GM 2013-05-15 transcript

 All log times are central time.

19:55:10 -!- strake [~strake@rgz69l75j1v7587-wn76597emw402c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #canada 19:56:29 <@CCitizen> Hey 19:57:11 -!- CraigNobbs [~craignobb@96.53.um.no] has joined #canada 19:57:25 <@CCitizen> hi 19:57:26 < CraigNobbs> I'm here, so let's get this party started! =D 19:57:44 < CraigNobbs> who's taking roll? 19:59:57 <@CCitizen> do we have enough people to get quorum here? 20:00:07 < CraigNobbs> Who's all here? 20:00:23 < Niyeaux2> im here 20:00:25 <@CCitizen> I think Travis_McCrea and darknyan and maybe adpaolucci 20:00:41 who 20:00:42 <@adpaolucci> I 20:00:54 sorry 20:00:55 I am 20:01:15 Sorry, doing last-minute things 20:01:21 I meant to type "/who" 20:02:27 How many people got a meeting notice? I heard they went out... 20:02:41 I did 20:03:04 -!- mode/#canada [+o CraigNobbs] by CCitizen 20:03:32 <@CCitizen> adpaolucci, do you got the membership list to check people? 20:03:41 <@adpaolucci> it 20:03:45 <@adpaolucci> is in the dropbox 20:03:59 <@adpaolucci> I'm a little busy to check people 20:05:39 <@CCitizen> ah 20:07:01 sorry, what number or proportion is quorum? I can't find the appropriate document just now 20:07:41 <@CraigNobbs> 15 people if I recall 20:07:56 <@Travis_McCrea> I am here, and I am pretty sure I am a member ;) 20:08:09 -!- mode/#canada [+o phillipsjk] by Travis_McCrea 20:08:25 cool, thanks 20:08:48 if my form went thru, I'm a member too 20:08:59 < Niyeaux2> mine's likely still in the mail 20:09:01 <@CraigNobbs> I don't have access to the dropbox 20:09:59 <@Travis_McCrea> adpaolucci that is a valid point -- you are the only person who can verify people who sent in forms 20:10:20 <@adpaolucci> I still need to digitize them too 20:10:29 <@adpaolucci> shit, I'm not at home with my list 20:10:58 <@CraigNobbs> well.... then, it looks like this meeting is about to be called due to rain 20:11:29 <@adpaolucci> we still have the old list 20:11:29 <@Travis_McCrea> It is up to phillipsjk and CraigNobbs but I would say that -- since we are offering free membership anyway, if a person says they sent in the letter, we can for this meeting recognize them as a member 20:11:37 <@adpaolucci> that is what we ahve been using to auth for 20:11:41 <@Travis_McCrea> I mean they showed up, that's a member to me 20:11:54 <@CraigNobbs> I disagree 20:12:33 <@CCitizen> Alright who is here 20:12:47 *raises hand* 20:12:47 <@CraigNobbs> Nothing in the constitution accounts for that. Until we have them confirmed, they cannot be considered a member 20:12:48 <@Travis_McCrea> yeah first before doing anything let's find out who is here. Doesn't someone have a fancy highlight everyone button? 20:13:08 do "/names #canada" 20:13:29 <@Travis_McCrea> that doesn't work for my client, but you can do it if you have it 20:13:32 ah 20:13:33 <@CraigNobbs> we need to see the registered members who are online and participating strake 20:13:39 <@CraigNobbs> thank though 20:13:39 shall I say the list? 20:13:44 <@Travis_McCrea> strake yeah 20:14:18 [@adpaolucci  ] [ Broken_Syntax] [ JMcleod  ] [ Niyeaux2    ] [ smbs       ] [ XFaCE      ] [@CCitizen     ] [ cypher_      ] [ KindOne  ] [ pappasadrian] [ strake     ] [ Zeroedout  ] [@CraigNobbs   ] [ darknyan     ] [ lcamer on ] [ Postumus   ] [ Teckie     ] [ zz_Darkknow] [@phillipsjk   ] [ davidd       ] [ MarkG    ] [ robban      ] [ thor       ] [@Travis_McCrea] [ DH           ] [ missrobot] [ Roderick    ] [ 20:14:35 <@Travis_McCrea> :P that didn't work very well, it got cut off at Roderick 20:14:36 < JMcleod> present 20:14:39 <@CraigNobbs> all registered members who have recieved their membership numbers, please msg me. 20:14:39 <@phillipsjk> @CraigNobbs strake @Travis_McCrea Postumus lcameron darknyan Broken_Syntax Niyeaux2 KindOne JMcleod pappasadrian thor voronaam DH MononcQc Vanadis arikb cypher_ smbs Roderick Roderick_ @phillipsjk MarkG Niyeaux drew zz_Dark know davidd @adpaolucci Zeroedout XFaCE Teckie scshunt missrobot robban jlamothe @CCitizen trailblazer azend 20:14:47 <@Travis_McCrea> there we go 20:14:51 <@phillipsjk> who is all here? 20:14:54 <@CraigNobbs> all registered members who have recieved their membership numbers, please msg me. 20:15:22 < JMcleod> adpaolucci: did you get my signatures for EC? 20:15:46 <@adpaolucci> yep 20:15:51 <@phillipsjk> Does somebody have a copy of the agenda? 20:16:03 It's on a etherpad somewhere. 20:16:33 <@Travis_McCrea> CraigNobbs do you have access to the member list now? 20:16:36 <@CraigNobbs> all registered members who have recieved their membership numbers, please msg me. 20:16:54 <@CraigNobbs> no, but I'll collect names and see if we meet quorum first. 20:17:06 -!- darknyan [webchat@d32-32-72-6.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Web client closed] 20:17:21 <@Travis_McCrea> I have the list 20:17:24 <@CraigNobbs> We can log into the Dropbox accoutn via the website and pull the list, if whomever has access msgs me the username and password 20:17:39 over SSL I should hope 20:17:59 <@Travis_McCrea> CraigNobbs you create your own dropbox account and then we link you in 20:18:13 <@Travis_McCrea> strake you have a query btw 20:18:19 oh sorry 20:18:28 not used to this client 20:19:07 -!- darknyan [~darknyan@d32-32-72-6.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #canada 20:20:41 <@Travis_McCrea> CraigNobbs how many are we ate? 20:20:43 <@Travis_McCrea> at* 20:21:57 <@CraigNobbs> 5 20:23:26 <@Travis_McCrea> darknyan CCitizen adpaolucci phillipsjk JMcleod Travis_McCrea and CraigNobbs  have all indicated they are here  :P so two just were not paying attention 20:23:26 gah.. no mail about a member number 20:23:45 <@adpaolucci> I'm balls deep in devcot right now 20:23:47 <@Travis_McCrea> thor you have been a member for a long time 20:23:49 <@adpaolucci> soso ya 20:23:52 yeah 20:23:59 <@Travis_McCrea> you are good 20:24:06 <@Travis_McCrea> give him your email address 20:24:09 -!- webchat_8690 [webchat@i5815628zn29441g1.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #canada 20:24:24 how will we get our number if we sent a form? e-mail? paper mail? 20:24:26 <@Travis_McCrea> thor btw have you mailed in your membership letter? 20:24:39 i have, almost a week ago 20:24:41 <@Travis_McCrea> strake probably a paper letter? 20:24:45 <@Travis_McCrea> sweet! 20:24:54 <@Travis_McCrea> :P we haven't got to that point yet 20:25:05 i gave rlim some cash as well :D 20:25:06 @Travis_McCrea thanks 20:25:17 I sent in about 6 or so signatures. Ran out of postage in between, hopefully you got it now. 20:25:49 -!- webchat_7027 [webchat@r72912661b95042z2.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #canada 20:26:47 It was hard to find anyone else able to sign the necessary paperwork around here 20:26:59 <@Travis_McCrea> pappasadrian lol that is fair 20:27:03 <@Travis_McCrea> parents? 20:27:15 <@Travis_McCrea> you must have got your Canadianism somewhere, eh? 20:27:32 well, my dad has canadian citizenship, but he doesnt really approve of my pirate-ism 20:27:37 <@Travis_McCrea> :( 20:27:49 -!- tvelocity [~tony@2a01:e35:2434:hspq:ziov:hluq:snop:wtwg] has joined #canada 20:27:53 oh well 20:27:55 @pappasadrian "pirate-ism"? 20:28:15 sounds like discrimination by piracy 20:28:18 piratism, if you prefer :P 20:28:23 we ought to have an official policy. 20:28:45 discrimination based on ownership of legitimate copies 20:28:46 ahoy our canadian brethren 20:28:51 i've had that once 20:28:56 :D 20:28:57 oh? 20:29:09 for pirated music 20:29:10 avast! 20:29:22 which way? 20:29:30 -!- webchat_3322 [webchat@i5815628zn29441g1.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #canada 20:29:32 i didnt have the "originals" 20:29:43 so i was killing the industry and all that 20:29:47 -!- webchat_6795 [webchat@hjn-293-107-31.eastlink.ca] has joined #canada 20:29:52 heh 20:29:55 thankfully, i have some counter arguments to that :P 20:30:23 yes 20:30:40 and even if you were 20:30:54 <@Travis_McCrea> Can I get a quick show of hands of members who are "new" to the party and when they mailed in their membership -- that was their first time joining the party? 20:31:05 -!- webchat_9285 [webchat@wtradk6892c-kf230-60-3678494040.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #canada 20:31:06 < Niyeaux2> that'd be me 20:31:07 -!- webchat_7569 [webchat@85-86-108-253.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #canada 20:31:13 -!- straemer [~straemer@tijn-73-026-089-568.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #canada 20:31:15 http://harmful.cat-v.org/economics/intellectual_property/failed_business_model.jpg 20:31:18 welcome Niyeaux :D 20:31:19 < webchat_7569> Hello all 20:31:23 <@Travis_McCrea> hello webchat_7569 20:31:42 < webchat_3322> o/ 20:31:49 <@Travis_McCrea> and webchat_3322 20:32:02 < webchat_9285> HI 20:32:04 <@Travis_McCrea> you can use "/nick username" to change it 20:32:08 -!- webchat_8924 [webchat@l031560683002806l.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #canada 20:32:09 o/ 20:32:11 < webchat_7569> just got to quickly look up the instructions for this thing after coming in the room. 20:32:12 <@Travis_McCrea> and you webchat_9285 :P 20:32:13 -!- webchat_8924 is now known as MasterBaud 20:32:14 -!- webchat_9285 is now known as sangoku116qc 20:32:18 about 6 weeks ago 20:32:20 -!- webchat_5342 [webchat@o8489s86s8lem6217.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #canada 20:32:30 I didn't use an IRC for years haha 20:32:43 IRC never dies :D 20:32:50 tRUE 20:32:51 < webchat_3322> i haven't been on this channel for years 20:32:53 -!- webchat_7569 is now known as RobertCentric 20:32:57 < Niyeaux2> we definitely have 15, if we're counting people who have sent forms in but don't have member numbers yet 20:32:57 < RobertCentric> Thanks 20:33:07 <@Travis_McCrea> So before you guys came in, I was asking if anyone here has signed up for membership with the party by mailing us a form. 20:33:28 < RobertCentric> I was wondering if I could fax it. 20:33:32 < webchat_3322> whose the leader now? 20:33:35 <@Travis_McCrea> Has to be original 20:33:36 <@Travis_McCrea> :( 20:33:40 <@Travis_McCrea> webchat_3322 that would be me 20:33:40 < MasterBaud> ah IRC ..... :) 20:33:42 < RobertCentric> Ah 20:33:42 What does becoming a member entail? 20:33:49 < webchat_3322> oh! congrats travis 20:33:55 < webchat_3322> what happened to the old one? jake? 20:34:01 < webchat_3322> and mikkel 20:34:01 @straemer signing a form and sending 5$ 20:34:04 <@Travis_McCrea> :( tragic skiing accident 20:34:09 <@Travis_McCrea> <80> no thats not true, and is horrible 20:34:12 -!- webchat_5342 [webchat@o8489s86s8lem6217.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:34:16 < webchat_3322> it is 20:34:33 -!- webchat_1622 [webchat@50.68.iy.hs] has joined #canada 20:34:34 <@Travis_McCrea> They are still around from time to time 20:34:36 -!- webchat_1622 [webchat@50.68.iy.hs] has quit [Client Quit] 20:34:40 < webchat_3322> fun 20:34:47 sorry 20:34:50 < webchat_3322> and stephane? 20:34:51 sending the form too, with th 5$ 20:35:06 <@Travis_McCrea> strake the $5 isn't actually required, it just gives you a whole year instead of 6mo 20:35:12 <@Travis_McCrea> webchat_3322 he is around less, but we email sometimes 20:35:20 -!- webchat_8690 [webchat@i5815628zn29441g1.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:20 ah, sorry, forgot that 20:35:24 I'm currently doing an internship in the US, so I'll wait until I'm back in Canada to do that then 20:35:25 < webchat_3322> hmm 20:35:34 -!- webchat_2055 [webchat@fgff-09-956-486-08.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #canada 20:35:36 Is it possible to make internet free or at a lower price? 20:35:39 < webchat_3322> why are you guys losing your political status? 20:35:41 <@Travis_McCrea> straemer we actually really need these signatures before the 1st 20:35:52 -!- webchat_7898 [webchat@24.52.puo.wrl] has joined #canada 20:35:57 < Niyeaux2> we're not losing it, you just need to re-submit every three years 20:36:02 < Niyeaux2> all parties do 20:36:03 @Travis_McCrea of June? 20:36:12 yes 20:36:15 < webchat_3322> ahh 20:36:18 < webchat_3322> a little harder this time eh? 20:36:24 < webchat_7898> i sent my sig in 20:36:28 <@Travis_McCrea> webchat_3322 every few years a party has to show ~300 members are members of the party otherwise we lose our status and have to give all of our money that we have in our account to Elections Canada 20:36:30 @sangoku116qc yes, and I have an idea 20:36:39 <@Travis_McCrea> strake yes 20:36:44 thanks 20:36:44 Alright, I'll see what I can do then 20:36:48 < webchat_3322> huh 20:36:49 <@Travis_McCrea> <3 thanks 20:37:06 @strake cool :) 20:37:09 < MasterBaud> how many members are you at atm ? 20:37:22 <@Travis_McCrea> Who have sent in their forms: close to 140 I believe? 20:37:29 < webchat_3322> so not even half way? 20:37:30 < webchat_3322> wow 20:37:35 <@Travis_McCrea> i135 20:37:44 < RobertCentric> I need to send mine in still. 