GM 2015-02-18 transcript

 >#canada< GM should be starting shortly.  rekabis: dankeschon  Who should we contact for voice? Usually RLim does it we should train at least one or two other on that :P sent him my stuff, just confirmed. this meeting will still take ab I think we get better attendance if we keep it to 1 hour. oh crap. i think i just buggered up my ipad client. nobody wants to commit to a 3 hr meeting :P We could probably get away with 1 hour meetings if we had them consistenty. a big problem is that it often takes the first hour just to reach quorum Someone mentioned on reddit that it was hard to attend the meetings because they live out west and it's hard to get home in time for 5pm. well we are 6 for 10 with only 4 minutes in, so that's pretty good.  hmm should we change it to 9pm Eastern if we are going to try to keep the meeting an hour  ?  the 6th will be doing a disappearing act now and then That, OR we could rotate the meeting times every other meeting. One month 8pm, one month 9 or 10. Or would that just be confusing for people?  I'd be down to rotate meetings if they become more frequent. I am not sure how the specific day was chosen either. I am afraid to touch that one.  Have two meetings, one on the second wednesday, and one on the fourth wednesday. The former at a earlier time, the later in a latter. We should totally just make up a survey and ask the membership what day of the week, and what time they prefer.  That is probably the best course of action. which parts of the GM can be easily taken to a website or some place with less time constraints? yeah, that is a good point, we can probably move a lot of shit to our forums. The reports, which should really be posted promptly after (or even before) the meeting anyway. this app is seriously annoying... sorry fo the gophering of my account…  Howdy. Sorry im late. Ideally the meetings should have some informed discussion and votes. E-voting is problematic. so it is not weird to have voting in meetings while discussion and reserch elsewhere plenty of org's have meetings that only consist of voting/deciding stuff to make it formal am i correct in thinking that i am 17 minutes late for meeting time ping RLim rekabis psema4 i dont know yeah, but we haven't started i doesnt really feel like a meeting is going on here?  As far as I know, we either do not have, or have just reached quorum.  vulliez: pm your e-mail to me Hello. GM newbie here. Though I joined the party a while ago. Anything I need to do to verify or anything? i am not a member just a guest from across the pond PM RLim with your e-mail i am a member in my own country winston, you /msg Rlim your e-mail address  davidd: what country are you from? the one you used for your membership sign-up netherlands  davidd: cool.  What's the current count for quorum? yeah well, canada is pretty cool too i think would a doodle poll be too creepy for GM planning? http://doodle.com/ (I never liked it while on the board of a previous organization) TraderEddy: 8ish... unless CCitizen is here, 5 Chanserv is a bot yeah, but I was assuming shawn will get verified and winston do we just need one more for quorum? or are we there? we need two winston is getting his stuff together right now? so one after that? correct …only one more? daaaang… I think we have quorum. after winston gets verified at least. thank goodness I think we need one more, since CCitizen may be afk  has anyone pinged him? i'm actually thinking of running this year. probably funded through GoFundMe, if that’s legally possible. <RLim> yay haha this is the interesting thing about online meetings: why not count CCitizen as present but abstaining? I'm sure our constituents and him would both approve, by merit of the fact that we were able to get this done. its not like we're going to vote to burn down the party. we're going to vote to initiate a party wide vote :P that sounds reasonable yeah, I totally agree if circular it's super frustrating <RLim> how do you verify the members psema4 <RLim> ? I am not disagreeing. <RLim> ping BrokenSyntax MononcQc thor the funny thing is that we would need quorum to change it I remember when we wanted to lower quorum from 15 to 10 I think actually sending out an e-mail may have been enough as well. but we needed to reach quorum to do it RLim: user integration isn't ready yet - once I have the code up I'll deal with that portion Yeah, it's the places where typical rules and online environments get frustrating <RLim> note for the future. if we have membership signup campaign please ask for e-mail I don't think we want to go lower than 10 for quorum. That would mean the EB/PB can essentially do anything they want. <RLim> right now those who signed up without e-mail have to be manually verified <RLim> i.e. their records are not online <RLim> hi shep RLim: do we have a count or ratio of how many without email addresses on file? hey all! I forget how to irc phillipsjk: I agree that a tyranny of a minority would be bad, but I also think the institution of GMs as they currently stand have been the biggest stumbling block to momentum in the past. also, make the party extremely suceptible to infiltration but, thats none of my biz :3 meeting over already? nope, waiting for quorum need 1 more <RLim> shep: msg your e-mail to me to get voiced and counted for quorum /msg RLim your e-mail address. <RLim> vulliez: please expand on: <RLim> I will take this as consent from the party-at-large that they believe in