMcleod> The idea is to have 2 seperate votes
19:01 < Wilson> i second
19:01 < RLim> move to vote on first motion?
19:01 < Wilson> we need to consider both in depth which is made easier if kept seperate
19:02 <@JohannWeiss> Is anyone opposed to splitting it into two votes?
19:02 <@adpaolucci> I am
19:02 <@JohannWeiss> Care to elaborate
19:02 <@adpaolucci> I want to pass the motion in one batch, we need the new server, and we need the control panel to setup our mail server ASAP
19:02 <@CCitizen> I think the mail service one is a good investment in the long run if it makes things easier for future IT...
19:03 <@CCitizen> Part of the problem we're dealing with is the fact we've been in limbo in terms of server and email for weeks or months
19:03 <@JohannWeiss> (splitting them doesn't necessarily mean one will pass and not the other, it just makes it possible) 
19:03 < Wilson> All goes well both will be passed tonight, Adpaolucci. But right now we are jumping back and forth.
19:04 <@adpaolucci> The current official email server has been blackholing about 80% of emails
19:04 <@adpaolucci> I would like them both to be passed together as I need both to get everything up and running
19:05 <@CCitizen> I think we've discussed enough on both aspects of the original topic... perhaps we could talk about specifics to the mail service if people have issues with it?
19:05 <@JohannWeiss> Well an amendment was proposed and seconded, so we have to either debate/vote on it or the mover can decide to rescind it. 
19:06 <@CCitizen> ok lets get it done then
19:06 <@JohannWeiss> If it isn't rescinded then we can vote on the amendment (splitting them). If there is further discussion, say so now.
19:07 <@JohannWeiss> 60 sec
19:07 <@adpaolucci> ok, split it
19:07 <@JohannWeiss> all in favour of splitting the original moption say aye, all opposed say nay
19:07 <@JMcleod> aye
19:08 < Wilson> aye
19:08 < RLim> aye
19:08 <@adpaolucci> abstain
19:08 <@JohannWeiss> aye
19:08 <@CCitizen> aye
19:09 <@CCitizen> might as well discuss them separately since I think people want to talk more about the mail thing
19:09 <@JohannWeiss> the amendment passes, 5 in favor, 1 abstain
19:09 < Wilson> Current motion?
19:09 <@JohannWeiss> So now the first motion is to "Lease server from OVH for a period of 1 year
19:10 <@CCitizen> should we proceed to voting on that?
19:10 <@JohannWeiss> We will vote unless someone requests discussion within 60 sec
19:10 <@adpaolucci> I second that
19:10 < Broken_Syntax> (sorry trying to catch up.)
19:11 <@JohannWeiss> You want a minutes or two to read before we vote? 
19:11 < Broken_Syntax> (almost done.)
19:12 < Broken_Syntax> (okay caught up, thank you.)
19:12 <@JohannWeiss> Voting on the main motion: To lease a server from OVH for a period of 1 year
19:12 < Broken_Syntax> adpaolucci, you currently the mail server admin?
19:12 <@JohannWeiss> wait
19:13 <@JohannWeiss> sorry, I thought you meant you were ready to vote
19:13 <@JohannWeiss> Discuss further
19:13 < RLim> his question is more for 2nd motion I thinik
19:13 < RLim> *think
19:13 <@JohannWeiss> You are correct
19:13 <@CCitizen> adpaolucci is our IT Director at the moment
19:13 < RLim> does Broken_Syntax proxying for someone?
19:13 < RLim> *is
19:14 < RLim> or does he get to vote on EB? 
19:14 < RLim> not trying to be a jerk :P
19:14 <@CCitizen> Can we vote on approving the expenditure for the server?
19:14 < Broken_Syntax> Hmm, could point RLim :P
19:14 <@CCitizen> then we can talk more about the mail control panel/service
19:14 <@JohannWeiss> You're right Ric
19:14 <@JohannWeiss> Alright
19:14 < RLim> but I would love more people joining discussion
19:14 <@JohannWeiss> Time to vote
19:15 < Wilson> Aye
19:15 < RLim> aye
19:15 <@JohannWeiss> aye
19:15 <@CCitizen> aye
19:15 <@adpaolucci> aye
19:15 <@JMcleod> aye
19:15 <@JohannWeiss> Votes passes, 6 in favour, 0 against
19:15 < RLim> Broken_Syntax: so please give your input
19:16 <@JohannWeiss> Now the main motion is to purchase a lifetime license for iRedAdmin-Pro(mail service)
19:17 <@JMcleod> I am a bit worried for that given that in the past year there were 0 success stories
19:17 <@JMcleod> So the main questions are
19:17 <@JMcleod> Does adpaolucci have experience with it since he will be the one setting it up?