20:37:55 I hope the pirate party will stay alive. We need it. 20:37:59 <@Travis_McCrea> webchat_3322 yes well we are going to do some on the ground campaigning in Toronto and other places which should help 20:38:10 cool. anywhere else? 20:38:15 < webchat_7898> I could volunteer my time in Ottawa 20:38:18 <@Travis_McCrea> :) anyone who wants to get their friends and family to help would be awesome. 20:38:28 <@Travis_McCrea> ^For signatures, not canvassing, though that too 20:38:29 I could do the same, also in Ottawa 20:38:36 <@Travis_McCrea> strake umm the Vancouver guys said they might do something 20:38:44 -!- webchat_3322 [webchat@i5815628zn29441g1.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Web client closed] 20:38:45 I'm in Quebec city. 20:38:46 ah 20:38:49 <@Travis_McCrea> We have quite a few members in Ottawa 20:38:49 -!- webchat_2055 [webchat@fgff-09-956-486-08.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:38:54 < Niyeaux2> who are the other vancouver guys? 20:39:05 It's 250 signatures, 300 is just a estimate to compensate for bad signatures. 20:39:06 <@CraigNobbs> I am one 20:39:22 ah, safety factor (^_^) 20:39:24 < RobertCentric> Bad signatures? 20:39:35 yeah, like when PGP says "bad signature" 20:39:37 < MasterBaud> is there an electronic means to sign up ? I have only found a pdf that has to be mailed in so far 20:39:38 <@Travis_McCrea> RobertCentric people who are not Canadian, people who didn't fill out the form properly, etc 20:39:51 <@Travis_McCrea> MasterBaud thats all we have right now, it's an elections canada requirement 20:39:54 -!- webchat_9096 [webchat@14-627-569-11.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #canada 20:40:00 < RobertCentric> Ah, understanding now. 20:40:06 < MasterBaud> ahh archaic system 20:40:12 < MasterBaud> I'll get on it 20:40:19 < Niyeaux2> welcome to dealing with the government 20:40:20 < Niyeaux2> lol 20:40:21 In 2015, I'll have the right to vote for the first time. :) 20:40:28 <@Travis_McCrea> Woot! 20:40:30 < MasterBaud> yup our gov't is a backwards mess 20:40:41 < MasterBaud> better than most but still old and crusty 20:40:55 yep, and it's starting to smell bad 20:41:01 <@Travis_McCrea> CraigNobbs did you ever find the agenda? 20:41:21 * Travis_McCrea has to refrain from making a Christy Clark reference 20:41:56 @sangoku116qc or earlier if Pirates win (^_^) 20:42:20 <@CraigNobbs> no, I'm still waiting to have my dropbox accoutn linked 20:42:22 <@phillipsjk> I assume it was linked in the e-mail I didn't receive. 20:42:24 < MasterBaud> christy tried to look cool by being on the fox this morning 20:42:34 It's because I'm not 18 yet. 20:42:36 < MasterBaud> was fairly sad 20:43:02 @sangoku116qc I know: https://policy.pirateparty.ca/votes-at-16/ 20:43:07 <@Travis_McCrea> oh we did get an email because it was the one that had the no subject line because of trailblazer ;) 20:43:08 :) 20:43:32 I feel like voting eligibility should be moreso based on taking some sort of high-school level political science course than age 20:43:48 I saw this policy and it's a good idea because we're mature at 16. 20:43:53 <@CraigNobbs> lol... that would then discount many citizens over 18 XD 20:44:01 <@Travis_McCrea> The only thing we had to discuss tonight was Craigs amendment, which we couldn't do anything about tonight anyway (it just would be a notice) 20:44:01 We can make our own opinions. 20:44:08 < MasterBaud> just wait until you get older 2 years will feel like 2 months :P 20:44:13 -!- oxpirate [~anon@66.18.wpo.olg] has joined #canada 20:44:15 @straemer no, it should be a test of basic knowledge of how it works. 20:44:16 well you'd have to roll it in, you obviously couldn't just implement it hard and fast 20:44:20 <@Travis_McCrea> I think many citizens over 16 discount themselves 20:44:58 < RobertCentric> I think many voters discount their vote. 20:45:01 -!- webchat_5858 [webchat@ozgwdwvyrc458.189-17-55.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #canada 20:45:17 I think the system discounts many votes. 20:45:23 RobertCentric, ya, we typically get what? 20% voter turnout? 20:45:37 more than that, but poor 20:45:40 <@Travis_McCrea> Thats why we need proportional representation of some kind 20:46:06 < MasterBaud> alot of that is because it doesn't matter who get's in, overall they all play the same game. 20:46:08 no. that enshrines partisan politics 20:46:24 <@Travis_McCrea> strake only list systems 20:46:27 <@Travis_McCrea> you can have STV 20:46:36 < MasterBaud> popular party votes that is. 20:46:54 -!- infoC [webchat@ozgwdwvyrc458.189-17-55.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #canada 20:46:57 < MasterBaud> not saying it's right, just how people think 20:46:57 ah 20:47:19 we could just rank choices in a one-MP riding 20:47:23 it would be simpler 20:47:42 oh sorry, that's a type of STV 20:47:44 Do you think we can change prejudices over pirates? 20:47:48 Not going to happen any time soon. People don't want to be bothered learning a new system 20:48:00 < RobertCentric> Two things I can see are needed. Vote reform -- how votes count. and Public consultation before pay raises. Damn well wish I could vote myself a raise. 20:48:02 most aren't bothered to use the one we have 20:48:09 < MasterBaud> nope not as long as the baby boomers are alive 20:48:20 what time is the meeting supposed to start? 20:48:35 @RobertCentric ha! actually, I once had the idea to make every MP's pay the mean of all Canadians 20:48:36 Well the topic says 8EST 20:48:40 -!- webchat_9096 [webchat@14-627-569-11.sktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:41 yes indeed 20:48:44 <@Travis_McCrea> In the US they have a law that if congress gives itself a pay raise, only the next congress can get it 20:48:55 (go go gadget timezone converter) 20:49:02 @Travis_McCrea win 20:49:04 <@Travis_McCrea> 49 minutes ago 20:49:06 <@Travis_McCrea> pappasadrian ^ 20:49:09 < RobertCentric> @strake, I've heard that one before, and it's not a bad idea. 20:49:47 strake, would be better to make it the median 20:49:57 yes, true 20:50:09 -!- mikkidog [~william@65.95.vx.xpm] has joined #canada 20:50:19 <@Travis_McCrea> When I was running for MP I said that they should get a pay cut, and while part of the sitting MPs response was a lie (that her total amount was less than minimum wage, because of the hours she put in, which isn't true) s he was saying that if you don't pay MPs enough then the calibre of people who are willing to do it would decrease 20:50:27 <@Travis_McCrea> not saying that I buy that, but I think it's a valid argument 20:50:59 < MasterBaud> valid argument but the system of pay raise is broken 20:51:00 < webchat_7898> I highly doubt that the calibre of people would decrease. 20:51:04 < RobertCentric> Strake, straemer, definitely would have to be some scale as to the well being of the riding... but maybe some caps. 20:51:06 < JMcleod> The calibre is terrible right now, so its not a valid argument 20:51:15 < webchat_7898> We would get a cliber of people who are not interested in money. 20:51:17 -!- avliet [~avliet@m600882on9k7u0085.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #canada 20:51:22 <@Travis_McCrea> Like an economist or a doctor might not run, because they are getting paid so much better outside of politics that it wouldn't be worth their time or they would possibly even go broke with the pay cut... 20:51:22 <@CraigNobbs> CALL TO ORDER 20:51:26 Travis_McCrea, wouldn't the calibre of people increase if anything? Because there would be less people that are just in it for the money 20:51:35 <@CraigNobbs> QUITE IN THE ROOM PLEASE 20:51:48 < RobertCentric> Do people who do jobs for the pay make good workers? 20:51:56 <@CraigNobbs> PLEASE TAKE NON MEETING DISCUSSIONS TO #RIFFRAFF 20:52:26 have we a quorum? 20:52:51 <@adpaolucci> Craig, if you use all caps again I swear to fucking god. Be an adult and tage the start of the line with something along the lines of 20:52:51 <@adpaolucci> [GM-CHAIR] Call to order. 20:53:02 [Users #canada] 20:53:02 [@adpaolucci  ] [ cypher_ ] [ lcameron  ] [ pappasadrian ] [ straemer    ] [ webchat_6795] 20:53:02 [@CCitizen    ] [ darknyan] [ MarkG     ] [ Postumus     ] [ strake      ] [ webchat_7027] 20:53:02 [@CraigNobbs  ] [ davidd  ] [ MasterBaud] [ robban       ] [ Teckie      ] [ webchat_7898] 20:53:02 [@phillipsjk  ] [ DH      ] [ mikkidog  ] [ RobertCentric] [ thor        ] [ XFaCE       ] 20:53:02 [@Travis_McCrea] [ drew   ] [ missrobot ] [ Roderick     ] [ trailblazer ] [ Zeroedout   ] 20:53:02 [ arikb       ] [ infoC   ] [ MononcQc  ] [ Roderick_    ] [ tvelocity   ] [ zz_Darkknow ] 20:53:02 [ avliet      ] [ jlamothe] [ Niyeaux   ] [ sangoku116qc ] [ Vanadis     ] 20:53:02 [ azend       ] [ JMcleod ] [ Niyeaux2  ] [ scshunt      ] [ voronaam    ] 20:53:02 [ Broken_Syntax] [ KindOne ] [ oxpirate ] [ smbs         ] [ webchat_5858] 20:53:02 -!- Irssi: #canada: Total of 51 nicks [5 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 46 normal] 20:53:03 <@CraigNobbs> NO 20:53:05 <@CraigNobbs> =) 20:53:09 <@adpaolucci> *ta 20:53:17 -!- CraigNobbs was kicked from #canada by adpaolucci [Kindergarten is elsewhere!] 20:53:17 -!- CraigNobbs [~craignobb@96.53.um.no] has joined #canada 20:53:21 <@adpaolucci> *cough* 20:53:30 < CraigNobbs> funny 20:53:35 < MasterBaud> wow good place and time to sort out procedure.... 20:53:36 -!- webchat_9175 [webchat@ljexsah-461-3-92-316.w80-94.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #canada 20:53:39 <@Travis_McCrea> Okay guys, seriously. 20:54:02 < MasterBaud> that was less than impressive 20:54:05 <@phillipsjk> Non-meeting discussion is actually supposed to be in #canada-riffraff now. 20:54:20 < CraigNobbs> For those members who have not yet confirmed their presence, please message Travis_McCrea 20:54:58 < CraigNobbs> Travis will confirm if we make quorum tonight 20:55:16 <@phillipsjk> webchat_9175 CraigNobbs avliet mikkidog infoC webchat_5858 oxpirate webchat_7898 MasterBaud straemer RobertCentric sangoku116qc webchat_6795 tvelocity webchat_7027 darknyan strake @Travis_McCrea Postumus lcameron Broken_Syn tax Niyeaux2 KindOne JMcleod pappasadrian thor voronaam DH MononcQc Vanadis arikb cypher_ smbs Roderick Roderick_ @phillipsjk MarkG Niyeaux drew zz_Darkknow davidd @adpaolucci Zero 20:55:16 <@phillipsjk> edout XFaCE Teckie scshunt missrobot robban 20:55:29 < JMcleod> WHAT!!???!?!?!?!!! 20:55:58 <@phillipsjk>  For those members who have not yet confirmed their presence, please message Travis_McCrea 20:57:15 <@Travis_McCrea> for those who are new to IRC just type /query Travis_McCrea 20:57:30 -!- MasterBaud [webchat@l031560683002806l.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [] 20:57:30 How are you going to make money if you win the next elections 20:57:58 /join #canada-riffraff 20:58:05 for irrelevant stuff, please 20:58:52 -!- mode/#canada [+v scshunt] by Travis_McCrea 20:58:53 -!- mode/#canada [+v thor] by Travis_McCrea 20:59:01 -!- mode/#canada [+v Niyeaux2] by Travis_McCrea 20:59:04 -!- mode/#canada [+v mikkidog] by Travis_McCrea 20:59:22 -!- mode/#canada [+v infoC] by Travis_McCrea 20:59:37 -!- mode/#canada [+v oxpirate] by Travis_McCrea 20:59:40 -!- mode/#canada [+v JMcleod] by Travis_McCrea 20:59:49 -!- mode/#canada [+v pappasadrian] by Travis_McCrea 20:59:54 -!- mode/#canada [+v phillipsjk] by Travis_McCrea 21:00:01 -!- mode/#canada [+v CCitizen] by Travis_McCrea 21:00:04 -!- mode/#canada [+v adpaolucci] by Travis_McCrea 21:00:09 -!- mode/#canada [+v CraigNobbs] by Travis_McCrea 21:00:26 -!- mode/#canada [+v avliet] by Travis_McCrea 21:00:29 -!- mode/#canada [+v lcameron] by Travis_McCrea 21:00:40 [Users #canada] 21:00:40 [@adpaolucci  ] [+mikkidog     ] [ cypher_  ] [ MononcQc     ] [ straemer    ] [ webchat_7027] 21:00:40 [@CCitizen    ] [+Niyeaux2     ] [ darknyan ] [ Niyeaux      ] [ strake      ] [ webchat_7898] 21:00:40 [@phillipsjk  ] [+oxpirate     ] [ davidd   ] [ Postumus     ] [ Teckie      ] [ webchat_9175] 21:00:40 [@Travis_McCrea] [+pappasadrian ] [ DH      ] [ robban       ] [ trailblazer ] [ XFaCE       ] 21:00:40 [+avliet      ] [+scshunt      ] [ drew     ] [ RobertCentric] [ tvelocity   ] [ Zeroedout   ] 21:00:40 [+CraigNobbs  ] [+thor         ] [ jlamothe ] [ Roderick     ] [ Vanadis     ] [ zz_Darkknow ] 21:00:40 [+infoC       ] [ arikb        ] [ KindOne  ] [ Roderick_    ] [ voronaam    ] 21:00:40 [+JMcleod     ] [ azend        ] [ MarkG    ] [ sangoku116qc ] [ webchat_5858] 21:00:40 [+lcameron    ] [ Broken_Syntax] [ missrobot] [ smbs         ] [ webchat_6795] 21:00:40 -!- Irssi: #canada: Total of 51 nicks [4 ops, 0 halfops, 11 voices, 36 normal] 21:00:43 <+scshunt> I count a quorum 21:00:51 <@Travis_McCrea> I don't believe you do 21:00:55 <@Travis_McCrea> I think it's 15 eh? 21:00:59 What's happening? 21:01:11 -!- webchat_0857 [webchat@s575-680-605-074.home8.cgocable.net] has joined #canada 21:01:26 <@Travis_McCrea> sangoku116qc we are counting the number of people who are members of the party to see if we can start a formal meeting 21:01:40 and if I'm not mistaken, giving them voice 21:01:56 <+pappasadrian> yes, exactly 21:01:59 <+pappasadrian> i count 15 too 21:02:08 ok :) 21:02:16 <+scshunt> if you're a formal member, pm Travis to get signed in 21:02:21 -!