PB 2012-01-12 transcript

[21:30] <@Rintaran> 9:30pm, Time for the Political Board meeting. [21:32] <@svulliez> Hello gentlemen. [21:32] <@Rintaran> Hey Shawn. Ready for a go at a PB Meet? [21:32] <+Nuitari> hi [21:33] <@svulliez> I'm roarin' and ready [21:34] <@Rintaran> Awesome, the sooner we start, the sooner I can crawl into bed and go back to fighting whatever I caught. [21:36] <@Rintaran> First thing I'd like to gauge is whether we're for setting aside a portion of the new spectrum option for small/new telecom, despite the growing risks of foreign ownership, or if we perfer an open competition, but with limits on the amount of spectrum that can be bought by a single telecom? [21:37] <@svulliez> I'd say that interpreting the international pirate community and our platform, we're more anti- monopoly than anti-foreign ownership [21:38] <+Nuitari> I don't think foreign owenership is such a big issue at this point [21:38] <+Nuitari> it's not like we actually build the equipment in Canada to start with... [21:39] <@Rintaran> Sadly true, but at least I see we're all on the same page regarding the spectrum option. [21:39] <@Rintaran> I should be able to write up an article on the auction tomorrow. Leverage OpenMedia's Stop the Squeeze campaign for some benefit. [21:39] <+Nuitari> good idea [21:39] <@svulliez> Yeah, agreed. [21:40] <@Rintaran> Any particular points in that area you would like me to touch upon? [21:42] <+Nuitari> not really [21:42] <@svulliez> Open (libre) and affordable communications technology should be available to all Canadians, basically [21:42] <+Nuitari> outrageous pricing fees [21:42] <@svulliez> if that is not considered a given [21:43] <+Nuitari> and how it's ridiculous to complain about ownership when the platform itself isn't open [21:43] <@Rintaran> I'll try to hit all those points. [21:45] <@svulliez> I've got a few things I was hoping to bring up, although I'm not sure which order we should attempt to make them reality [21:45] <@Rintaran> Well, lets get them rolling. Maybe alphabetically? [21:46] <@svulliez> starting with B for Bitcoin [21:46] <@svulliez> I was talking to yeho about the complications on accepting bitcoin, and he suggested something I think is a good idea [21:46] <@svulliez> which is find another wallet to point to, and encourage people to donate there [21:46] <@svulliez> wikileaks, or the EFF, or something [21:47] <@svulliez> personally I swing wikileaks [21:47] <@svulliez> but I think it would be easy to do and it would have a positive affect [21:47] <@svulliez> and broadcast a positive image about us [21:48] <@svulliez> of us* [21:48] <@svulliez> I think the EFF doesn't accept bitcoin anymore. [21:48] <@Rintaran> Does that get around EC's restriction? Political parties aren't allowed to raise money for outside funds, only for the party itself. [21:48] <@svulliez> Hm, we can't even encourage people to donate to someone else? [21:48] <@Rintaran> The NDP got thwacked with that when they tried raising money after Layton's death. [21:48] <+Nuitari> yeah [21:49] <@Rintaran> We can encourage them, but I don't think we can even link it. [21:49] <+Nuitari> it's a thorny issue [21:49] <@Rintaran> Doesn't stop of from saying "Type these words into your search engine of choice" [21:49] <@svulliez> I don't mean that we'd set up a wallet ourselves, just say "here is why we can't take bitcoin, here are some other places that DO that you may be interested in helping" [21:50] <@Rintaran> Actually, that exact line may work, since we're not recommending any one place in particular. [21:50] <@Rintaran> Technically, we wouldn't be recommending any of them. [21:51] <@svulliez> I was originally thinking that we could post their wallet ids, but it's just as good to link to them posting their own wallet IDs [21:52] <@Rintaran> How would we implement that? As a widget on the wordpress? The site needs such a huge fix-up I'm not even sure where we would begin for something like that... [21:52] <@Rintaran> Maybe just an element of the donate page? [21:53] <@svulliez> We could do what I did with the pirates in parliament page and set up a temporary page as a subpage of another page so it has to be linked to [21:54] <@svulliez> and link to it on the donate page from something like "Looking to donate via bitcoin?" [21:54] <@Rintaran> Never noticed a subpage on that. [21:54] <@svulliez> It's a subpage of Travis's election run page [21:54] <@svulliez> because everywhere else I put it it seemed to be showing up where I didn't want it [21:55] <@Rintaran> Can't get to it without the link this way though eh? [21:56] <@svulliez> Yeah, it was showing up in sidebars and stuff before I did that [21:56] <@svulliez> I am far from a web design afficianado [21:57] <@svulliez> there may be a better way to do it. [21:57] <@Rintaran> Possibly, but there's a lot of work to be done to the site to start getting it into some sort of order... [21:57] <@Rintaran> There's some good suggestions coming up in the Web Page thread. [21:58] <@svulliez> I've been saying for a long time I believe we need a bottom-up redesign ASAP [21:58] <+Nuitari> yes we do [21:58] <+Nuitari> so maybe we should start with that instead of bitcoin [21:59] <@svulliez> I'm willing to lead the conceptual side of that project, but as soon as you have me typing code, we're all fucked [22:00] <+Nuitari> what about graphic work? [22:00] <+Nuitari> I'm sure we can find someone to do the html/css [22:00] <@svulliez> I'm halfway decent with design, colorblind though, may need someone to smooth it over after [22:00] <@Rintaran> Well, my html/css is better than my graphics stuff, but far below par. [22:01] <@Rintaran> Still, I can usually muddle through. But writing content is much more my strong suit than design, programming or graphics. [22:01] <@svulliez> But yeah, I'd be willing to try to see that through if we're all on board, I can get some sketches together and talk to Jake and the other local folks [22:02] <+Nuitari> we have dozens of people that can do the html/css [22:02] <+Nuitari> and worst case I know someone we can hire for that part [22:02] <+Nuitari> but we need someone to come up with the artistic part of it [22:03] <@svulliez> By next meeting I'll have at least some rough concepts. I'll take that on. [22:03] <+Nuitari> ok [22:03] <@svulliez> my vision is a pirateparty.ca more focused on appealing to the average person who stumbles in and teaching them things, and have a subdomain for members/power users. I think people get scared off by our website. [22:03] <+Nuitari> yeah [22:04] <@svulliez> Yeah, I'll share more of my ideas in the form of a more formal pitch later [22:04] <@svulliez> moving on... [22:04] <@svulliez> C for CARDS [22:04] <+Nuitari> yeah [22:04] <@svulliez> if you've seen my thread in promotions, I'd like to expand our membership card promotion to non- members [22:04] <@Rintaran> Has the issue with the supplier for the cards finally been dealt with? [22:05] <+Nuitari> not really [22:05] <@svulliez> Based on a similar concept being done by other pirate parties [22:05] <+Nuitari> they have an authorized paypal payment [22:05] <+Nuitari> that will expire on the 19th [22:05] <+Nuitari> I tried emailing and calling them, they are probably out of business :/ [22:05] <+Nuitari> I've already lined up another supplied [22:05] <+Nuitari> but I'd like the authorization to expire first [22:06] <@Rintaran> How long will it take for the new supplier to kick into action once it flips? [22:06] <+Nuitari> about a week to get the materials [22:07] <+Nuitari> I also have to redo most of the printing system [22:07] <@svulliez> Cool. [22:08] <@Rintaran> Now as for the supporter cards idea, I'm kinda meh on it. [22:08] <@svulliez> I'll make the points I see as relevant, although I admit it's not the most exciting idea ever: [22:08] <@Rintaran> Maybe link them to something they can download and print. It may be a better plan in that area. [22:09] <@Rintaran> I'd rather see a raised scale of rewards for larger donations than a meagre "supporter" card for dixiechick97 [22:09] <@svulliez> The two are not dichotomous [22:10] <@svulliez> -Some people would like to have a token reminder of supporting the pirate party, but can not legally become a member due to their citizenship, affiliation with another party, and etc. [22:10] <@Rintaran> No, but by going a supporter card, it's almost encouraging people not to join the party. We need signed committed members as much as we need the donations. [22:10] <@svulliez> Ok, I'll respond to that but let me finish. [22:10] <@Rintaran> The citizenship issue also elimnates their being able to donate... [22:11] <@svulliez> -I know for a fact that people would not like printing out a piece of paper that says "I support the pirate party" [22:12] <@svulliez> -It's a collectable cool thing to have, especially