19:17 <@adpaolucci> I currently have a version of their free software running on one of my servers
19:18 <@CCitizen> Is that the roundcube thing you had me check out?
19:18 < Broken_Syntax> Well, I'm out of touch with the current set-up a little. I have some experience with CentOS servers and find their administration to be fairly straightforward. Proxmox I haven't used, but if adpaolucci is confident in it I trust his opinion. That leaves just the iRedMail solution as a wildcard. Price seems good, do we know anything about the company, its longterm support goals and costs, existing track record?
19:18 < RLim> also, is it easy to learn in case adpaolucci quit or someone wants to manage it
19:18 < RLim> ?
19:18 < Broken_Syntax> And that one.
19:18 <@JMcleod> has adpaolucci gone through http://www.iredmail.org/forum/forum2-iredmail-support.html  to see if there was actual support?
19:18 <@adpaolucci> The reason I want to go with this control panel is that it is easy to manage in case I leave
19:19 <@JohannWeiss> (I need to step out for 5 minutes, continue discussing) 
19:19 <@CCitizen> I think most of the choices adpaolucci has been making has been with future administration in mind as well as his own. Partly why he suggested a change from Debian to CentOS
19:19 <@adpaolucci> JMcleod: I actually emailed them for support with a server I had running it
19:19 < Broken_Syntax> And you mentioned it is open source. Do we know what language(s) and has anyone vetted the code for readability and design? Is it modular/easily expandable etc.?
19:20 < RLim> it says open source free version? SO is Pro open source also?
19:20 <@adpaolucci> the pro code is not open source
19:20 <@JMcleod> RLim: http://www.iredmail.org/admin_demo.html
19:20 <@adpaolucci> but you are given a copy of the source code when you buy a license
19:21 < Broken_Syntax> So not truly open source, but you're capable of making modifications. Likely at the expense of official support channels.
19:21 < Broken_Syntax> (the pro verison)
19:21 < RLim> and you can create module or plugin for it?
19:21 < Broken_Syntax> version*
19:21 <@adpaolucci> the base systems are open source
19:21 <@adpaolucci> the control panel is not
19:21 < Broken_Syntax> Aha
19:21 <@adpaolucci> The software is solid, the question is do we want a long term control panel for email so that someone else other then me can manage it
19:21 < Broken_Syntax> That makes sense.
19:22 < RLim> what is our backend?
19:22 < RLim> database
19:22 <@JohannWeiss> (back)
19:22 <@CCitizen> yeah... I figure it's a good investment for now and future mail related tasks
19:22 <@adpaolucci> there is no better control panel for the price, the only other options are; open-exchange(paid), zimbra(paid), exchange(paid)
19:22 <@adpaolucci> Our backend is LDAP
19:22 <@CCitizen> Also... currently we've got some temporary solution on one of adpaolucci's servers running  the free version atm
19:23 < Broken_Syntax> scalix (paid beyond I think 20 users.)
19:24 <@JMcleod> how much are the alternatives?
19:24 < Broken_Syntax> It sounds decent, and the control panel is intuitive?
19:24 <@JMcleod> control panel looks easy enough at first glance
19:24 < RLim> wordpress / drupal like interface
19:25 <@adpaolucci> <Broken_Syntax>: yes
19:25 < Wilson> @JMcleod Unless the otherones also have lifetime deals thins one would be cheapest
19:25 < RLim> how expandable is it? are there large community developing plugin?
19:25 <@JMcleod> Should our members ask for the source code, can we give it to them?
19:25 < Wilson> augh  * other ones  *this
19:26 < RLim> JMcleod: we can easily designate someone as IT so technically their working forus
19:26 <@adpaolucci> There are no plugins. We can't share the code openly
19:26 < RLim> *for us
19:26 <@JMcleod> ok good point rlim
19:26 < Broken_Syntax> Last mail server I administrated that wasn't MS Exchange was a Horde-Mail project, tied in with Plesk for account administration... As mentioned before Plesk handles a host of other things (such as web-server hosting) but I keep coming back to one-time purchase model being a major + in the long term if iRedMail has the support and will continue to be around.