- mode/#canada [+o CraigNobbs] by phillipsjk 21:02:21 @Travis_McCrea are you counting yourself? 21:02:34 <@Travis_McCrea> >.> nope 21:02:35 -!- webchat_7027 is now known as rlim_addmode 21:02:37 <@Travis_McCrea> lol that's 15 21:02:42 (^_^) 21:02:42 I am only a supporter who can't vote. 21:02:52 < webchat_0857> goes for me too 21:03:22 <@Travis_McCrea> I have granted all members who have told me they have sent in their forms 1 day of membership with the authority given to me by the political council http://cl.ly/OznU until their forms can be successfully processed and m ember number can be given to them by next meeting 21:03:26 -!- RobertCentric [webchat@85-86-108-253.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 21:03:35 Me and my friends want to make a pirate party at school for the school elections next year 21:03:47 <+oxpirate> Speaking of forms what is our to-date total? 21:03:49 <+scshunt> haha nice 21:03:50 <+thor> sangoku116qc / webchat_0857: that's cool, join us in #canada-riffraff to chat. 21:03:51 <+scshunt> sangoku116qc: what school? 21:03:53 <+scshunt> oh right 21:03:56 <+scshunt> scratch that 21:03:58 <+scshunt> move to riffraff 21:04:24 -!- straemer [~straemer@tijn-73-026-089-568.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:45 -!- straemer [~straemer@tijn-73-026-089-568.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #canada 21:05:06 * oxpirate assuming the pirateparty.ca/helpus isn't accurate up to the second 21:05:11 <@CraigNobbs> brb 21:05:12 -!- CraigNobbs [~craignobb@96.53.um.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05:15 <@Travis_McCrea> I believe that this is phillipsjk meeting, 21:05:28 <@Travis_McCrea> but it seems like Craig was doing it<80> so I will let you guys decide who will chair it 21:05:43 <@Travis_McCrea> but we do have quorum 21:06:02 -!- mode/#canada [+v rlim_addmode] by Travis_McCrea 21:06:41 -!- CraigNobbs [~craignobb@184.65.kko.kyz] has joined #canada 21:07:10 <@Travis_McCrea> CraigNobbs I was saying that I believe it's phillipsjk who should be chairing the meeting, but if you guys have a thing then the meeting is all yours (he isn't replying anyway) 21:08:20 <@phillipsjk> We are debating whether we actually have quorum. 21:08:31 -!- Wmcclus [webchat@108.162.pwo.lmo] has joined #canada 21:08:57 < Wmcclus> Hey guys. First time at one of these 21:09:01 < CraigNobbs> yes, one moment please. 21:09:07 < Wmcclus> Won osme bumper stickers a while ago though. 21:09:09 < Wmcclus> *some 21:09:33 <@Travis_McCrea> phillipsjk how do you figure you don't? 21:09:53 < CraigNobbs> please take all extraneous discussions to #canada-riffraff 21:11:15 < CraigNobbs> We are currently researching and discussing if you have that power as President to award 1-day memberships 21:11:25 <@Travis_McCrea> (as leader) 21:11:32 < CraigNobbs> correct 21:11:35 <@Travis_McCrea> The Party may award two types of free membership to individuals by approval of a General Meeting, Executive Board or Political Council (depending on the type of free membership granted) for a period of up to 2 years. 21:11:57 <+pappasadrian> 1 day < 2 years 21:12:01 <+pappasadrian> so it should be okay 21:12:05 < CraigNobbs> keep reading 21:12:05 on Earth at least 21:12:06 <@Travis_McCrea> as per the vote held by the PC they have given that authority to me to act on their behalf, and it says clearly "up to 2 years" 21:12:11 < CraigNobbs> that's taking it out of context 21:12:37 <@Travis_McCrea> Can you show what part is hanging you up? 21:12:50 <@Travis_McCrea> Because if it's the "fee" currently the fee to join the party is $0 for up to 6 months 21:13:10 <+pappasadrian> what if we start the meeting without the new members, and have a quick vote to see if we want them to participate? 21:13:20 <@Travis_McCrea> pappasadrian we can't without the new members we don't have quorum 21:13:27 < CraigNobbs> we don't make quorum without the new members 21:13:28 <+pappasadrian> ah 21:13:37 -!- webchat_6795 [webchat@hjn-293-107-31.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: Web client closed] 21:14:01 <+pappasadrian> i think we could get quorum for an emergency PC irc meeting 21:14:05 -!- Channel6 [~blah@us.pirate] has joined #canada 21:14:17 <+scshunt> I, for one, am not going to get into procedural arguments about whether or not PC's decision was valid 21:14:50 <+scshunt> I think that the correct way to handle this, however, would be for the President to call the meeting to order, and then if someone objects a point of order could be made and an appeal heard, if necessary 21:15:15 <@phillipsjk> Thanks, scshunt :) 21:15:28 Are there any members not in attendance that can proxy a vote or something like that? 21:15:35 <@Travis_McCrea> Really it's phillipsjk's call at the end of the day<80> but if he doesn't recognize my authority to give free memberships right now, then that would also mean that anyone who gets free membership through my "decre e" in sending in their membership in the mail would also have to be denied their membership 21:15:38 <@Travis_McCrea> since it was given in the same way 21:16:04 <@phillipsjk> I call the meeting to order. I see no problem with the PC vote unless somebody claims it did not happen. 21:16:06 < CraigNobbs> Not necissarily 21:16:16 <@Travis_McCrea> Thanks phillipsjk for being reasonable 21:16:49 <@phillipsjk> Does anybody have a copy of the agenda? 21:16:54 <@Travis_McCrea> I do 21:17:25 <@phillipsjk> Can you post it please, of if too long, a link? 21:17:34 < CraigNobbs> I see the PC vote as valid in that the vote was intended to allow the 6 month free membership for those who would sign the Elections Canada forms. I don't see it allowing Travis to grant 1-day memberships. 21:17:41 <@Travis_McCrea> https://www.piratepad.ca/p/rd0QXSCz5G 21:18:38 <@Travis_McCrea> CraigNobbs no that wasn't what it was intended for, it was intended for me to give out memberships that I deem worthy. http://cl.ly/OznU Read it again, it doesn't even mention this campaign<80> and it says "until revoked" 21:18:50 <@Travis_McCrea> You are not reading the motion. 21:19:02 < CraigNobbs> yes, but what is not pictured is the discussion beside it 21:19:18 <+scshunt> Point of order, Mr. President, unless there's a motion such as a point of order being brought before the meeting, there shouldn't be a discussion of the elgibility of anyone to vote. 21:19:22 <@Travis_McCrea> it doesn't matter what the discussion is, it's about the motion. 21:19:33 <@Travis_McCrea> anyway, it doesn't matter 21:19:39 <+Niyeaux2> you voted on the motion, not the tertiary discussion 21:19:45 otherwise every motion would mean "first post!" 21:19:46 <+oxpirate> If I may ask are there any objections specifically to Travis being delegated the authority to hand out memberships, or is the concern here purely about procedure? 21:20:35 <@Travis_McCrea> lol strake 21:21:13 < CraigNobbs> The authority to hand out anything other than the intended 6 month memberships for signing the Elections Canada forms is in question. 21:21:28 < CraigNobbs> *free 6 month... 21:21:36 <@Travis_McCrea> CraigNobbs are you making a formal objection to phillipsjk? 21:21:37 <@phillipsjk> Oxpirate: I think we can add that to the agenda. 21:21:44 <@Travis_McCrea> if not we need to carry on 21:23:00 <@phillipsjk> Does anybody want to add anything to the agenda before we start the meeting? 21:23:14 <+oxpirate> I think then that perhaps we should weigh whether or not the affect on PPCA is positive or negative, and with increased participation being a likely prospect of free memberships, I think the overall effect is benefitial. 21:23:15 < CraigNobbs> If it is required, then yes. I object to the 1-day memberships being handed out. Until properly confirmed with the forms for Elections Canada, as was the requirement for the free 6 month membership, there is a required vot e from the PC, EB, or a vote of the GM 21:23:20 <@Travis_McCrea> Also just to shut up CraigNobbs here is the discussion; http://cl.ly/OzEY http://cl.ly/OzoD http://cl.ly/OzDy http://cl.ly/OzMz 21:23:27 <@Travis_McCrea> (it's read bottom up) 21:23:45 <@Travis_McCrea> You have no leg to stand on my friend 21:23:52 <+Niyeaux2> the motion says "the power to grant free memberships." there's no additional conditions upon that power. that is the motion you voted on and passed. now can we get on with it? 21:24:12 <@Travis_McCrea> CCitizen and oxpirate both took part in the discussion 21:24:23 < CraigNobbs> Travis_McCrea, you are out of order. There is a required decorum for these proceedings 21:24:58 <+pappasadrian> if i may interfere 21:25:27 <+pappasadrian> there are enough PC members around to clarify the situation 21:25:30 <+pappasadrian> and their intentions 21:25:49 -!- jlamothe [~jlamothe@ceypbahq.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:26:10 ? 21:26:11 <@Travis_McCrea> pappasadrian is also a member of the PC. We have enough people here to call an emergency PC vote and re-affirm ourselves if you really want. The point is that it is exactly as it looks. 21:26:23 <+scshunt> phillipsjk: Mr. President, can we please move on? 21:26:34 <+pappasadrian> I, for one, understood that we gave Travis authority to do whatever he wanted with memberships, in order to get more signatures, and therefore, more members 21:26:58 <@CCitizen> I would like to note that the power to grant free memberships is given to the Political Council as well as the Executive Board and General Meeting and that power has been delegated by the PC to the Leader of the party. There were no conditions on the power when the motion was given. 21:27:05 I do believe emergency PC members require 24 hours notice. 21:27:14 Not to be a pain in the buttocks. 21:27:18 <+pappasadrian> darknyan: indeed 21:27:19 <@Travis_McCrea> lol we don't need it anyway 21:27:21 <@Travis_McCrea> we already voted 21:27:27 My point. 21:27:32 <@Travis_McCrea> I forgot darknyan was also there and voted 21:27:47 so... 21:27:48 <+Niyeaux2> literally everyone except CraigNobbs is in agreement about this. let's move on. 21:28:10 < CraigNobbs> The boards cannot decide to skip the requirements of the Constitution and delegate the powers to any one individual 21:28:23 I believe he's calling it a autocratic power. 21:28:25 <@Travis_McCrea> phillipsjk please end this 21:28:33 < CraigNobbs> thus, if so pushed, I will object to the whole motion 21:28:46 <+pappasadrian> we could approach it differently 21:28:51 <@Travis_McCrea> you don't have the authority, you are not in the PC 21:28:54 <@phillipsjk> Whos is taking minutes? I would like CraigNobbs' objection noted. 21:28:58 <+oxpirate> With all due respect, I don't understand what benefit this discussion brings to ppca. 21:29:05 <+scshunt> Travis_McCrea: he could make a point of order that they are not valid members 21:29:06 <+pappasadrian> is falkvinge's pirate wheel part of our policy/platform? 21:29:07 <+scshunt> however 21:29:10 Ladies and gentlemen. 21:29:10 <+scshunt> absent such a point of order 21:29:13 May I say something. 21:29:15 <@CCitizen> Now can we get over this and get to the important business 21:29:15 <+scshunt> can we please all be quiet 21:29:24 <@phillipsjk> **** ORDER PLEASE **** 21:30:17 <@phillipsjk> The motion now under discussion is the approval of the agenda. 21:30:42 <@phillipsjk> https://www.piratepad.ca/p/rd0QXSCz5G 21:30:51 <@phillipsjk> Is there any additions? 21:30:54 sorry, just to make sure 21:30:55 <+scshunt> a question 21:30:56 are we members? 21:30:59 <@Travis_McCrea> strake yes 21:31:03 thanks 21:31:11 -!- mode/#canada [+v strake] by Travis_McCrea 21:31:22 <+scshunt> phillipsjk: are motions in order under new business if not specifically listed on the agenda? 21:31:45 <@phillipsjk> Probably. 21:31:47 < CraigNobbs> I would like to make a point of order that the "new" members that Travis approved without the proper formalities are not members and are not entitled to vote or be counted towards theq quorum. 21:32:01 <+oxpirate> I wanted to motion that in the future social media and party members officially begin collecting the elections canada forms one year in advance. 21:32:11 <+oxpirate> EC 20036-C I mean. 21:32:43 <@Travis_McCrea> point of order oxpirate I think we need to approve this agenda 21:32:52 <+oxpirate> orite 21:32:59 <@Travis_McCrea> CraigNobbs your objection was noted, but not enforced 21:33:05 <@Travis_McCrea> phillipsjk overrode you 21:33:39 <+scshunt> Travis_McCrea: He hadn't made a poitn of order. The President should rule on the point of order, and whoever is taking it into the minutes should record both the point of order and the ruling :) 21:33:57 <+pappasadrian> sigh 21:34:04 <@Travis_McCrea> also please read https://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/Constitution_2012-06-20#VII.4_Powers_.26_Duties CraigNobbs the last paragraph 21:36:01 <@Travis_McCrea> phillipsjk do we need to vote to approve the agenda or do we just call it approved? 21:36:20 -!- jlamothe [~jlamothe@ceypbahq.net] has joined #canada 21:36:42 < CraigNobbs> I would like to enter a motion that the delegation of power given to Travis_McCrea is too broad and excessive and should be revoked. 