me, and therefore, are endorsing my vision for the election, candidates, and strategy. in the thread or here? <RLim> is this like Harper's I won a majority which means Canadians support all my bills? haha yes it's exactly like that ;) Apparently the swedish party has a "3 pirate rule" where if 3 pirates agree something is a good idea, it is done. I actually think im going to deny leadership if i got it Typically a group where quorum is required would also remove penalize/remove members for inactivity. (says the guy participating in his first meeting years after joining) and edit that out <RLim> well that would be interesting if you and James W declined I was split on whether or not to accept leadership, but i remembered the frustration of being cockblocked on my ideas and agenda <TraderEddy> Does James plan on declining? He sent an e-mail to the boards essentially sasying he will stay on until a replacement is found. Not sure he wants the specific reason public, <TraderEddy> Understood. why do we need a single leader anyways? <TraderEddy> I mean I'm running for PC. I could try my hand at the reigns if vulliez declines. I could have written that e-mail if I jsut changed a few words :P Yeah I see the only benefit of having a Leader as a public relations thing like a person to show off and have speak and be eloquent etc. as a whole, participation and collaboration are better Yeah, but if we just made the whole PC the collective leader, anyone from PC could speak as leader or designate a spokesperson or something there is a legal requirement with EC to have a leader on paper do we have shep? are we quorus? <RLim> yeah we discussed that before but EC needs a leader on paper that's fine though, we just put a leader on paper eeehhh… i'll do it. does it say the leader has to be a human? excellent point… <RLim> rekabis you are running for PC <RLim> ? <RLim> mordecai: lol honestly idk <RLim> are we going to beat rhino party in thinking that up The leader has to be an eligible voter, I'd expect. So that would probably be a human at this point. mordecai, I think you have to be human to be a Canadian citizen. i am seriously thinking of running this year, really on the fence about that so Pc? sure, if it'll help and we have quorum? im going to grab something to eat, if we get quorum feel free to start without me. I am here. just eating. 0/ hooray Now, I neglected to draw up an agenda, but the PC nomitations and election are a month behind schedule. Anything else to add? <RLim> let's do that first <RLim> I don;t have financial report since I was away for more than 2 weeks <RLim> and looking into using GNUCash GNUCash = da bomb i've used it quite a bit some irritations, but a seriously good product. so lets put the PC vote to a vote? does someone want to make the motion? (i'm in bi <RLim> phillipsjk: nomination first? I think so. (i'm in boththe accounting and it fields) so who's nominated? https://my.pirateparty.ca/forum/119 ah <RLim> let's do that firstght you've e-mailed them already should run <RLim> our focus will be on policies until we went through most of them. Might put a cut-off to give tme for preparing the booklet for election <RLim> argh <RLim> message got cut off . first line should read: those who can set aside time per week to read a forum thread on policies and vote on them should run <TraderEddy> Well, I'm still good for that. No last-minute nominations? <RLim> anyone? <RLim> shep? nope <RLim> I would ot do a travis nominate all present <RLim> *not haha that was a strange choice of him. I recall that. I move that we hold an all-party vote for the nominated contestants. (we did that unofficially last meeting) <RLim> yeah it did not turn out good I think since a bloated PC that does not show up will have a hard time meeting quorum @phillipsjk second <RLim> psema4: if you can join in forum per week and vote. I think we can accept vote by e-mail I'm here is there any discussion on the motion? nope, lets vote. its simple. we are all here to do that. its easy. lets get it done! Motion: that we hold an all-party vote for the nominated contestants. (listed: https://my.pirateparty.ca/forum/119) >#canada< Vote in progress (2 mins) say 'aye' or 'nay' seconded aye aye ayup aye aye aye <RLim> shep just wondering if you want to run for PC <TraderEddy> aye <RLim> aye RLim nope, thanks though. <TylerMcNab> Aye? aye <RLim> TylerMcNab: unsure? Carried. Aye: 10 Nay: 0 abs: 0 its unanimous! I was just waiting for 2 mins to run out so we may be in trouble with our credit card processor. last month there were numerous $1 credit card testing transactions. Apparently we have not reversed those charges yet. Hopefully if we do that soon we won't get hit by charge-back fees. I move to give the PC the power of the GM any month that quorum is not reached until after the next federal election. Inaction is the biggest problem in this party, and quorum is the culprit. <TylerMcNab> Sorry got lost. I vote aye seconded emergency powers? <TylerMcNab> For both ayup What is the current requirement for qourum? 