if we cycled designs - it seems like other pirate parties may be doing the same thing, and it would cool to have a situation where you can collect cards from pirate parties around the world [22:12] <@svulliez> if there is a legal barrier to that, I'd like to see it sourced [22:13] <@Rintaran> Elections Canada. It's why we had to refuse a $1000 donation from an American. [22:13] <@Rintaran> It's right in the act. [22:14] <@svulliez> -encouraging people who do not really *want* to be a member is not bad, because if they don't [22:15] <@svulliez> I guess my big point is: It would be kind of cool and it's not going to break the fine china [22:16] <@Rintaran> I think I may have an alternative that would be preferable to a supporter card... [22:17] <@Rintaran> A supporter card will just get lost in a wallet. Maybe taken out when someone gets too drunk and decides it'd seem cool. [22:17] <@Rintaran> A better item may be to go with a sew-on badge. That way they could sew it right on their jacket, backpack, w/e. [22:18] <@Rintaran> They can actually show that they're a supporter, as opposed to have a piece of plastic they never remember/look at [22:18] <@svulliez> Again, the two are not mutually exclusive but I like the idea [22:19] <@Rintaran> Mutually exclusive, no. But a supporter card really doesn't do us any good beyond just getting the initial donation. A sew-on badge gets us the donation plus on-person advertisement. [22:19] <@svulliez> Patches are more expensive and need to be bought in bigger batches [22:19] <@Rintaran> Much better ROI,. [22:20] <+Nuitari> not too hot at the idea of the cards [22:20] <+Nuitari> they're a lot of work as it is [22:20] <@Rintaran> Well, we did up a dozen badges here as a sample run. They go for $6/each at that small a quantity. [22:21] <@Rintaran> The price drops as we raise the quantity of course. [22:21] <@Rintaran> I should be seeing the sample run at the next Ottawa meeting, in 2-weeks. How about we re-examine the possibility then? [22:21] <@svulliez> I have no further points to make except to say that I'd be cautious of the either/or fallacy, and I support the badges if that's the version that we can move forward with [22:22] <@svulliez> Sure. I also support the tiered donation system, we should move forward on that in the next year [22:22] <+Nuitari> I prefer the badges right now as we can easily ship them out quickly [22:22] <+Nuitari> I notice that people tend to get impatient / forgetful rather quickly so I'd rather have something that we can do as a quick reminder [22:22] <@svulliez> In the next year as in, starting now, not 2013 [22:22] <@Rintaran> It only took 1-week to get a dozen done. Apparently they can do a few hundred in that time if we wanted them. [22:25] <+Nuitari> how much for a batch of 100 ? [22:25] <@svulliez> I think around a dollar or two each [22:25] <+Nuitari> on what criteria would we distribute them? [22:26] <@Rintaran> I'll have to check with the supplier, but I think it's reasonable. Probably closer to $3 though. [22:26] <@Rintaran> Any donation $20 or more? [22:26] <@svulliez> If it's based on color as well as size, I wouldn't be opposed to doing the international black pirate flag logo [22:27] <@Rintaran> It's actually based on stitches. [22:27] <+Nuitari> Rintaran: yeah that would be decent [22:27] <@Rintaran> We managed to keep the number of stitches below a certain point, which dropped the price for a dozen by nearly half. [22:28] <@Rintaran> Well, it would be something that would have to be approved by the executive board, but I don't think they'll have a problem with the initial expense in exchange for a new income stream. [22:29] <@svulliez> I'm going to move on, because more information on this will be available later and we can have a more enriched patch discussion [22:29] <@svulliez> D for Darknet. I think we should get a presence (even a small one, splash page, whatever) on as many darknets as possible, and (potentially with the redesign) launch an information campaign focused on teaching people how to access eepsites, .onion domains, and use I2p to share files. The "hooray!" at the end of the tutorial is [22:29] <@svulliez> "You are looking at our pirate party darknet page, you did it" [22:29] <@svulliez> on the darknet site [22:30] <@svulliez> I'm not an expert on the area, but it seemed as if Johann was willing to do a bit of legwork to make it happen. I'm interested in