19:27 <@JMcleod> Is iredmail just 1 guy or many guys?
19:28 <@adpaolucci> It's a company
19:29 < RLim> BTW, does not look like we have outstanding bill with iweb. Paypal shows payment on January 20th of $166.88
19:29 < RLim> so sooner we move to new server sooner we can cancel our iweb account
19:29 < Broken_Syntax> Open-Xchange server pricing: http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-xchange.com%2Ffileadmin%2Fuser_upload%2Fopen-xchange%2Fdocument%2Fpricelist%2Fpricelist.pdf&ei=8YMhUfXOAoXU0gGP9IG4DA&usg=AFQjCNFtfgi_Wm0zkewM_ES-_5BMgdwjQA&bvm=bv.42553238,d.dmQ
19:29 <@adpaolucci> I still need time to set it up
19:29 <@CCitizen> Ah ok so its about $170... not $200 like I thought
19:30 <@adpaolucci> Broken_Syntax: I know nothing of Open-Xchange and don't plan on it.
19:30 < Broken_Syntax> Since it was asked, looked about $200 per 10 users per year.
19:30 <@CCitizen> Also... I'd say official we could direct them to the company's open source options and mention we have a service contract which offers additional functionality
19:30 < Broken_Syntax> adpaolucci, (Pricing of alternatives was asked about, just approaching that.)
19:31 <@JMcleod> Just wondering, could the PPca sell email management? 
19:31 <@CCitizen> are there any lifetime ones?
19:31 <@CCitizen> Actually
19:31 <@CCitizen> Jake wanted to sell piratemail.ca to us for use as a webmail type thing
19:32 < RLim> well if we want to do piratemail
19:32 < RLim> as a hotmail type service
19:32 < Broken_Syntax> Scalix looks to be even pricier.
19:32 <@JMcleod> yeah, if we do piratemail
19:32 <@JMcleod> we need something very robust
19:32 < RLim> and have it as pay what you want model
19:32 <@CCitizen> Well can we vote on the email control panel now?
19:33 <@JohannWeiss> Any objections to voting on the main motion (60sec)?
19:34 <@CCitizen> None here
19:34 <@JohannWeiss> We are now voting the current motion to purchase a lifetime license for iRedAdmin-Pro(mail service)
19:34 <@JohannWeiss> all in favour, say aye all against, nay
19:34 <@adpaolucci> aye
19:34 < RLim> aye
19:34 < Wilson> aye
19:34 <@JohannWeiss> aye
19:34 <@JMcleod> nay
19:36 <@JohannWeiss> CCitizen?
19:37 <@CCitizen> aye
19:37 <@JohannWeiss> Motion passes, 5 in favour, 1 opposed
19:38 <@JMcleod> Regardless, if you buy a LDAP can you switch to mysql if IT in 5 years decide to change?
19:39 <@adpaolucci> nope
19:39 <@adpaolucci> but that is just for the auth system
19:39 < Wilson> ok. Adpaolucci/others how long before you can get this purchased and set up?
19:39 < Broken_Syntax> http://www.iredmail.org/forum/topic1355-iredmail-support-how-to-convert-ldap-backend-to-mysql.html
19:39 <@adpaolucci> and we are inacting LDAP accross all systems
19:40 <@adpaolucci> Wilson: if all goes to plan, we purchase the server Monday and it will be ready by mid week, and the rest of the week for testing
19:41 < RLim> does LDAP works on phpmyadmin
19:41 <@JohannWeiss> Don't do any server changing until after the EB election.
19:41 < RLim> more like it's version I guess since my is for mysql
19:41 <@CCitizen> LDAP makes administration easier too... For those of you with MS backgrounds it does much of what Active Directory does. It basically keeps track of who is allowed to access what resources from a central location
19:41 <@CCitizen> Instead of having to maintain logins for each VM separately
19:41 < RLim> but is it efficient? or is it like MS Windows? :P
19:42 <@CCitizen> Actually LDAP came first I think then MS stole it for their Active Directory/Server stuff and bloated it up
19:42 < Broken_Syntax> Active Directory is built on LDAP and there are several standard LDAP tools that will interact with it's schema.