21:36:50 -!- jlamothe is now known as Guest19165 21:37:08 <@phillipsjk> CraigNobbs, you are interrupting your own point of order. 21:38:13 < CraigNobbs> my appologies 21:39:00 [Users #canada] 21:39:00 [@adpaolucci   ] [+Niyeaux2    ] [ Broken_Syntax] [ KindOne  ] [ sangoku116qc] [ webchat_5858] 21:39:00 [@CCitizen    ] [+oxpirate    ] [ Channel6     ] [ MarkG    ] [ smbs        ] [ webchat_7898] 21:39:00 [@phillipsjk  ] [+pappasadrian] [ CraigNobbs   ] [ missrobot] [ straemer    ] [ webchat_9175] 21:39:00 [@Travis_McCrea] [+rlim_addmode] [ cypher_     ] [ MononcQc ] [ Teckie      ] [ Wmcclus     ] 21:39:00 [+avliet      ] [+scshunt     ] [ darknyan     ] [ Niyeaux  ] [ trailblazer ] [ XFaCE       ] 21:39:00 [+infoC       ] [+strake      ] [ davidd       ] [ Postumus ] [ tvelocity   ] [ Zeroedout   ] 21:39:00 [+JMcleod     ] [+thor        ] [ DH           ] [ robban   ] [ Vanadis     ] [ zz_Darkknow ] 21:39:00 [+lcameron    ] [ arikb       ] [ drew         ] [ Roderick ] [ voronaam    ] 21:39:00 [+mikkidog    ] [ azend       ] [ Guest19165   ] [ Roderick_] [ webchat_0857] 21:39:00 -!- Irssi: #canada: Total of 52 nicks [4 ops, 0 halfops, 12 voices, 36 normal] 21:39:01 <@phillipsjk> I am satisfied that Travis McCrea has the authority of grand temporary memberships. As such, the new members count for quorum. 21:39:37 <@phillipsjk> Would you like to add your motion to new business? 21:40:59 < CraigNobbs> yes please 21:42:12 -!- webchat_3001 [webchat@k843938793leo7393.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #canada 21:43:31 <@phillipsjk> Does anybody want to take minutes? 21:43:43 <+strake> we could just log 21:44:04 <@phillipsjk> Ric LIm used to make a summary afterwards. 21:44:12 <+strake> ah 21:44:18 <@Travis_McCrea> rlim_addmode is here but I think he is on his mobile 21:44:26 -!- danactive [~irc@k843938793leo7393.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #canada 21:44:46 <@Travis_McCrea> I believe as vice president the responsibility would then go to CraigNobbs 21:44:48 <+scshunt> minutes are important 21:44:57 <+scshunt> it doesn't automatically fall to anyone 21:45:16 <+scshunt> it's theoretically possible to reconstruct them from logs, but a pain for someone who wasn't following along 21:45:20 <+scshunt> and I'll be only mildly interested 21:46:19 <@phillipsjk> at the very least, I will save the logs (if back-scroll is not too much). 21:46:50 <+scshunt> my logs are 24h, so I can provide those 21:47:00 <@phillipsjk> On a related note: does anybody have the minutes from last meeting? (March?) 21:47:58 <@Travis_McCrea> https://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/GM_2013-03-20_minutes 21:48:00 <@Travis_McCrea> those? 21:48:40 -!- webchat_3001 [webchat@k843938793leo7393.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:41 <@phillipsjk> Looks like it. The April meeting never met quorum. 21:49:38 <@phillipsjk> Are there any objections to the previous minutes? 21:49:48 <+thor> no 21:50:03 <+strake> not from me 21:50:08 <@Travis_McCrea> NOpe 21:50:11 <@phillipsjk> Is there a motion to approve the minutes? 21:50:16 <@Travis_McCrea> so moved 21:50:42 <@phillipsjk> Second? 21:50:43 < Broken_Syntax> second 21:50:51 -!- straemer [~straemer@tijn-73-026-089-568.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:51:52 <@phillipsjk> The motion under consideration is to approve the last meetings' minutes: https://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/GM_2013-03-20_minutes 21:52:09 <@Travis_McCrea> Aye 21:52:13 <@phillipsjk> Vote "yes" or "No" 21:52:17 -!- darknyan_ [~darknyan@d32-32-72-6.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #canada 21:52:18 <+oxpirate> yes 21:52:20 <+scshunt> yes 21:52:21 <@phillipsjk> (aye is OK too) 21:52:29 < Broken_Syntax> aye 21:52:32 <+strake> aye 21:52:42 <+infoC> aye 21:52:44 <+pappasadrian> abstain (since i was away) 21:53:01 <+strake> oh, we're meant to have been there? 21:53:07 -!- webchat_7834 [webchat@806-62-43-73.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #canada 21:53:10 <+pappasadrian> not necessarily 21:53:13 <+strake> ah 21:53:22 <+pappasadrian> but i cant confirm them, since i wasnt 21:54:03 < Broken_Syntax> (( There is a transcript, but most of us don't read quickly enough to make for an expidient meeting.) 21:54:39 <+strake> ah. I just skimmed it 21:54:58 <@Travis_McCrea> Basically people were elected, people were confirmed<80> life is good 21:55:02 <+lcameron> Aye 21:55:17 <@phillipsjk> adpaolucci CraigNobbs phillipsjk thor avliet infoC JMcleod lcameron mikkidog Niyeaux2 oxpirate pappasadrian rlim_addmode scshunt strake thor 21:55:35 <+JMcleod> abstain 21:55:42 -!- darknyan [~darknyan@d32-32-72-6.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:55:46 -!- webchat_7834 [webchat@806-62-43-73.cpe.distributel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:55:58 <+thor> aye 21:56:18 <@phillipsjk> I count 7 votes, 2 abstentions: the motions is carried. 21:56:44 <+oxpirate> I motion that the collection of the Elections Canada EC 20036-C form  21:56:44 <+oxpirate> begin one year from when it is due, with party leadership initiating 21:56:45 <+oxpirate> the collection and mailing in of forms through social media and other 21:56:47 <@phillipsjk> Are there any Officers' reports? 21:56:53 <@Travis_McCrea> lol 21:57:05 <@Travis_McCrea> your horses oxpirate, hold them 21:57:11 <@Travis_McCrea> phillipsjk I will go 21:57:46 <@phillipsjk> Ok, go. 21:58:14 <@Travis_McCrea> Hey everyone, so this is the first real meeting since being elected leader - to give you a recap of what we have done: The political council has started a letter drive getting everyone to send in their membership form req uired by elections canada. Anyone who has not done that should go to https://pirateparty.ca/helpus 21:58:14 <@CCitizen> We could only start collecting them in January oxpirate 21:58:32 <@Travis_McCrea> Today I just completed an AMA on reddit which you can find here http://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/comments/1eedlq/i_am_travis_mccrea_i_am_trying_to_bring_canadian/ 21:58:40 -!- webchat_9175 [webchat@ljexsah-461-3-92-316.w80-94.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Web client closed] 21:59:06 <@Travis_McCrea> I have been working with FAIR whistleblowers to draft up legislation that we can submit to people in parliament and the press to help protect federal whistleblowers. 21:59:46 <@Travis_McCrea> I have spent about $300 party funds in advertising, roughly half of that on reddit ads which have been highly successful -- they are still running and once they are complete I will make available the statistics on them 22:00:19 <@Travis_McCrea> (Others were Facebook Ads and Google Adwords) 22:01:12 <@Travis_McCrea> I did a radio interview last week for a personal project but Pirate stuff came up. and I have been working with Elections Canada to figure out our signature situation and such. The PC as a whole has moved to loomio and do es things asynchronously which seems to have been a great success. 22:01:26 <@Travis_McCrea> And I think those are all the big things 22:01:46 <@Travis_McCrea> Any of my co-chairs of the PC can chime in if anything big happened that they believe should be noted 22:02:30 <@Travis_McCrea> phillipsjk the floor is yours 22:02:31 <+pappasadrian> (i think the new B&W official logo is worth mentioning) 22:02:34 <@Travis_McCrea> Ohhhh 22:02:58 <@Travis_McCrea> Yes we officially adopted the black and white logo as seen here https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/c20.19.237.237/s160x160/603596_10151602025751438_227685432_n.jpg as our official logo 22:03:10 <@Travis_McCrea> instead of the canada flag logo, and purple is affirmed as our party colour instead of red 22:03:32 <+strake> yay purple! but why no canada flag? 22:03:33 <@Travis_McCrea> ANd I recently updated the website to a new look that wasn't based on the german parties design 22:03:36 <+strake> that seems essential 22:03:39 <+pappasadrian> https://www.dropbox.com/s/ap6sy4uxzhk3a39/Signet-black.png 22:03:44 <+pappasadrian> we also adopted this one 22:03:51 <+infoC> (Can we ask questions?) 22:03:52 <+strake> ah 22:03:54 <@Travis_McCrea> That is our fall back one 22:03:58 <+pappasadrian> yes 22:04:18 <@Travis_McCrea> Like a home jersey and away jersey 22:04:24 <+infoC> what do we mean by "signature situation"? 22:04:26 <@Travis_McCrea> it's up to phillipsjk if we are doing QandA 22:04:30 <+lcameron> +1 for no more german text 22:04:37 <@phillipsjk> sure, go ahead infoC 22:04:39 <+pappasadrian> it was adopted in the "style guide" (whatever that is) 22:04:40 <@Travis_McCrea> infoC we need to have 300 signatures to give to Elections Canada 22:04:55 <+infoC> oh yes, ok I get it sry 22:04:58 <@Travis_McCrea> if we don't have them by the first we will lose our status 22:05:22 < Broken_Syntax> And we have a limited time to acquire them in. To that end we are planning an on-the-ground membership drive in downtown Toronto in the near future, and many of us have been collecting signatures in our communities. 22:05:28 <@Travis_McCrea> OH 22:05:29 <@Travis_McCrea> OH OH 22:05:33 <+infoC> is there an update, is the count on the website good? 22:05:37 <@Travis_McCrea> One last thing thats SUPER MAJOR 22:05:41 <@CCitizen> I also have an update on the fund 22:05:44 <@Travis_McCrea> We approved https://policy.pirateparty.ca 22:05:51 <@CCitizen> infoC, the count on the website is as of last check of the PO Box 22:05:53 <@Travis_McCrea> for temporary use until we refine it section by section 22:06:00 <+infoC> thx 22:06:21 <@Travis_McCrea> lol we have been doing a lot this past month, so it's kinda all rattling in my brain 22:06:48 <@CCitizen> Should I update with the fund information that Ric gave me? 22:07:02 <@Travis_McCrea> I think I am really done now though, if I have anything else I will mention it between motions r something 22:07:05 <@phillipsjk> Was going to if you didn't :) 22:07:20 <@CCitizen> Alright 22:07:39 -!- webchat_7907 [webchat@lbg5-hqnbovwup59-8364694864.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #canada 22:08:18 <@CCitizen> We keep the party funds in a combination of Paypal and a BMO bank account. The following are the balances as of yesterday when the information was prepared. 22:08:23 -!- webchat_7907 [webchat@lbg5-hqnbovwup59-8364694864.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 22:08:27 <@CCitizen> Our Paypal balance stands at $986.81 22:08:28 -!- webchat_4445 [webchat@lbg5-hqnbovwup59-8364694864.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #canada 22:08:44 <@CCitizen> Our BMO Balance stands at $8229.44 22:09:52 <+Niyeaux2> that's a significant amount of money to be handing over to elections canada in two weeks, if we don't get our shit together 22:10:02 <@Travis_McCrea> Exactly 22:10:25 How do I collect signatures? 22:10:32 <@phillipsjk> The "real" deadline is July 2nd, but we also need time to re-mail it all. 22:10:33 [Users #canada] 22:10:33 [@adpaolucci  ] [+Niyeaux2    ] [ Broken_Syntax] [ Guest19165] [ Roderick_   ] [ webchat_4445] 22:10:33 [@CCitizen    ] [+oxpirate    ] [ Channel6     ] [ KindOne   ] [ sangoku116qc] [ webchat_5858] 22:10:33 [@phillipsjk  ] [+pappasadrian] [ CraigNobbs   ] [ MarkG     ] [ smbs        ] [ webchat_7898] 22:10:33 [@Travis_McCrea] [+rlim_addmode] [ cypher_     ] [ missrobot ] [ Teckie      ] [ Wmcclus     ] 22:10:33 [+avliet      ] [+scshunt     ] [ danactive    ] [ MononcQc  ] [ trailblazer ] [ XFaCE       ] 22:10:33 [+infoC       ] [+strake      ] [ darknyan_    ] [ Niyeaux   ] [ tvelocity   ] [ Zeroedout   ] 22:10:33 [+JMcleod     ] [+thor        ] [ davidd       ] [ Postumus  ] [ Vanadis     ] [ zz_Darkknow ] 22:10:33 [+lcameron    ] [ arikb       ] [ DH           ] [ robban    ] [ voronaam    ] 22:10:33 [+mikkidog    ] [ azend       ] [ drew         ] [ Roderick  ] [ webchat_0857] 22:10:33 -!- Irssi: #canada: Total of 52 nicks [4 ops, 0 halfops, 12 voices, 36 normal] 22:10:38 for the Pirate Party of Canada 22:10:44 < Broken_Syntax> www.piratepary.ca/helpus has the form. Simply have them filled out, and mail them in to the address on the same url. 22:10:46 <+pappasadrian> danactive: print the form, have people fill it up, mail it 22:11:01 < Broken_Syntax> https://www.pirateparty.ca/helpus/ 22:11:07 <@CCitizen> We also have some bills coming in for advertising as Travis mentioned 22:11:24 <+pappasadrian> direct link for the form: http://elections.ca/pol/pol/EC20036_c.pdf 22:11:45 < CraigNobbs> We should courier that package instead of mailling it.... We don't want to have that package "lost in the mail". 22:11:48 <+JMcleod> danactive: you also have to be clear that that form will give them 6 months membership. Military cant fill that out for example. 22:11:48 <+oxpirate> July 2nd is a good date. Nice to know we won't stop being a party. 22:11:55 <@CCitizen> We're also in the process of changing our information at our payment processor so we can accept credit card payments again. 