learning and teaching others anyways. [22:31] <@svulliez> I'm split between wanting to wait because of the election and other things, and wanting to move quickly because of SOPA, and other similar awful legislation [22:32] <@Rintaran> Well, we should probably either put together a primer on darknets, or find a good one to pass around. [22:32] <@Rintaran> Having our own page on the darknets is fine is someone is willing to manage it and keep it in- line with our other offerings. [22:33] <+Nuitari> why can't it be our current page accessible on the darknets? [22:34] <@Rintaran> Apparently, darkpages are static... [22:34] <@svulliez> heh [22:34] * +Nuitari wonders why [22:34] <@Rintaran> Hence why I would need a primer before I could really consider something along those lines. [22:34] <+Nuitari> yeah [22:34] <+Nuitari> I think I need one too [22:34] <@Rintaran> If its static, what's the point? [22:34] <@svulliez> Ok, that will be a formal proposal someday [22:35] <@svulliez> To say "Hey, you did it. You followed the instructions and now you found our darknet page.", to start [22:35] <@svulliez> but that will all be in the formal proposal, let's move on [22:35] <@Rintaran> Ok, that's nice. But what does it accomplish? [22:36] <@Rintaran> True, true. I have another 30 minutes in me, and I'm guessing there's a lot more to discuss. [22:36] <@svulliez> if you want to have a discussion about what the pirate party is accomplishing, that's a can of worms for another day [22:36] <@svulliez> but yeho has it right [22:36] <@svulliez> K for Killing our Zazzle store immediately [22:36] <@svulliez> because fuck that store, I hate it, it makes us look like noobs [22:37] <@svulliez> no one uses it, the merch is cheap and ugly [22:37] <@svulliez> and it makes us look like total scrubs, seriously. [22:37] <+Nuitari> I think that should be as part of a redesign of the shopping page [22:37] <@Rintaran> Sounds like somethign to bring before the executive board as it is a revenue decision... [22:37] <+Nuitari> that whole part is udly [22:38] <@Rintaran> Though I agree it's not particularly eye-catching. [22:38] <@Rintaran> Stephane would have a better idea as to its profitability. [22:39] <+Nuitari> meh [22:39] <+Nuitari> but it's a decent way for people to purchase merchandise we don't carry [22:39] <@svulliez> :| It's probably best for the political party as a whole for us to play as few bureaucratic shell games as possible... Saying "that would have to be approved by another board" isn't particularly helpful and I believe is one of the types of behavior that turns supporters into non-supporters [22:39] <+Nuitari> we earned a total of 762$ from zazzle since the beginning [22:40] <@Rintaran> It's part of the reason we separated the political and executive boards. [22:40] <@Rintaran> Political board is for policy and platform. Executive board is for nuts and bolts, fundraising, paperwork, etc. [22:41] <@svulliez> I understand that, thanks [22:41] <@svulliez> But we're not really in a position to do anything because we still haven't had the election [22:42] <@svulliez> if we had just booted mikkel six months ago imagine where we could be [22:42] <@Rintaran> My point exactly... [22:42] <@svulliez> I'm just sharing ideas, my apologies [22:43] <@svulliez> When I was thinking redesign I saw the zazzle thing and cringed [22:43] <+Nuitari> next point please [22:43] <@svulliez> It seems executive now, but [22:43] <+Nuitari> we have some control over how zazzle displays the page too [22:43] <@svulliez> USB sticks with a PPCA logo on them that have a boot-from-usb pro-privacy linux platform [22:44] <@svulliez> as a fundraising tier thing as well as something we can hand out at rallies and stuff [22:44] <@svulliez> it was discussed at the Vancouver meeting [22:44] <+Nuitari> I'd give it out on capt with instructions on how to install [22:44] <@svulliez> Another good point. Increasing capt's library [22:44] <@Rintaran> We can do both actually. [22:44] <@svulliez> I suppose that is also part of the redesign [22:44] <@Rintaran> Though I've looked into customized USB sticks in the past. [22:45] <@svulliez> haha "We can do both actually." should be the party motto until the next election [22:45] <@Rintaran> They're actually quite prohibitive in price, for peanuts in size if you want to have your logo on them. [22:45] <@svulliez> I was thinking cheap-o ones with stickers on them [22:45] <@Rintaran> That