19:42 < RLim> I am comfortable running a sql script but not sure about LDAP
19:42 < Broken_Syntax> its8
19:42 < Broken_Syntax> *
19:44 <@CCitizen> Thankfully LDAP costs $0 :D
19:45 <@JMcleod> Well, LDAP is an IT choice, they can debate it there :P
19:45 <@CCitizen> I think it's already been done... it's part of the IT plan that's been proposed
19:46 <@CCitizen> Just because it simplifies the administration of resource access which is important when you're dealing with like half a dozen VM's
19:46 < RLim> how does the performance compares to say postgressql
19:46 < RLim> ?
19:47 <@CCitizen> LDAP is used for authentication. I dont think you can directly c ompare to like MySQL or postresql
19:47 < RLim> so could mysql run behind LDAP
19:47 < RLim> LDAP as authentication layer
19:47 < RLim> not sure if it works like that
19:48 <@adpaolucci> for what though?
19:48 <@adpaolucci> MySQL is still used by the email system
19:48 <@adpaolucci> just not for authentication
19:48 < RLim> that's what I mean
19:48 < RLim> say for our voting codes etc
19:48 < RLim> it uses sql
19:49 < RLim> so that won't be affected? Sorry for my ignorance on LDAP
19:49 < Wilson> Inquiry: Were there any other motions tonight?
19:49 < RLim> Wilson: no
19:50 < Wilson> k. I motion we adjourn (informal discussion can still continue)
19:50 <@adpaolucci> So who on the fund do I talk to about leasing the server?\
19:50 < RLim> wait
19:51 < RLim> any business to discuss about the GM and election?
19:51 < RLim> I can pay OVH using paypal
19:51 < RLim> let me know
19:51 <@JMcleod> Well GM = present PC results.
19:51 <@JMcleod> And set up EB right?
19:51 <@JMcleod> Anything else?
19:51 <@JohannWeiss> The PC election seemed to work out okay. The EB should be about the same
19:51 <@JohannWeiss> Right?
19:52 <@CCitizen> Yeah... technically we dont even need to do much about the PC election unless someone has a complaint
19:52 <@JMcleod> Shouldnt EB be a top 2 vote for Pres and VP and secretary is a different vote?
19:52 < RLim> yep. Just want to make sure we are not forgetting anything
19:52 < Wilson> I know Vaughn Male wants to seek a position. Haven't heard about anybody else
19:53 <@JohannWeiss> Right, that counting of the votes will be different
19:53 <@JohannWeiss> just a straight count with an ordred list
19:53 < RLim> we are not doing a write in right? 
19:54 < RLim> So would be the same. Nominate and then vote
19:54 <@JMcleod> So EB is Yes/No (no abstain)
19:54 <@JMcleod> Since approval doesnt matter
19:54 <@JMcleod> I wonder though, should it be 1 vote for pres/vp and another vote for secretary?
19:54 <@JohannWeiss> Yes
19:55 <@JMcleod> Thats how I view it, cant see how to do it otherwise
19:55 <@JohannWeiss> the Pres/VP have to be the same cause of the const modifications
19:55 < Wilson> I am being kicked off the computer so I will say good night.
19:55 < RLim> ok night Wilson 
19:56 <@JMcleod> Good night Wilson
19:56 <@CCitizen> 3 votes... Pres/VP, Leader/Deputy Leader and Secretary
19:56 <@JohannWeiss> Yes
19:56 <@CCitizen> That said people in PC need to run for leader :)
19:56 <@JohannWeiss> Indeed
19:57 <@JMcleod> Isnt leader given to most approval?
19:57 <@JohannWeiss> That's all possible using the same system, right RLim? 
19:57 < RLim> Well it is more of a drop down list than 2 yes no then
19:58 < RLim> you either choose one or the other except for Secretary
19:58 < RLim> also I am not running
19:58 <@CCitizen> In the constitution the leader is elected from the PC when the president and secreatary are done
19:58 < RLim> if I am forced to someone have to take over the vote counts
19:59 < RLim> ah because they can't hold 2 positions
19:59 <@CCitizen> It was set up that way because people who are popular might not want to be leader
19:59 <@JohannWeiss> RLim
19:59 < RLim> hmm what if someone want to run for both. :P
19:59 <@CCitizen> Both of what
19:59 <@JohannWeiss> I definitly wont be running, can you show me how to deal with the vote?