22:12:14 <@Travis_McCrea> I don't want to sound like a broken record, but seriously guys from the bottom of my heart this party means a lot to me and I am not ready to start from scratch again. She has a lot of life left to give, but we need our m embers to fight for her. Get your parents to sign it, your friends to sign it, if they can vote, they can sign 22:12:37 <+oxpirate> CraigNobbs: Not including a return address to avoid other descrimination would be a good idea too. 22:13:03 <+strake> mm, that itself may mean discrimination 22:13:23 <+Niyeaux2> couriers do not take return addresses on the package itself, only on the initial order 22:13:24 -!- webchat_4489 [webchat@l8984880239p10817.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #canada 22:13:26 -!- voronaam [~avorona@159.153.gyq.lt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:13:31 <@Travis_McCrea> Actually Elections Canada is really awesome 22:13:33 <@CCitizen> Actually JMcleod I think military can fill it out, they just cant have a position of leadership or importance in the party. Sorta like joining the CPC or Liberals or whatever... you just cant found or run an EDA or run for an MP position or stuff like that 22:13:36 <@Travis_McCrea> They work well with us 22:14:07 <+JMcleod> Oh well thats not how I understood it CCitizen 22:14:09 <@Travis_McCrea> and they are way more than lenient<80> we have (even recently) bent some rules accidentally and they are awesome about it. Basically they say "just don't do it again" 22:14:10 <@CCitizen> We're intending to insure the signatures package for $9000 when we send it to elections canada since that is how much we stand to lose if Canada Post loses our package ;) 22:14:16 <+JMcleod> we should get precisions :P 22:14:25 -!- webchat_4489 [webchat@l8984880239p10817.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:14:32 <+oxpirate> discrimination* 22:14:40 -!- webchat_7898 [webchat@24.52.puo.wrl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:14:49 <+infoC> So we have little over 2 weeks to get 155 new members? 22:15:02 <@Travis_McCrea> Actually I thought it was June but it's july 22:15:08 <+pappasadrian> infoC: that's about right 22:15:09 <@Travis_McCrea> So we have 6 weeks 22:15:14 <@Travis_McCrea> but don't feel that it's any less urgent 22:15:22 <+pappasadrian> Travis_McCrea: it's better to plan as if it's 2 weeks 22:15:23 -!- Jon [webchat@lbg5-hqnbovwup59-8364694864.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #canada 22:15:24 <+infoC> Agreed 22:15:29 <+oxpirate> As long as we continue at the rate we've been going in the last month we'll make it. 22:15:45 <@phillipsjk> June 1 is a good dealine for members to send in their forms. 22:16:32 -!- helenbw [webchat@l8984880239p10817.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #canada 22:17:04 <@phillipsjk> Is there any other old or unfinished business? 22:17:29 <@Travis_McCrea> phillipsjk are you going to give us your update? 22:17:35 -!- superhobo666 [webchat@ybb0-pdyllt42-4525770790.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #canada 22:17:59 <@phillipsjk> I have not done much. Been living under a rock the past two months. 22:19:12 <@phillipsjk> This month I asked 30 hours ahead (instead of 3 hours) about the mail-out for the meeting reminder. 22:19:58 <@phillipsjk> CraigNobbs wanted to make a motion 22:20:24 <+scshunt> :( 22:20:36 -!- webchat_4907 [webchat@lzlnh9239utpjx6-xupl9789hyeia3.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #canada 22:21:12 <@phillipsjk> Let's do oxpirate's motion first. 22:21:52 [Users #canada] 22:21:52 [@adpaolucci  ] [+Niyeaux2    ] [ Broken_Syntax] [ Guest19165] [ robban      ] [ Vanadis     ] 22:21:52 [@CCitizen     ] [+oxpirate    ] [ Channel6     ] [ helenbw   ] [ Roderick    ] [ webchat_0857] 22:21:52 [@phillipsjk   ] [+pappasadrian] [ CraigNobbs   ] [ Jon       ] [ Roderick_   ] [ webchat_4445] 22:21:52 [@Travis_McCrea] [+rlim_addmode] [ cypher_      ] [ KindOne   ] [ sangoku116qc] [ webchat_4907] 22:21:52 [+avliet       ] [+scshunt     ] [ danactive    ] [ MarkG     ] [ smbs        ] [ webchat_5858] 22:21:52 [+infoC        ] [+strake      ] [ darknyan_    ] [ missrobot ] [ superhobo666] [ Wmcclus     ] 22:21:52 [+JMcleod      ] [+thor        ] [ davidd       ] [ MononcQc  ] [ Teckie      ] [ XFaCE       ] 22:21:52 [+lcameron    ] [ arikb       ] [ DH           ] [ Niyeaux   ] [ trailblazer ] [ Zeroedout   ] 22:21:52 [+mikkidog    ] [ azend       ] [ drew         ] [ Postumus  ] [ tvelocity   ] [ zz_Darkknow ] 22:21:52 -!- Irssi: #canada: Total of 54 nicks [4 ops, 0 halfops, 12 voices, 38 normal] 22:22:07 <@phillipsjk> Craig says he is back. 22:22:07 <+oxpirate> I would like to ammend that motion to refer specifically to January of that year, rather than one year in advance. 22:23:00 -!- helenbw [webchat@l8984880239p10817.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:09 <@Travis_McCrea> oxpirate your motion was never in order 22:23:11 <@Travis_McCrea> so you get to make a new one 22:23:19 <@Travis_McCrea> (get to, and have to) 22:23:25 <+oxpirate> k one sec 22:23:40 <@phillipsjk> I have most of it in the agenda. 22:24:20 -!- webchat_4445 [webchat@lbg5-hqnbovwup59-8364694864.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:24:30 <@phillipsjk> (can't really copy-paste though) 22:24:49 <+strake> why not? 22:24:49 <+oxpirate> I motion that the collection of the Elections Canada EC 20036-C form begin the beginning of January in the year it is due, with party leadership initiating the collection of forms through social media and other means. 22:24:57 <@Travis_McCrea> second 22:25:52 <@phillipsjk> adpaolucci CraigNobbs phillipsjk thor avliet infoC JMcleod lcameron mikkidog Niyeaux2 oxpirate pappasadrian rlim_addmode scshunt strake thor 22:26:01 < CraigNobbs> yes? 22:26:03 <+scshunt> I'm here 22:26:10 <+infoC> yay 22:26:16 <+Niyeaux2> yay 22:26:21 <+thor> yay 22:26:25 <@phillipsjk> To vote in favour of the motion say "aye" to vote against say "nay" 22:26:28 <+JMcleod> aye 22:26:32 <+oxpirate> aye 22:26:33 <@Travis_McCrea> umm we didn't actually move to vote or anything 22:26:35 <@Travis_McCrea> not to be "that guy" 22:26:37 <+scshunt> ^ 22:26:42 < CraigNobbs> ^ 22:26:46 <+thor> s/yay/aye 22:26:48 <@Travis_McCrea> but there was like no discussion or discussion about discussing 22:26:49 < Broken_Syntax> aye 22:26:53 * phillipsjk facepalms 22:26:57 <@phillipsjk> sorrey 22:27:13 <+JMcleod> lolol I dint think that needed a discussion either, dont feel bad phillipsjk 22:27:13 <+pappasadrian> yes, i have something to discuss on this 22:27:15 <@phillipsjk> Is there any discussion of the motion before we vote 22:27:18 <@phillipsjk> ? 22:27:19 <+strake> yes 22:27:22 <+strake> sorry 22:27:22 <+pappasadrian> well 22:27:27 <+strake> could we specify e-mail too? 22:27:40 <+pappasadrian> are the signatures always supposed to be delivered on a specific month? 22:27:42 -!- webchat_2271 [webchat@m5360522o774497o2.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #canada 22:27:50 <+pappasadrian> (like in July, in this case?) 22:28:02 <+JMcleod> Yes, its every 3 years 22:28:03 <@CCitizen> aye 22:28:04 <@Travis_McCrea> I think that it's actually too specific<80> let's just say hey in January people need to start getting stuff done, instead of putting it off to the last minute 22:28:17 <+strake> yes, on nth thought, I agree 22:28:29 <@Travis_McCrea> Obviously we will use social media, we might use email, physical mail, at that point we might use phone calls or something 22:28:31 <+pappasadrian> so next delivery of signatures must happen by July 2nd, 2016 22:28:32 <+pappasadrian> okay 22:28:34 <+pappasadrian> makes sense 22:28:53 <+pappasadrian> then, I agree with January 22:28:57 -!- rlim_addmode [webchat@r72912661b95042z2.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Web client closed] 22:28:58 < webchat_2271> how many signatures are we up to now? 22:29:04 <+pappasadrian> but we must really begin on January 22:29:24 <+infoC> What about targeting groups that might be "in-line" with Pirate Party ideas and values? 22:29:36 <+oxpirate> I'm thinking since we've eliminated the forms in favour of social media it would be the main means, with everything else falling under "other means". 22:29:50 <+strake> wait, eliminated? 22:29:53 <+strake> that's allowed? 22:29:58 < Broken_Syntax> (note: It wouldn't hurt to post reminder posters even before Jan that January will be our EC renewal campaign. Maybe figure out something to promote early signers.) 22:29:58 <+infoC> do we want to specify or have flexibility? 22:30:20 <@phillipsjk> The signatures are not the only requirement for maintaining registration, but it is the major one requiring member participation. 22:30:22 <@Travis_McCrea> forums not forms* 22:30:31 <+strake> ahh 22:30:31 <@Travis_McCrea> just to avoid confusion about the forms that have to be filled out 22:30:36 <+strake> yes. 22:30:39 <+oxpirate> Specifics has intent, but as long as we have a system in place assuring we don't stop being a party and liquidate our assets I'm content. 22:31:12 <+strake> well I think that if we include social media, we ought to include e-mail 22:31:17 <+infoC> Agreed, specifics might be better off being part of strategic planning 22:31:25 <+strake> PPCA hasn't been active on G+ for quite a while 22:31:37 < CraigNobbs> How about we say "... by all means at their disposal"? 22:31:51 <+strake> well 22:31:52 -!- webchat_2271 is now known as Brent 22:31:52 <+infoC> I like that alot 22:31:55 <+strake> some may go too far 22:31:56 <@Travis_McCrea> by any means 22:32:05 <+strake> "by any means necessary" 22:32:06 -!- Brent is now known as Brent_Schaffric 22:32:12 <@Travis_McCrea> again all means<E2><80><A6> I COULD try yelling out the window<E2><80><A6> but that might not be the best means 22:32:22 <+strake> yes. 22:32:46 <+infoC> "the means at their disposal"? 22:32:53 < CraigNobbs> If it came down to the last signature, would you yell out of a window to get it? I would 22:33:06 <+strake> or just leave it unspecified 22:33:13 < Brent_Schaffric> we are going to have to go door to door to get the rest 22:33:15 <@Travis_McCrea> Yes, but your wording dictates that we use every means 22:33:19 <@Travis_McCrea> which is unrealistic 22:33:25 <+strake> "by the means at their disposal" is essentially a null modifier 22:33:30 <+strake> how else would they? 22:33:38 <+infoC> true enough 22:33:56 -!- thor [~d-_-b@epajes6217q-vf17-384-19.dynamic.mtsallstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:34:13 <@Travis_McCrea> I move to amend the motion on the floor to say "The collection of the Elections Canada EC 20036-C form begin January of year when it is due, with party leadership initiating the collection and mailing in of forms" 22:34:33 <+oxpirate> I think the emphasis on social media compliments the spirit of our parties current trajectory in using social media as our primary means of promotion 22:34:42 <+oxpirate> second 22:34:44 <@Travis_McCrea> I removed the means part in general, obviously means will be used, it's redundant 22:35:12 -!- webchat_0857 [webchat@s575-680-605-074.home8.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: Web client closed] 22:35:28 <@phillipsjk> Oxpirate, you second the amendment (it removed explicit mention of social media) 22:35:32 <@phillipsjk> > 22:35:37 < CraigNobbs> Travis: "Mailing in of forms" What do you mean by that? 22:35:47 < CraigNobbs> send to EC or mail out to members? 22:36:03 <+strake> EC would be inward, I think 22:36:05 <+oxpirate> I'm content with Travis' ammendment. 22:36:10 <@phillipsjk> EC requires Paper forms. 22:36:40 < CraigNobbs> yes, I am aware.... but did he mean to send them to EC as we received them? or was his intention something else? 22:36:42 <@CCitizen> Really I dont care who does it... technically as the GM we can delegate things to bodies that normally wouldnt do it... like giving the PC a normally EB type task 22:37:15 <@Travis_McCrea> It doesn't have to be specific, they will get mailed in 22:37:20 <@CCitizen> Also since member forms could include external solicitation of forms like we're doing now, I'd say give them the task of doing it 22:37:22 <@Travis_McCrea> maybe in groups, maybe one by one 22:37:28 <@phillipsjk> The currrent motion is to ammend the motion under discussion to read: "The collection of the Elections Canada EC 20036-C form begin January of year when it is due, with party leadership initiating the collection and mailing in of forms" 22:37:49 <@phillipsjk> adpaolucci CraigNobbs phillipsjk thor avliet infoC JMcleod lcameron mikkidog Niyeaux2 oxpirate pappasadrian rlim_addmode scshunt strake thor 22:37:54 <@Travis_McCrea> Aye 22:37:55 <+oxpirate> aye 22:37:57 <+JMcleod> aye 22:37:59 <+strake> aye 22:38:01 <+infoC> aye 22:38:05 <@phillipsjk> Vote "yay or nay" 22:38:09 < Broken_Syntax> aye 22:38:15 aye 22:38:17 < CraigNobbs> yay 22:38:27 <+strake> s/aye/yay/ 22:38:30 <@CCitizen> aye 22:38:47 is "Arrr" also acceptable? 22:39:08 <@Travis_McCrea> Can we keep conversation about the voting term in riffraff that way we don't get a double counted vote? <3 22:39:08 <@phillipsjk> I count 10 votes in favor, carried. 