we could probably manage better... [22:45] <@svulliez> an 8.5x11 sheet of tiny PPCA stickers could cover a lot of USB sticks [22:45] <@Rintaran> A bunch of 1 GB sticks with them there. [22:46] <@svulliez> jake seemed to think he could buy a mass for around a buck a pop, I'll follow up with him on that [22:46] <@Rintaran> Again, its something for the executive board, but unless its very prohibitive in price, I could back that initiative. [22:47] <@svulliez> yeah, truthfully I just think of the political board as "the federal council" and the executive board as the "do nothing until the election" board [22:48] <@svulliez> which explains why I thought these points were relevant [22:48] <@Rintaran> More the other way around in truth... [22:48] <@Rintaran> Think of the Political Board as the Platform, Current Events, React & Makes Waves Board. [22:49] <@Rintaran> And the Executive Board as the "Background Organizing regardless of platform/current events" Board. [22:49] <@svulliez> That's what I was thinking of the federal council of all these years, which explains the confusion all this time [22:49] <@svulliez> we did not actually have that board yet [22:49] <+Nuitari> at some point the political board will have to decide the spending with PR but require approval of exec board [22:49] <+Nuitari> or the fund [22:50] <@Rintaran> I'd like to see the Exec Board become the Fund in my opinion. That was my original angle, but it didn't quite fall that way. [22:50] <+Nuitari> that would make more sense [22:50] <@Rintaran> Maybe I failed to explain it properly at the time. :( [22:51] <@svulliez> We're going to edit the hell out of that constitution, don't worry :) [22:51] <@svulliez> that's why we made a new constitution in the first place [22:51] <@Rintaran> Anyhow, platform-related, Reddit is Blacking Out against SOPA on the 18th. Wikipedia is considering following suit. Should we do the same? [22:52] <@svulliez> Pirates already know about SOPA [22:52] <@svulliez> I'd say it's frivolous but I wouldn't fight it [22:53] <@Rintaran> The catch is that the general meeting is on the 18th, and that's when we're supposed to elect our Executive Board (finally) [22:53] <+Nuitari> the vote is on the 18 ? [22:53] <@Rintaran> It should also be when we finally vote to approve/deny the candidates, but who knows... [22:53] <@Rintaran> Vote for positions is in-meeting for executive board. [22:53] <@Rintaran> So sayeth the constitution... [22:54] <+Nuitari> how does this tie into the fund? [22:55] <+Nuitari> wait [22:55] <+Nuitari> if I read the forum right [22:55] <@Rintaran> Directors of the fund have "non-voting" positions on the executive board. So the elections for Pres, Vice-Pres, and Sec doesn't particularly tie into the fund... [22:56] <+Nuitari> there is no one going for the fund positions yet ? [22:56] <@Rintaran> No one has stepped forward to take any of the fund director roles, though those aren't "elected" positions in truth. [22:56] <@svulliez> People are barely aware of them [22:59] <+Nuitari> well we'll handle that with the new exec board [22:59] <+Nuitari> kind of sucks that fund isn't voting but anyways [22:59] <+Nuitari> can we move on ? [23:00] <@Rintaran> Is there anything pressing? It's 11:00pm here and I'm dying for some shut-eye, but I can fit in one more element if there's something particularly important to discuss... [23:01] <@svulliez> I don't know which board this fits on, but I'd like to seriously discuss our internal conduct in the future. bureaucracy and pedants are killing our support, people don't feel welcome participating [23:02] <+Nuitari> what we need is a greeter [23:04] <@Rintaran> A basic code of conduct would be great. But that means everyone would need to abide by it. [23:04] <+Nuitari> I need to go [23:04] <+Nuitari> ttyl [23:04] <@Rintaran> G'night Stephane. [23:06] <@Rintaran> I guess we'll discuss whether we need an official code of conduct another time... I'm not entirely sure where that would fall either. External communications would definitely be for the Poli-Board, but internal could theoretically be either. [23:08] <@Rintaran> And that's the meeting then. I'll upload the transcript and turn in. [23:09] <@Rintaran> G'night Shawn... [23:10] <@svulliez> Night brother, keep the flames of revolution burning
 * want* to be a member, their contribution is going to be shite

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