19:59 <@CCitizen> Radio buttons
19:59 < RLim> okay it's easy
20:00 <@CCitizen> You can only select one option for leader, one option for secretary and one option for president
20:00 < RLim> ok
20:00 <@CCitizen> Whoever gets most votes for leader becomes leader.Runner up ends up as deputy leader
20:00 <@CCitizen> same with president/vp
20:00 < RLim> JohannWeiss: I can walk you through including the datagbase
20:00 < Broken_Syntax> CCitizen, hehe, I was thinking the same thing. with 96% I was only 1 step away from being highest approval rating, and being my first year trying to be more than passively involved I don't think I have the background knowledge to lead, but then I tend to be highly self-critical.
20:00 < RLim> *database
20:01 <@CCitizen> besides approval% isnt a good judge of leadership. No offense... If you have 5 people who vote yes and 10 abstains you have an approval rating of 100% :D
20:01 <@JMcleod> Lead really means you are the contact with EC and talk to TV people that pester us if we get in the news somehow
20:01 < RLim> so PC should not be running for Pres/VP
20:01 <@JMcleod> its not that bad
20:01 < RLim> and sec
20:02 <@CCitizen> PC should avoid running for Pres/VP but they can resign if they win and become pres/vp
20:02 <@CCitizen> we have like what 8 people on PC now?
20:02 <@CCitizen> or 10?
20:02 <@JohannWeiss> 10
20:02 < RLim> ok
20:02 < RLim> but not run for leader and Pres at the same time
20:02 <@CCitizen> as long as we dont drop below 5 we dont need a by-election
20:03 < Broken_Syntax> Hmm, about that. I have press contacts who may *want* to do a piece on us. (or be politely requested to during a slow news week.)
20:03 <@CCitizen> Well I think it'd be dumb to do both since you'd effectively force a second election if you win both
20:03 < RLim> I guess there's no stopping them if they want to double bet their chances
20:03 <@CCitizen> that said... if someone tries to run for both I'd not vote for them for either
20:03 <@CCitizen> just out of principle
20:04 < RLim> we should adjourn
20:04 <@JohannWeiss> It wouldn't force a second election.
20:04 <@JohannWeiss> THey couldn't accept both positions
20:04 <@CCitizen> True..
20:04 <@JohannWeiss> so they would have to turn one down
20:05 <@JohannWeiss> which would elliminate them from the other ballot
20:05 <@CCitizen> In all honesty we probably need to redo the constitution badly
20:05 <@JohannWeiss> Yeaup
20:05 <@JMcleod> Yeah we do
20:05 <@CCitizen> we had a special committee on it before but nothing ever came from it
20:05 <@JMcleod> I gave all my ideas to EB last month
20:05 <@CCitizen> well we had plenty  of ideas
20:06 <@CCitizen> yeah I wasnt here last month but ideally I think the separation of PC/EB was a bad one... also electing PC one month then EB next month is kinda fail too even if I wrote it with good intentions it does show a flaw in our system
20:06 < Broken_Syntax> Should set up a working group on it and collaborate over Google docs or some such, then present for ratification one module at a time.
20:07 < Broken_Syntax> Make a goal of having one completed each meeting?
20:07 <@CCitizen> also need to incorporate some failsafes... for example if we didnt meet a quorum last month what happens? We'd be in breach of our own constitution because we'd be unable to hold the election
20:07 <@JohannWeiss> With the election starting within a week, I'd say we wait on constitituion work untill after
20:07 <@CCitizen> No you are better off to have everything written at once then pass it at once
20:08 <@JohannWeiss> Someone moved to adjourn, is there a second?
20:08 <@CCitizen> because if you propose an amendment at the feb GM, you ahve to wait until the march GM before you can put it up for vote then it only takes effect on the April GM
20:08 <@CCitizen> seconded
20:08 <@JohannWeiss> All in favour of adjourning?:
20:08 <@CCitizen> so every amendment takes 2 months to pass
20:08 <@CCitizen> aye
20:08 <@JohannWeiss> aye
20:08 <@JMcleod> aye
20:10 < RL1m> aye
20:10 <@CCitizen> Best way to do a constitutional rewrite would be whole cloth and propose it as one big block to be voted on
20:11 < Broken_Syntax> CCitizen, I was just thinking better that something get done than nothing.
20:11 <@JohannWeiss> Meeting adjourned

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