22:39:08 <+infoC> lol 22:39:34 <+oxpirate> Now how do we go about reminding the party about that motion? 22:39:34 <@Travis_McCrea> I suggest we simply vote now, since it seems like it has been discussed 22:39:39 <@phillipsjk> oops, counted superhobo666 twice :P 22:39:51 my bad :3 22:40:24 -!- strake [~strake@rgz69l75j1v7587-wn76597emw402c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: have work tomorrow] 22:40:32 <+avliet> aye 22:40:58 <+JMcleod> superhobo666 isnt even voiced, he counts for 0 22:41:11 <+JMcleod> Broken_Syntax too 22:41:19 <@phillipsjk> the new motion put to vote is: "(That) the collection of the Elections Canada EC 20036-C form begin January of year when it is due, with party leadership initiating the collection and mailing in of forms" 22:41:24 <@Travis_McCrea> oh also superhobo666 you haven't confirmed your membership 22:41:24 <+JMcleod> CraigNobbs isnt voiced 22:41:38 -!- mode/#canada [+v CraigNobbs] by Travis_McCrea 22:41:47 < Broken_Syntax> JM wait I have no voice? 22:41:52 <@CCitizen> For reference 2013 means we need to do this again in 2016 22:41:59 -!- mode/#canada [+v Broken_Syntax] by Travis_McCrea 22:41:59 Membership form? or on the Pirate Party website? 22:42:03 <@phillipsjk> 8 is enough to carry anyway. 22:42:12 <@Travis_McCrea> yeah but I am looking at quorum 22:42:27 <@Travis_McCrea> We are just at 15 people right now 22:42:28 <+Broken_Syntax> Can we fix that? Leonard Parker -> PC 22:42:43 <@Travis_McCrea> you already have voice now Broken_Syntax :P 22:43:00 <+Broken_Syntax> thank Travis. 22:43:13 <@phillipsjk> the new motion put to vote is: "(That) the collection of the Elections Canada EC 20036-C form begin January of year when it is due, with party leadership initiating the collection and mailing in of forms" 22:43:21 <@Travis_McCrea> superhobo666 did you mail in your membership form that was on https://pirateparty.ca/helpus? 22:43:27 good night 22:43:28 yes 22:43:30 <@Travis_McCrea> and or were you a member before with a member number? 22:43:32 <@Travis_McCrea> Sweet 22:43:36 -!- mode/#canada [+v superhobo666] by Travis_McCrea 22:43:37 <+superhobo666> almost 3 weeks ago 22:43:39 <@phillipsjk> adpaolucci CraigNobbs phillipsjk thor avliet infoC JMcleod lcameron mikkidog Niyeaux2 oxpirate pappasadrian rlim_addmode scshunt strake thor 22:43:44 <+JMcleod> aye 22:43:48 <@Travis_McCrea> aye 22:43:50 <@CCitizen> aye 22:43:50 <+CraigNobbs> yay 22:43:51 <+pappasadrian> aye 22:43:52 <+Niyeaux2> aye 22:43:52 <+oxpirate> aye 22:43:57 <+scshunt> yay 22:43:58 <+superhobo666> aye 22:44:20 -!- darknyan_ [~darknyan@d32-32-72-6.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:44:21 <@phillipsjk> I count 9 votes in favor, carried. 22:44:23 <+superhobo666> I mailed in my form about 3 weeks ago 22:44:44 <@phillipsjk> CraigNobbs, you had a motion? 22:44:51 <+CraigNobbs> two, in fact 22:45:12 <@phillipsjk> One was simply a notice I believe. 22:45:32 <+CraigNobbs> right 22:45:33 <+Broken_Syntax> (Just told TM who you are hobo) 22:46:16 -!- thor [~d-_-b@epajes6217q-vf17-384-19.dynamic.mtsallstream.net] has joined #canada 22:46:23 <@adpaolucci> so what did I miss? I just got out of traffic 22:46:26 -!- mode/#canada [+v thor] by Travis_McCrea 22:46:28 <+oxpirate> So just to throw the question out there again, can anyone think of any specific ways to remind leadership about that motion in three years? 22:46:39 <@Travis_McCrea> oxpirate I am working on a solution 22:46:41 <@Travis_McCrea> :) 22:46:45 <+oxpirate> <3 22:46:49 <+Broken_Syntax> cron job? 22:47:04 <@Travis_McCrea> I will accept this as my responsibility, and we will handle this in the PC since the motion is directed at us anyway 22:47:40 -!- sangoku116qc [webchat@wtradk6892c-kf230-60-3678494040.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:40 <@Travis_McCrea> I believe it's CraigNobbs' turn to make a motion 22:47:44 <+Broken_Syntax> Actually this may sound kinda dorky, but by post with special instruction? 22:48:06 <@Travis_McCrea> we can discuss it in #canada-pc 22:48:55 <+Broken_Syntax> agreed 22:49:01 <+pappasadrian> oxpirate: http://www.futureme.org/ 22:49:10 * Broken_Syntax sits down 22:49:15 <+CraigNobbs> Motion: To revoke the power give to the Leader of the Pirate Party of Canada by the Political Council, allowing him to give free membership to whomever he chosses, without a vote, as required by the Constitution, without ove rsight, because membership can only be revoked with reason, and because the power given is over reaching, too broad, and excessive. 22:50:14 <@phillipsjk> Is there a second to this motion? 22:50:43 <@Travis_McCrea> none here 22:50:49 <@adpaolucci> nope. 22:51:07 <@phillipsjk> Minor typo: " To revoke the power (given) to the Leader of the Pirate Party..." 22:51:23 <+CraigNobbs> =) my bad 22:51:33 -!- webchat_2788 [webchat@b83-444-309-945.home8.cgocable.net] has joined #canada 22:51:41 <@phillipsjk> Travis has a motion now. 22:51:45 -!- adpaolucci [~adpaolucc@0001.cld.devnullhost.com] has left #canada [Rage Quit.] 22:51:57 <@Travis_McCrea>  motion that the collection of the Elections Canada EC 20036-C form begin January of  year when it is due, with party leadership initiating the collection and mailing in of forms through social media and other ... 22:52:00 <@Travis_McCrea> err 22:52:03 <@Travis_McCrea>  moves to create an exploratory committee regarding moving general meetings to our loomio platform, this committee will include the head of IT, a member of the EB, and a member of the PC. 22:52:05 <@phillipsjk> (No seconds for the motion seen) 22:52:16 -!- webchat_5255 [webchat@108.162.ztu.gry] has joined #canada 22:52:41 -!- webchat_5255 is now known as CraigIsNoob 22:52:50 <+oxpirate> second @ travis 22:52:51 <@phillipsjk> That appears to be two motions. 22:53:16 <+Niyeaux2> i assume the first was just a mistaken copy-paste 22:53:20 <@phillipsjk> Did you want to break those up? 22:53:33 <@Travis_McCrea> It's just one 22:53:46 <@Travis_McCrea> It establishes a committee and says that 3 people will be on it 22:53:49 <@phillipsjk> Oh, right, the first was Oxpirate's motion. 22:54:23 <@phillipsjk> Is there any discussion/questions? 22:54:39 <+scshunt> what's the motion? 22:54:55 -!- mode/#canada [+o CraigNobbs] by phillipsjk 22:54:55 <+Broken_Syntax> Query: Does Loomio have a real time chat platform, or asynchronous forum style only? 22:55:00 -!- CraigIsNoob was kicked from #canada by CraigNobbs [CraigIsNoob] 22:55:04 <@Travis_McCrea> forum style only 22:55:10 <+infoC> what motivates this motion? 22:55:18 <+Broken_Syntax> (thought voters should know) 22:55:25 -!- CraigIsHarper [webchat@108.162.ztu.gry] has joined #canada 22:55:34 -!- mode/#canada [+b *!*@108.162.ztu.gry] by CraigNobbs 22:55:36 <@Travis_McCrea> so that we don't have to have long drawn out meetings where we spend 50 minutes deciding if we can start or not 22:55:39 <+oxpirate> It is far, far easier for members to contribute to it than having to attend meetings in irc. 22:56:04 <@Travis_McCrea> And people can log in at any time they want<E2><80><A6> pappasadrian for instance is a Canadian living in Greece 22:56:08 <@Travis_McCrea> He is +3 GMT 22:56:14 -!- CraigIsHarper was kicked from #canada by CraigNobbs [CraigIsHarper] 22:56:23 <+pappasadrian> i think loomio will get chaotic for more than ... idk... 20 people 22:56:35 <+infoC> is the information that we post on there still ours, or does it become property of Loomio? 22:56:37 <@CraigNobbs> agreed.... I think it'll be too chaotic 22:56:41 <@Travis_McCrea> this motion simply creates a committee to investigate if we should use it or not 22:56:45 <@Travis_McCrea> it doesn't establish it as our means 22:56:58 <+scshunt> I'd like to suggest an amendment: put "chosen by the EB" after "member of the EB" and "chosen by the PC" after "member of the PC" 22:57:00 <+pappasadrian> yes, i understood that, im just saying 22:57:02 <@Travis_McCrea> the technical side of it might be too difficult anyway, since it uses a different database engine 22:57:08 -!- adpaolucci [~adpaolucc@0001.cld.devnullhost.com] has joined #canada 22:57:08 -!- mode/#canada [+o adpaolucci] by ChanServ 22:57:08 <+scshunt> I don't think we want committee member elections here today 22:57:11 <+scshunt> :) 22:57:13 <+pappasadrian> +1 @ scshunt 22:57:30 <@Travis_McCrea> We might as well pick "chosen by the IT head" 22:58:04 <+pappasadrian> should we give this committee the authority to examine alternatives 22:58:17 <+pappasadrian> that might fit larger crowds better? 22:58:34 <+infoC> examining other alternatives is good 22:58:34 <+scshunt> seems reasonable 22:58:41 <+avliet> Does the committee have any specific directives or goals or is it simply "to explore the option"..? 22:58:48 <+avliet> +1 @ scshunt 22:58:52 <+scshunt> we should also give it a deadline 22:59:05 <+scshunt> getting committees to do things is hard enough round here... without deadlines, it's impossible 22:59:07 <+pappasadrian> avliet: i suppose the general directive would be "find something that will work" 22:59:21 <+scshunt> (protip to the committee members: you can report asking for more time!) 22:59:26 <+infoC> make recommandations? I would say "explore and evaluate" 22:59:26 <@Travis_McCrea> I move to amend my motion to : Create an exploratory committee regarding moving general meetings to an asynchronous platform, this committee will include a person chosen by the head of IT, a member chosen by the EB, and a member chosen by the PC. 22:59:27 <+pappasadrian> until the next GM perhaps? 22:59:31 <+scshunt> nah, longer term I think 22:59:44 -!- oxpirate [~anon@66.18.wpo.olg] has left #canada [] 22:59:46 <+Broken_Syntax> I would agree to a committee being formed with scshunt's adendum. We are an asynchronous party with occasionally asynchronous needs. It may be interesting to hear what such a committee comes up with. 22:59:54 [Users #canada] 22:59:54 [@adpaolucci  ] [+JMcleod     ] [ arikb          ] [ drew      ] [ Postumus   ] [ Vanadis     ] 22:59:54 [@CCitizen    ] [+lcameron    ] [ azend          ] [ Guest19165] [ robban     ] [ webchat_2788] 22:59:54 [@CraigNobbs  ] [+mikkidog    ] [ Brent_Schaffric] [ Jon       ] [ Roderick   ] [ webchat_4907] 22:59:54 [@phillipsjk  ] [+Niyeaux2    ] [ Channel6       ] [ KindOne   ] [ Roderick_  ] [ webchat_5858] 22:59:54 [@Travis_McCrea] [+pappasadrian] [ cypher_       ] [ MarkG     ] [ smbs       ] [ Wmcclus     ] 22:59:54 [+avliet      ] [+scshunt     ] [ danactive      ] [ missrobot ] [ Teckie     ] [ XFaCE       ] 22:59:54 [+Broken_Syntax] [+superhobo666] [ davidd        ] [ MononcQc  ] [ trailblazer] [ Zeroedout   ] 22:59:54 [+infoC       ] [+thor        ] [ DH             ] [ Niyeaux   ] [ tvelocity  ] [ zz_Darkknow ] 22:59:54 -!- Irssi: #canada: Total of 48 nicks [5 ops, 0 halfops, 11 voices, 32 normal] 23:00:38 <@CCitizen> We should amend it to say it's a special committee and give it a timeframe with which to present findings 23:01:39 <+avliet> Should the committee be set up to act in perpetuity with regular reports so that they are enabled to act upon new and upcomming technologies as they develop? 23:01:49 <@adpaolucci> I am already working on implementing liquid demo into a CRM like enviro 23:02:08 -!- mode/#canada [-v Broken_Syntax] by Travis_McCrea 23:02:18 <+pappasadrian> avliet: i dont think that is necessary 23:02:28 * Broken_Syntax stands 23:02:28 <@phillipsjk> Travis_McCrea, can you try another ammendment with some kind of dead-line? 23:02:33 <+pappasadrian> if there's a need for an upgrade to another tool, we can always have a new one 23:02:41 <+pappasadrian> (new committee) 23:03:03 <@adpaolucci> It's hard to set a deadline for IT, because I have limited time to commit to it and others don't seem to want to pitch in. 23:03:08 <@Travis_McCrea> I move to amend my motion to : Create an exploratory committee regarding moving general meetings to an asynchronous platform, this committee will include a person chosen by the head of IT, a member chosen by the EB, and a member chosen by the PC. This committee will report findings back each month to the general council 23:03:10 <@CCitizen> Special Committees are just that... temporary to deal with something somewhat specific, report their findings then get disbanded 23:03:14 < Broken_Syntax> sorry everyone, but just a highlight to this issue. I have to go get ready for work. 23:03:23 <@adpaolucci> So setting a deadline won't really do anything if we don't have the feet on the ground. I need coders. 23:04:22 <+JMcleod> adpaolucci: what do you need coders for and what do you need coders to code in 23:04:59 <+pappasadrian> adpaolucci: im pretty confident there are some ready solutions 23:05:01 <@adpaolucci> php to make a CRM system 23:05:15 <+pappasadrian> oh, for crm 23:05:19 <+pappasadrian> oh well 23:05:38 <@adpaolucci> I need to code a CRM system that can be intergrated with everything else 23:05:41 <+scshunt> adpaolucci: I don't interpret this as a deadline to implement 23:05:44 <+JMcleod> CRM = ? 