10 Motion: to give the PC the power of the GM any month that quorum is not reached until after the next federal election. Inaction is the biggest problem in this party, and quorum is the culprit Though the constitution page still says 15 because I have not updated it yet. any discussion? What if we were to reduce it to 7? Instead? it used to be 50 IIRC. the low quorum already places us needlessly succeptible to infiltration it should be 50. Changing the constitution also requires an all-party vote. the problem is we just keep reducing it to no effect Would this proposal be consistent with election regulations? Hopefully our activity will increase as election season nears. Fair enough mordecai if activity increases, it won't be an issue anyways in the issue that we can regularly reach quorum, it will not need to be needed <TylerMcNab> Sorry. Why not have votes in the forum over a time frame. And have people sign in for the extended meeting. I know we discussed that before. mordecai, agreed we should not act like our own PC Is some malevolent entity that needs to be held responsible by the membership as a whole. we really all want the same things, <RLim> I think we tend toeither get quorum or pretty dead <RLim> and sending e-mail notice exactly 1 week (NOT less) helps TylerMcNab, that seems like a more democratic option. It can still be a relatively limited time frame to keep momentum, maybe as little as a week. TylerMcNab: we'll soon have a voting solution TylerMcNab, that would not really meet the Robert's Rules definition of meeting IMO. Everybody in attendance has to be able to hear everything said. <RLim> do we need motion to start voting for the batch 1 of policies? <TylerMcNab> Because 90% of the reason im not here is just the 6:00pm is really early. Litteraly right now im both in this meeting and one for my day job. <RLim> the backend still need testing but can sent an e-mail notice out when it is ready vulliez, that's a good point. Why limit the PC's power if the PC is doing good for the party? it's 5pm for me… <TraderEddy> I move to have a vote whether or not the previous motion "to give the PC the power of the GM any month that quorum is not reached until after the next federal election" should be appended. <RLim> unless psema4 code can easily be adopted for policies voting with comment for each policy <TylerMcNab> Ditch rr. Or modify it to allow discussion on a forum where everyone can see for a few days. And vote a few days after? RLim: I can extend it <TraderEddy> Let's argue about what can be changed if enough of us want something to change. +1 tyler I trust the PC, whether or not I'm on it. The worst case scenario is slightly more is done. <RLim> major push right now is on policy. We need to do it every week. consistently yeah, and if anyone has a problem with it they could you know, just come to the meeting Policy nerd here: If the constitution or bylaws say that something must be decided by a GM, does that not require an ammendment to the consitution/bylaws to give that power to the PC? <RLim> it was flowing nicely before christmas break. After the break I think we were kind of waiting for the new PC <RLim> to be elected Rlim I think we should hold the policy vote until the previous motion is voted on. <RLim> okay If it is, lets craft the wording and send it to an all-party vote with the candidates <RLim> so the question is is that a simple motion or does it need constitutional amendment <RLim> ? <RLim> ok I have another proposed amendment after vulliez sounds like a constitutional ammendment if we need an AP vote to throw out an amendment giving the PC emergency powers when quorums are not reached although it's limited in scope (1 year iirc) then put it with the PC vote Though most of the things for which the constitution requires a GM are not things the PC would want to do before the election. <RLim> are there anything that GM approval is required that could paralyze the party if not dealt with rightaway? <RLim> other than PC and EB election <TraderEddy> I thoroughly enjoy how we are doing this without even having a new PC in place. I think the GM is needed to elect the PC and EB Which should be done by election time anyway. Most tother things can be delegated to the PC and EB <RLim> except constitutional amendment I have to leave for 10 mins, but I vote yes to Shawn's motion sure, RLim is your amendment just for internal elections specifically? <RLim> we should just create an online forum <RLim> for PC to call a PC election <RLim> vulliez: ^ I agree with your last point, but i could withdraw my motion to replace it with "give the PC the ability to hold all party ballots without going through the GM" or internal elections specifically id support that. <RLim> I like that since that is potetially what could hold us up <RLim> *potentially yeah i guess the PC already has power when quorums aren't being met <RLim> especially with policies votes etc I would argue that we should raise quorum tbh. I could show up here with 10 friends, donate 10 bucks each, and turn this into a scat fetish party <RLim> phillipsjk: anything stopping PC and EB from sending an all party vote right now that's not my fetish <RLim> vulliez: you still need an all party vote :) haha i will withdraw my motion when we have another version maybe not: https://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php?title=Constitution_2012-06-20#IX.2_All-Party_Ballots oh crap "and/or through a website approved by the assembly" - does this mean we need a vote to approve the new voting code? back i could do a code review for the party key word is assembly because i hac <RLim> psema4 the voting code does not have to be voted on ty :) because i haven't worked on it, it should be relatively independent ah ok <RLim> we should have the source code available for review minus the passwords <RLim> and other security info like database name that