23:05:47 <+scshunt> just a deadline to determine feasibility, advisability, etc. 23:05:54 <+scshunt> and report back to the GM 23:06:03 <+scshunt> since an asynchronous meeting system would require a constitutional amendment anyway 23:06:14 <@adpaolucci> I think it would be better to spend the time looking for people who can get the job done 23:06:57 <@adpaolucci> I need php devs, nothing will change that. we need to start pulling members with these skills and bring them into the process 23:07:01 <@Travis_McCrea> is there any second for my amendment? 23:07:30 <+scshunt> I'll second 23:07:37 <@phillipsjk> <Travis_McCrea> I move to amend my motion to : Create an exploratory committee regarding moving general meetings to an asynchronous platform, this committee will include a person chosen by the head of IT, a member chosen by the EB, and a member chosen by the PC. This committee will report findings back each month to the general council 23:08:51 <@Travis_McCrea> aye 23:09:03 <+pappasadrian> aye 23:09:07 <@CraigNobbs> we're not voting 23:09:10 <@phillipsjk> adpaolucci CraigNobbs phillipsjk thor avliet infoC JMcleod lcameron mikkidog Niyeaux2 oxpirate pappasadrian rlim_addmode scshunt strake thor 23:09:12 <+pappasadrian> arrr 23:09:13 <@phillipsjk> superhobo666, 23:09:21 <+superhobo666> Arr 23:09:27 <@adpaolucci> abstain 23:09:37 <@phillipsjk> oops, med the same mistake again. 23:09:42 <+avliet> aye 23:09:49 <+infoC> aye 23:10:03 <@Travis_McCrea> normally when phillipsjk restates the motion he means to vote, I just figured that's what he meant 23:10:17 <@phillipsjk> It is what I meant. 23:10:49 <@Travis_McCrea> :) oh, in that case I was right. Though I am guessing we need go to back and discuss more? 23:10:53 <@phillipsjk> I forgot to ask is there was any discussion though. This is only a vote to ammend the motion under discussion. 23:12:19 -!- oxpirate [~anon@66.18.wpo.olg] has joined #canada 23:12:19 <@phillipsjk> I count 6 in favor, 1 abstention. as chair I vote in favor of the amendment, passing it. 23:12:37 <@phillipsjk> Is the any discussion of the amended motion? 23:13:20 -!- adpaolucci [~adpaolucc@0001.cld.devnullhost.com] has left #canada [Rage Quit.] 23:13:41 <@Travis_McCrea> I just want to point out that we lost quorum 23:13:56 -!- mode/#canada [+v oxpirate] by Travis_McCrea 23:14:00 <@Travis_McCrea> lol nevermidn we are good! 23:14:03 <@phillipsjk> The motion under vote is: (To) Create an exploratory committee regarding moving general meetings to an asynchronous platform, this committee will include a person chosen by the head of IT, a member chosen by the EB, and a me mber chosen by the PC. This committee will report findings back each month to the general council 23:14:22 <+pappasadrian> aye 23:14:25 <+thor> aye 23:14:34 <@phillipsjk> adpaolucci CCitizen CraigNobbs phillipsjk Travis_McCrea avliet infoC JMcleod lcameron mikkidog Niyeaux2 pappasadrian scshunt superhobo666 thor 23:14:39 <@Travis_McCrea> aye 23:14:42 <+scshunt> aye 23:14:44 <+superhobo666> Arr 23:15:03 <+infoC> aye 23:15:06 <@CCitizen> aye 23:15:34 -!- adpaolucci [~adpaolucc@0001.cld.devnullhost.com] has joined #canada 23:15:35 -!- mode/#canada [+o adpaolucci] by ChanServ 23:15:53 <@phillipsjk> The motion under vote is: (To) Create an exploratory committee regarding moving general meetings to an asynchronous platform, this committee will include a person chosen by the head of IT, a member chosen by the EB, and a me mber chosen by the PC. This committee will report findings back each month to the general council 23:16:11 <@Travis_McCrea> I think we can vote 23:17:07 <@phillipsjk> I count 7 in favor, 8 is required for majority. 23:17:32 <@adpaolucci> nay 23:17:38 <+superhobo666> @Broken_Syntax 23:17:41 <@CraigNobbs> nay 23:18:23 <+avliet> aye 23:18:38 <+avliet> or was my vote counted already 23:19:28 <@Travis_McCrea> aye 23:19:32 <@phillipsjk> I now count 8 in favor, 1 against: the motion is carried. 23:19:44 <+pappasadrian> 2 against 23:19:57 <@Travis_McCrea> Wait are we voting on the motion or the ammendment? 23:20:10 <+pappasadrian> the motion 23:20:34 -!- mode/#canada [+v oxpirate] by Travis_McCrea 23:20:34 -!- mode/#canada [+v oxpirate] by Travis_McCrea 23:20:39 -!- mode/#canada [+v oxpirate] by Travis_McCrea 23:20:39 <@phillipsjk> The motion, I voted on the ammendment to pass it. (It is after 9:00PM MDT) 23:21:37 <@phillipsjk> pappasadrian, is correct, 8 in favor, 2 against. 23:22:06 <@phillipsjk> scshunt, has said he is willing to second CraigNobbs's earlier motion. 23:22:45 <+scshunt> yup 23:23:24 <@phillipsjk> Motion: To revoke the power given to the Leader of the Pirate Party of Canada by the Political Council, allowing him to give free membership to whomever he chosses, without a vote, as required by the Constitution, without ov ersight, because membership can only be revoked with reason, and because the power given is over reaching, too broad, and excessive. 23:23:31 <@adpaolucci> nay 23:23:38 <@Travis_McCrea> lol we are not voting yet adpaolucci 23:23:44 <@phillipsjk> any discussion? 23:23:45 <@adpaolucci> I still say Nay! 23:23:52 <@adpaolucci> I dislike it that much! 23:24:28 <+JMcleod> Im a non-sexual pervert so I like it very much 23:25:12 <@Travis_McCrea> phillipsjk yes I would like to say something 23:25:14 <@phillipsjk> OK, seeing, no discussion, I will put it to a vote. Vote "Yay" if in favor, else "Nay" 23:25:15 <+infoC> was that power given for a specific amount of time, does it have an expiry date? (sry, new here) 23:25:16 <@CraigNobbs> Is the floor open for discussion? 23:25:30 <@phillipsjk> Go ahead, Travis_McCrea 23:25:31 <+oxpirate> nay 23:25:36 <+scshunt> I would like to say a few words here too 23:25:37 <@CraigNobbs> The PC gave the Leader that power indefinately 23:25:40 <+thor> nay 23:25:43 <@CraigNobbs> until revoked 23:25:48 <@phillipsjk> We are not voting. 23:26:13 <@adpaolucci> nay 23:26:16 <+infoC> and that power was given for what purpose? getting more signatures, right? 23:26:21 <@Travis_McCrea> The PC has the authority to grant memberships to people, and also the constitution gives the PC the right to delegate it's powers to a single individual. This is great for times when we need action and not endless discuss ion on everything<E2><80><A6> like when we are in a crunch to get members. 23:26:32 <@CCitizen> infoC, the power was not given an expiry date but it was tied to the position not the person. So if he resigned then the person who succeeded him as leader would have that power 23:26:45 <@phillipsjk> Travis_McCrea, is speaking. 23:27:09 -!- webchat_4907 [webchat@lzlnh9239utpjx6-xupl9789hyeia3.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Web client closed] 23:27:27 <@Travis_McCrea> If this body denies the PC of it's abilities to act on it's own<E2><80><A6> then we have to question all of our actions. We were elected to make good decisions in the best interest of the party 23:28:09 <@Travis_McCrea> Let me just point out that the one vote not in favour of this, was my own. I abstained because I wouldn't vote to give myself more authority 23:28:14 <+scshunt> The GM has the power to revoke decisions, however, so this should at least be discussed 23:28:31 <+scshunt> I do support awarding free memberships to collect signatures 23:28:33 <+JMcleod> Can we have a quorum check before discussing something we wont vote on. 23:28:36 [Users #canada] 23:28:36 [@adpaolucci  ] [+lcameron    ] [ arikb          ] [ DH        ] [ Niyeaux    ] [ tvelocity   ] 23:28:36 [@CCitizen    ] [+mikkidog    ] [ azend          ] [ drew      ] [ Postumus   ] [ Vanadis     ] 23:28:36 [@CraigNobbs  ] [+Niyeaux2    ] [ Brent_Schaffric] [ Guest19165] [ robban     ] [ webchat_2788] 23:28:36 [@phillipsjk  ] [+oxpirate    ] [ Broken_Syntax  ] [ Jon       ] [ Roderick   ] [ webchat_5858] 23:28:36 [@Travis_McCrea] [+pappasadrian] [ Channel6      ] [ KindOne   ] [ Roderick_  ] [ Wmcclus     ] 23:28:36 [+avliet      ] [+scshunt     ] [ cypher_        ] [ MarkG     ] [ smbs       ] [ XFaCE       ] 23:28:36 [+infoC       ] [+superhobo666] [ danactive      ] [ missrobot ] [ Teckie     ] [ Zeroedout   ] 23:28:36 [+JMcleod     ] [+thor        ] [ davidd         ] [ MononcQc  ] [ trailblazer] [ zz_Darkknow ] 23:28:36 -!- Irssi: #canada: Total of 48 nicks [5 ops, 0 halfops, 11 voices, 32 normal] 23:28:46 <@Travis_McCrea> However, now that the body has spoken -- you shouldn't deny them that ability 23:28:47 <+scshunt> it's a bit of a desperate measure, but it certainly appears needed 23:28:50 <+infoC> wouldn't it be best to add that "in case of resignation" in the conditions to the power given to the Leader to avoid misunderstandings and abuse? 23:28:53 <+oxpirate> Again, I see nothing but benefit to the party in having us being able to give away free memberships. This is essential for getting people involved. 23:29:13 <+scshunt> I just am not entirely comfortable with giving one person the power to grant membership unilaterally 23:29:24 <+oxpirate> What harm could it do? 23:29:27 <@phillipsjk> JMcleod, there apears to be 16 with voice, though mikkidog is marked away 23:29:39 <@Travis_McCrea> scshunt the question isn't that, it's if we trust the PC to make good decisions 23:30:07 <+scshunt> I don't think it's fair to characterize it that way 23:30:14 <@Travis_McCrea> And actually it's not one person, my first act upon getting the "power" was to extend it to each member of the PC 23:30:16 <+scshunt> because the PC has abdicated its decision-making authority 23:30:25 <@phillipsjk> CraigNobbs, would like to speak. 23:30:46 <@Travis_McCrea> I think waiting to let each speaker talk is silly. It's IRC we can all read what everyone wrote 23:30:51 <@Travis_McCrea> but I will leave that up to phillipsjk 23:31:13 <+superhobo666> I think it's fine, it helps to point out an important message 23:31:14 <+superhobo666> and deter spam 23:32:58 <@CraigNobbs> This party is all about democracy. Tell me how letting one individual decide if a person should be given free membership for whatever reason they see, fits within the party? 23:33:19 <@CraigNobbs> The power was given and abused immediately 23:33:26 <@Travis_McCrea> Abused? 23:33:29 <@Travis_McCrea> and "immediately"? 23:34:17 <@CraigNobbs> The PC awarded to the Leader to give unilateral choice in the matter, to which he then passed that same unilateral power back to each individual member, completely bypassing the Constitution 23:34:39 <@Travis_McCrea> It was our interpretation of the constitution (and was discussed in the thread) that we each had that authority anyway 23:34:50 <@Travis_McCrea> we were only re-affirming the power that we figured we already had 23:34:55 <@CraigNobbs> Now each member can skip bringing it forth to the Council and choose individually 23:34:56 <@Travis_McCrea> We did the same thing with the logo 23:35:33 <@CraigNobbs> You assume to much Travis 23:35:41 <@CraigNobbs> *too 23:36:04 <@Travis_McCrea> I provided the discussion and vote for this body to view 23:36:07 <+oxpirate> CraigNobs: Are we not for Internet freedom more than we are for democracy? Can we in good faith actually say that having more members and more involvement is a bad thing? 23:36:33 <@Travis_McCrea> And a representative democracy, is still a democracy 23:36:54 <@CraigNobbs> It is not about gaining more members but the manner that they have taken to do so. It is about how the ends do not justify the means. 23:37:31 <+oxpirate> I just can't visualize a scenario where we're negatively affected by this policy. 23:37:33 <+avliet> +1 @ oxpirate 23:37:38 <@phillipsjk> speaker's list: CraigNobbs, CCitizen, scshunt 23:37:56 <@phillipsjk> I am AFK for a few minutes 23:37:57 <@CraigNobbs> They bypassed the Constitution completely and assumed a power, and gave themselves more power 23:38:01 <@Travis_McCrea> CraigNobbs can you explain a time when this has been abused? 23:38:27 <@Travis_McCrea> Tonight every person who was given membership was already set to be a member 23:38:46 <@adpaolucci> CraigNobbs: I'm pretty sure you are in no position to talk about abuse when you just banned an IP from this channel no more then an hour ago for them stating there opinion about you 23:39:39 <@CraigNobbs> the original vote to allow that power was an abdacation of power by the other memebers of the PC, and then passing that same power back to all of the other members of the PC. 23:39:48 <+JMcleod> Currently, we are at rist of losing the party status. To be honest, until that is resolved, I couldnt care less about the constitution. 23:40:00 hello.... is the meeting still on? 23:40:07 <@Travis_McCrea> trailblazer yes 23:40:08 can we all just get along 23:40:10 ? 23:40:13 <@CraigNobbs> @Adpaolucci: As I mentioned to you already, as the VP I was keeping decorum within the channel 23:40:13 <+superhobo666> Yes it is trialblazer 23:40:22 <+oxpirate> I can't agree with JMcleod more. 23:40:39 <@Travis_McCrea> I move to vote on this 23:40:48 <@adpaolucci> CraigNobbs: what is more important, decorum or standing for what are party is based on. Being Open. 23:40:51 <+scshunt> Travis_McCrea: >:( 23:41:11 <+scshunt> I have (different) things to say too 23:41:13 <@Travis_McCrea> sorry I wasn't aware we are actually observing the speakers list 23:41:21 <@CraigNobbs> Durring formal meetings, decorum must be followed, and anyone who wants to say anything can do so in a respectful manner. 23:41:23 <+scshunt> we half-were 23:41:32 <+scshunt> but I have not been speaking due to the speakers' list 23:41:39 <@Travis_McCrea> CraigNobbs theres good democracy<E2><80><A6> people can only say what you want to hear 23:41:49 <@Travis_McCrea> as opposed to the type of democracy which lets anyone be included 23:42:05 <@Travis_McCrea> which is bad democracy according to you 23:42:09 <+avliet> +1 @ JMcleod saving the party status trumps 23:42:18 <+scshunt> Ok, I'd like to take this conversation in a slightly different direction? 23:42:29 <@CraigNobbs> there's a way to say "Travis, I disagree with you" and the way not to say "Travis, you're a moron!" 23:42:36 <+scshunt> can I have a chance to speak (unless CCitizen would like to go first!) 23:42:45 <@CraigNobbs> they say the same thing, one holds respect while the other clearly does not 23:42:48 <+Niyeaux2> i was afk for a bit. are we seriously still talking about whether the leader should be able to make people members? i thought this issue was decided when not a single soul cared to second craig's earlier motion. 23:42:50 <@CCitizen> Sure I got mine already prepared it's short 23:42:51 <+JMcleod> POINT OF ORDER - Can the president step up to get this back on track? 23:43:16 <@CraigNobbs> the President is AFK 23:43:20 <@Travis_McCrea> Point of Information:Niyeaux2 yes, but CraigNobbs is now trying to make a motion to "turn off" that privilege 23:43:23 <@CraigNobbs> it falls to me until he returns 23:43:24 * phillipsjk back 23:43:34 <@Travis_McCrea> LOL well that was short lived 23:43:35 <@CCitizen> I want to ask CraigNobbs if he realizes that without the powers Travis_McCrea was given and exercised tonight to give some new people membership that we would not have a quorum tonight to be discussing this issue. Likewise, i t seems that Travis has not been abusing the power given to him and to put it bluntly the Political Council could very easily delegate the power to grant membership to everyone on the Politi 23:43:35 <@CCitizen> cal Council and that would not be a violation of the Constitution because the constitution does not put limitations on that power or it's delegation. Also I dont think Travis has been abusing that power either, he's just pre-e mptively giving out membership tonight to people who already sent the forms in wejust havent received them yet. 23:43:38 <+JMcleod> Then act accordingly 23:44:03 <@CraigNobbs> @ CCitizen, I understand that and argued that point to begin with 23:44:35 <+scshunt> Ok, my turn? 23:44:37 <@CraigNobbs> also, the free membership is based upon those forms being received 23:44:42 <+JMcleod> this is getting annoying 23:44:43 <+JMcleod> bye 23:44:46 [Users #canada] 23:44:46 [@adpaolucci  ] [+lcameron    ] [ arikb          ] [ DH        ] [ Niyeaux    ] [ tvelocity   ] 23:44:46 [@CCitizen    ] [+mikkidog    ] [ azend          ] [ drew      ] [ Postumus   ] [ Vanadis     ] 23:44:46 [@CraigNobbs  ] [+Niyeaux2    ] [ Brent_Schaffric] [ Guest19165] [ robban     ] [ webchat_2788] 23:44:46 [@phillipsjk  ] [+oxpirate    ] [ Broken_Syntax  ] [ Jon       ] [ Roderick   ] [ webchat_5858] 23:44:46 [@Travis_McCrea] [+pappasadrian] [ Channel6      ] [ KindOne   ] [ Roderick_  ] [ Wmcclus     ] 23:44:46 [+avliet      ] [+scshunt     ] [ cypher_        ] [ MarkG     ] [ smbs       ] [ XFaCE       ] 23:44:46 [+infoC       ] [+superhobo666] [ danactive      ] [ missrobot ] [ Teckie     ] [ Zeroedout   ] 23:44:46 [+JMcleod     ] [+thor        ] [ davidd         ] [ MononcQc  ] [ trailblazer] [ zz_Darkknow ] 23:44:46 -!- Irssi: #canada: Total of 48 nicks [5 ops, 0 halfops, 11 voices, 32 normal] 23:44:50 <+Niyeaux2> if he wants to put forward such a motion, then he should do so now, and we'll see if there's any support for it 23:44:53 -!- JMcleod [~JMcleod@shwcueqtcy683.176-771-76.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Check your quorum] 23:45:00 <@Travis_McCrea> Niyeaux2 the motion is on the floor right now 23:45:01 <+scshunt> Niyeaux2: he has put forward such a motion... 23:45:07 <+Niyeaux2> has anyone seconded? 23:45:09 <+scshunt> yes 23:45:10 <+scshunt> I did 23:45:10 <@Travis_McCrea> yes :\ 23:45:16 <+Niyeaux2> oh, alright, i missed that 23:45:16 -!- adpaolucci [~adpaolucc@0001.cld.devnullhost.com] has left #canada [Rage Quit.] 23:45:31 <@Travis_McCrea> Actually we no longer have quorum 23:45:39 <+scshunt> yes we do, trailblazer is a member and present 23:45:48 -!- CCitizen [~Patrick@mbu2153d3jzai30-naw05yi1w11wt9.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #canada [Leaving] 23:45:51 -!- webchat_8570 [webchat@n77462656535174k7.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #canada 23:45:56 <@phillipsjk> scshunt, go ahead. 23:45:56 <@Travis_McCrea> now we are short 23:46:15 <+scshunt> well, I'm going to go ahead regardless of whether or not we have quorum 23:46:18 <@phillipsjk> This meeting is going long. 23:46:33 <+scshunt> though I encourage members to bring motions of censure against the members of the party leadership who just busted quorum 23:46:40 <+scshunt> because that is wholly inappropriate 23:46:46 <+scshunt> anyway 23:46:58 <+oxpirate> CraigNobbs: Though I think the powers are a good thing, I would be willing to revisit this. Can we not find consensus to at least wait until we have 300 forms to discuss this further? 23:47:04 <+scshunt> I don't believe that the PC or Travis has acted beyond their authority or circumvented the constitution 23:47:33 <+scshunt> I don't believe that granting free memberships to people who fill out the forms is a bad idea 23:48:07 <+scshunt> I do believe that this is an appropriate forum to discuss this matter, because this is a delegated democracy 23:48:23 <+scshunt> the general membership grants power to the leadership but retains the right to review 23:48:37 <+scshunt> CraigNobbs wanted to invoke that power to review and I feel he has been unfairly treated by the members here 23:49:16 <+scshunt> I am genuinely uncomfortable with the notion that members were added to the party for a single day in order to meet quorum at a GM, regardless of any other factors 23:49:52 <@Travis_McCrea> scshunt if I can respond to that: they are already members, we have their paperwork. We just don't have access to verify it, at a certain level we need to have trust. 23:50:22 <+scshunt> The concern I have with the PC's delegation of authority is not that it was inappropriate to delegate the authority 23:50:47 <+scshunt> but that it was such a broad delegation that has (regardless of whether or not it was the best decision) been used for purposes beyond its original envisioning 23:51:29 <+scshunt> Just as this body is empowered to oversee the EB and the PC, I believe it is a responsibility of the PC and the EB to oversee the individuals comprising them 23:52:00 <+scshunt> we champion hard against discarding oversight authority in the context of Parliament 23:52:19 <+scshunt> yet the membership today has shown great reluctance to even grant fair consideration to a member trying to exercise oversight 23:52:58 <+oxpirate> Does the necessity of these 300 forms, the urgency of survival, not beget these powers at least for now? Can we not all agree there is nothing more important than survival right now? Can we all not agree to hold off on decidin g about this until July 2nd? 23:53:09 -!- CraigNobbs2 [~craignobb@96.53.um.no] has joined #canada 23:53:28 <+scshunt> I'm not convinced it necessitates the sweeping nature of the powers 23:53:33 <+scshunt> though I'm open to argument 23:53:47 < CraigNobbs2> sorry, I got disconnected and couldn't reconnect 23:53:48 <+Niyeaux2> i don't think there is any lack of oversight, though. we all know exactly what's going on, and with a couple exceptions have decided that we're okay with it. 23:53:53 -!- oxpirate [~anon@66.18.wpo.olg] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:54:06 -!- CraigNobbs [~craignobb@184.65.kko.kyz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:54:14 <+scshunt> Niyeaux2: an important part of having this authority is exercising it fairly. From my perspective, CraigNobbs2 was effectively shouted down 23:54:19 <+scshunt> even when the President assigned him the floor 23:54:35 -!- oxpirate [~anon@66.18.wpo.olg] has joined #canada 23:54:41 -!- CraigNobbs2 is now known as CraigNobbs 23:54:46 <+Niyeaux2> how so? the first time around, he was allowed to put forward the motion, and there was no support for it, so we moved on 23:54:52 <+scshunt> No. 23:55:09 <@Travis_McCrea> scshunt has said his peace, I suggest we adjourn -- we have lost quorum. Opinions have been said, we can discuss this at the next meeting 23:55:28 <+scshunt> Niyeaux2: in my view, it is the responsibility of each member to give fair consideration to each motion, unless he believes it is made in bad faith 23:55:33 <+scshunt> on the principle of the golden rule 23:55:41 <@Travis_McCrea> We can't motion to adjourn, we don't have quorum so the meeting automatically dissolves 23:55:51 <@phillipsjk> before we adjourn, CraigNobbs wanted to give notice for a constitutional ammendment as well. 23:55:55 <+scshunt> Travis_McCrea: false, the meeting actually can consider a few motions, adjourn being one of them 23:56:06 <@Travis_McCrea> phillipsjk he can't because the people seeing the notice 23:56:13 <@Travis_McCrea> would not be at quorum 23:56:28 <@phillipsjk> It is in the agenda discussed earlier. 23:56:29 <+scshunt> I would contend that the notice was given via the agenda 23:56:45 -!- infoC [webchat@ozgwdwvyrc458.189-17-55.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Web client closed] 23:56:47 <+scshunt> but that is, unfortunately, not a matter that an inquorate meeting is capable of resolving 23:56:50 <@Travis_McCrea> I would argue it hasn't been read out loud 23:57:14 <+scshunt> whether or not this constitutes notice can only be resolved at the next meeting 23:57:30 <+scshunt> so I suppose I'll move to adjourn, given the lack of quorum 23:57:37 <@Travis_McCrea> we can't vote on adjourning 23:57:41 <+scshunt> yes we can 23:57:43 <@Travis_McCrea> because we have no quorum 23:57:56 <+scshunt> inquorate meetings can still adjourn to a certain time or place, or recess 23:57:58 <@Travis_McCrea> lol but let's vote I don't want to hold things up 23:58:16 <+scshunt> (or take other measures to obtain quorum, in the case of legislatures with the power to compel members' attendance) 23:58:38 -!- Channel6 [~blah@us.pirate] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:40 <@phillipsjk> The motion on the flour is to adjourn. 23:58:52 <@Travis_McCrea> >.> well we can't eat that bread 23:58:56 <@phillipsjk> adpaolucci CCitizen CraigNobbs phillipsjk Travis_McCrea avliet infoC JMcleod lcameron mikkidog Niyeaux2 pappasadrian scshunt superhobo666 thor 23:58:58 <@Travis_McCrea> aye 23:59:04 < CraigNobbs> nay 23:59:05 aye 23:59:09 <+superhobo666> aye 23:59:21 -!- danactive [~irc@k843938793leo7393.vc.shawcable.net] has left #canada [] 23:59:31 <+scshunt> aye 23:59:48 <+avliet> Arrr 23:59:58 <+thor> abstain 00:00:43 <@phillipsjk> I see 5 votes in favor, and people voting with their feet. the meeting is adjourned. Craigs' notice will be Unfinished business next meeting. 00:00:49 <@phillipsjk> *6 00:01:47 <@phillipsjk> Oops, I am sleeping 00:02:05 <@phillipsjk> 5 in favor, 1 against, 1 abstention 00:02:48 < CraigNobbs> good night. 00:03:09 -!- CraigNobbs [~craignobb@96.53.um.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:32 <+superhobo666> I have to work in the morning. I'll get the next meeting date from Broken_Syntax 00:03:49 <+superhobo666> take care guys. 00:03:55 -!- superhobo666 [webchat@ybb0-pdyllt42-4525770790.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Web client closed] 00:04:01 <+scshunt> btw, re: craig +kbing the person with that nick 00:04:08 <+scshunt> I was about to raise a point of privilege about that anyway 00:04:08 <@phillipsjk> I have been getting meeting dates from /topic 00:04:15 <+scshunt> name-calling of any form is inappropriate in a meeting 00:04:27 <+scshunt> phillipsjk: 3rd wednesday, isn't it? 00:04:52 -!- webchat_2788 [webchat@b83-444-309-945.home8.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: Web client closed] 00:05:07 * trailblazer sigh 00:05:30 <+scshunt> it's ok 00:05:36 <+scshunt> this isn't the worst meeting I've had this week 00:06:02 what other meeting. school? It beats this meeting? wow 00:06:10 <+scshunt> yeah, at school 00:06:19 well I only catch the beginning and the end and it seems to be the same argument :P 00:06:33 <+scshunt> trailblazer: subtly different, but yes 00:06:39 <+scshunt> there was a bit of productivity in the middle though 00:07:12 good. hope someone took the minute because I am not looking forward to going through the log for minutes :P 00:07:26 -phillipsjk:#canada- the meeting is adjourned 00:08:01 <+scshunt> trailblazer: there isn't much of note for the minutes thankfully