should always be in a separate config.ini file the source code will go up on github so it'll be open & available to be audited it should never be in the cde Amended motion: to give the PC the power to call all-party votes any month that quorum is not reached during the GM: until after the next federal election. *code <RLim> Except for constitutional amendments? I second the motion ( we have to do this right?) <RLim> or does it matter since it is still going to all paerty vote No I think we should give them the right to bring forward amendments. Hopefull they will not abuse the power :) <RLim> if they do hopefully enough members care to vote it down during the all party vote there is not a risk involved if it goes to an all party vote anyways :P it has to be a good idea. voting fatigue can happen the PC has never (and will never) bring forward motions contrary to the goals and agenda of the party as a whole <RLim> what is the current quorum for adoption in an all party vote I think I want to chnage the : to a ; <RLim> unless it's been hijacked by scat fetish group the PC? haha <RLim> lol if the PC is hijacked by malevolent forces we're already screwed, but luckily that would never happen :P any other discussion? the thing is- PC members are volunteering hundreds of hours, and the party treats them like criminals instead of life support Motion: to give the PC the power to call all-party votes any month that quorum is not reached during the GM; until after the next federal election. anyways, i have nothing more to say except approve the amendment >#canada< Vote in progress (2 mins) say 'aye' or 'nay' aye aye aye aye <TylerMcNab> Aye <TraderEddy> aye aye <RLim> aye aye Carried. Aye: 9 Nay: 0 abs: 1 <RLim> okay policy aye too late :) not too late to me, friend. :) <RLim> so we need to give notice for the constitutional amendments or include that in the PC election notice? in my heart. i'd say give it out at the same time. What constitutional ammendment? We just gave the PC blanket approval for all-party votes (a delegation of GM powers) <RLim> nvm lol <RLim> but is it for the assembly to give up their power that have been written in the constitution? Oh yeah, that's totally in the constitution woo ya'll jabber on for 45 minutes then I have 2 minutes to vote ;) Ok, I'll count it. Carried. Aye: 10 Nay: 0 abs: 0 the GM can delegate to other bodies, we have done it in this case, in the event we cannot assemble :o) haha this is more progress than i saw in my whole year as leader! <RLim> lol Rlim was discussing approving proposed policies? <RLim> or whether we need consti amendment <RLim> ok onto policies <RLim> so PC can just decide whenever <RLim> but since we are already here <RLim> and the PC election won't be done for a week or more going to have to step out for about 20, rlim you have my proxy until i get back. <RLim> might as well vote on it. in case the code is ready by weekend <RLim> maybe it can go out the same time as PC notice Motion: Send first batch of policies proposed by the EB to an all-party vote. <RLim> we decided on a month for policies I believe <RLim> *by the PC Motion: Send first batch of policies proposed by the PC to an all-party vote. What do you mean bey we decided on a month for the policies? 1 month to vote? <RLim> yeah <RLim> since there are a lot and they would comment on each one. Trying to make it so that they can revisit their vote and comments until the close of voting <RLim> *end any other discussion? nope Motion: Send first batch of policies proposed by the PC to an all-party vote. >#canada< Vote in progress (2 mins) say 'aye' or 'nay' aye aye aye <RLim> aye <RLim> aye for rekabis if that is allowed (I am not sure it is) <TraderEddy> nay aye I will count rekabis as abstain I think. (still contribuiting to quorum) <RLim> ok <TylerMcNab> Aye <TylerMcNab> (I thought with RR quarom can be lost. As long as we have quarom at the start of the meeting?) Carried. Aye: 6 Nay: 1 abs: 3 I think business is supposed to stop once people notice quorum was lost. Could be wrong. Anything else? I move to adjourn. so when will the voting for PC take place? if the code works, hopefully over this or next week. <RLim> probably weekend cool, I will second the motion to adjourn Motion: adjourn. abstain >#canada< Vote in progress (2 mins) say 'aye' or 'nay' aye <TraderEddy> aye aye aye <TylerMcNab> Aye aye <RLim> aye best meeting ever Carried. Aye: 7 Nay: 0 abs: 3 Thanks for coming everybody I will try to get the minutes posted by the week-end. Yeah, everyone who showed up: you are amazing. i agree! Well I have a midterm in the morning so I'm out. Take care everyone and see you next month. gah. i thought i gave rlim my proxy! bless ya'll i'm just glad i was able to make it, what with chinese new years tonight and tomorrow. in-laws tend to take a dim view if i'm on my devices and unsociable. Later all! Good work! <RLim> rekabis: apparently proxy is not allowed <RLim> I should know by now :P ah, ok. shame, that. RLim: rekabis lets amend the constitution for proxy voting liquid democracy is the pirate party's strength ;o) well, i thing temporary proxies are very useful inIRC, in case someone has to step away fo a few minutes. yep also i would add, for like PC meetings I think being able to show up and say "i have dinner with my in laws tonight- i give my votes to ric lim" should count as quorum and be taken as valid but thats just my passion project
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