GM 2014-04-16 transcript

  Well it's about 15 minutes till we start... I guess we should get people checking in  ok hit me  Pirate One standing by  TravisMcCrea: did the border thought police attack you recently?  I'll take it that RLim is doing the check ins  those stories are awesome  I mean, entertainingly awesome with topics that are facepalming  TravisMcCrea: I wish the border people would break my phone. It sucks  XFaCE no, typically after I do a post... then I get 1-2 months of free travel across the border  lol  wow  TravisMcCrea: NSA memos I guess  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlN0fz7CcAAvdqY.jpg  normally I would not use that expression in front of an actual person  message me and check your e-mails <CCitizen> if phillipsjk is here then we have 4/10 o. <CCitizen> TravisMcCrea, too bad most people are stupid as to what a private key actually does <RLim> oh yeah we are at 10 quorum now. Let's hope we at least make quorum tonight <XFaCE> CCitizen: You stick it up a vagina <XFaCE> #darkcomedy I don't have a vagina. <CCitizen> hah Or did I pop in halfway through something? <XFaCE> rekabis: hahah pop <XFaCE> winner <CCitizen> 3 more people <XFaCE> how many more for climax? 10 for full release <CCitizen> Lemme see who have I seen at GMs before... drew, McGrath, TravisMcCrea ? <webchat_8329> ? <webchat_0488> sorry, I'm a little late <CCitizen> we got a few people on webchat too <RLim> webchat_0488: is wilson <XFaCE> Wilson: mr. leader <XFaCE> TravisMcCrea: mr. ex-leader <CCitizen> TravisMcCrea didnt check in yet <TravisMcCrea> I am kinda checked in <TravisMcCrea> :P I said I was here <CCitizen> well get Ric to voice you hehe <XFaCE> TravisMcCrea: message Rlim with /msg Rlim /me hits Rlim <Wilson> XFaCE, please refrain from feeding my ego or I'll have you kow-towing before long. ;P <XFaCE> Wilson: very well, I'll do the opposite; aren't you a dumb conservative you dumb dumb? <XFaCE> (EGO DEFLATION COMPLETE) <XFaCE> /sarcasm <CCitizen> So we got 7/10 people voiced I believe. <CCitizen> If we dont make quorum by 8:30 we'll vote on a motion to adjourn. No point in wasting everyone's time if we dont have a quorum Unfortunate, but agreed. <XFaCE> likewise hi hold on <CCitizen> Well if drew is here that makes 8 <Wilson> So the joint press release got some pretty good coverage. Have to share attention with the other parties but the point that pretty much everyone opposes the changes to the EC Act got through. <XFaCE> Wilson: wait what? <XFaCE> so there were amendments to the EC act, which we already opposed, and now we oppose the amendments as wlel? <XFaCE> *well <XFaCE> "everyone opposes the changes to the EC Act got through" <XFaCE> ^this is unclear <Wilson> http://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/politics/inside-politics-blog/2014/04/smaller-parties-join-forces-to-fight-proposed-election-law-changes.html <XFaCE> ohhhh <XFaCE> every party that opposed it got promoted in the story <RLim> sorry got dc <XFaCE> that makes more sense <XFaCE> *mentioned <CCitizen> Yeah too bad Jim Flaherty kicking the bucket drowned out a lot of stuff the past couple of days... <XFaCE> CCitizen: he looked terrible near the end <CCitizen> drew, you should message RLim to check in that would be 9 <Wilson> iPolitics also covered it which gives us this quote "The list of strange bedfellows ranges from The Christian Heritage party to the Libertarian party, and even the Pirate party." <-Why does it say 'even the pirate party'? <XFaCE> Wilson: because they are retarded that was kinda annoying <XFaCE> Pirate Party? Hyuck hyuck ARRRGGGH snickle-snort we did better in the last election than many of them <XFaCE> like what, we oppose election act changes that sabotage us? The Pirate Party: Silly Name, Serious Issues. <CCitizen> Because we're a radical political party because we dont have a seat in the house of commons... It wasnt long ago they were doing the same about the green party <XFaCE> Nooooo really? (at least re: performance) And you can quote me on that tagline. <XFaCE> Action Party, lulz <XFaCE> I know one supporter of that <XFaCE> their idea are interesting at least <Wilson> Tentatively we will be on Power & Politics tomorrow. Overall, its been a busy week. really? that's awesome! <XFaCE> wait, we? <XFaCE> Wilson: you? <XFaCE> Wilson: Quick, review your Falkvinge <CCitizen> Ric was infront of the Senate Committee looking over C-23 a few days ago <Wilson> the party (I'm not a royal), I will be on a plane most of thursday <XFaCE> I mean, I could represent the party. I'm said to have a natural and deep radio voice <Wilson> thats quorum <RLim> TravisMcCrea: check your pirateparty e-mail for verification code <RLim> sorry have not verify your id <CCitizen> Alright I count 10 voiced people <CCitizen> That means we have Quorum it's time for this meeting to get started. <CCitizen> All off-topic commentary to #canada-riffraff channel. <CCitizen> Does anyone have anything to report right now? I want to talk about the VPN. Should I report this now? <RLim> Election Act. But info are already on website and facebook <RLim> oh yeah thanks drew <CCitizen> We'll hear from drew first then since he was the first to speak up and well I've been wanting to hear some news about possibly offering a VPN service again. <Wilson> fine by me (also, nothin' to report) I want to know if there's interest in reopening the VPN service we used to offer. I already setup a version for testing, and I am willing to maintain it. The only issue I heard is that there can be strict regulations for keeping logs. But I think if we do the best we can according to law, then it is better than nothing Also, Pirate Linux is slowly but surely advancing. I released an alpha version of the Gentoo version two weeks ago, and I have some experienced Gentoo developers willing to contribute. I want to get something complete ready for the next election to hand out, and I think it would be good if we could bundle it with a VPN. <CCitizen> There was interest at one point but it was deemed too risky to put under our main host umbrella. We at one point were purchasing a VM from buyvm.com for like $5/mo but never really got it configured properly and shut down the vm in question <XFaCE> For anyone unaware, here is an article regarding the logging laws for VPNs http://torrentfreak.com/canada-wants-vpns-to-log-and-warn-pirating-customers-131011/ <CCitizen> This way if our VPN gets hit with DMCA complaints and such it will not affect our website, email and other services we rely on from our IT infrastructure ya so it can be on another host <XFaCE> CCitizen: But we operate on a .ca domain <XFaCE> DMCAs don't effect us so should we set a motion today or do we need more time to decide. Like maybe next general meeting? <CCitizen> Yeah but many canadian hosts follow and honour DMCA requests. <CCitizen> Last time we ran the VPN we charged $10/mo and considered the cost $3/mo so each month was treated as a $7 contribution to the party. It also meant we could only service Canadian clients since only Permanent Residents and Citizens are allowed to contribute to a political party. ya it's a good source of income and also tax refundable for the clients <XFaCE> That's a very reasonable price as well <XFaCE> the cheapest I've seen is around $5 USD <RLim> We still owe some people and some continue to contribute although we don't have it up for a while now <RLim> We should just lay out the Canadian law <RLim> did it passed? <CCitizen> RLim, we have noone contributing on a monthly basis anymore for the VPN service. Jake cancelled all those I believe. I'll be back in 2 min. sorry I am late; was doing the previous meeting minutes beyond last-minute. <CCitizen> Well I do believe we have a standing order that give the President power to spend up to $100 a day. Therefore we do not necessarily have to wait for the next GM to purchase a VM hosting service to try this out. <CCitizen> drew: Quick question. Are you still part of the IT Committee and on the mailing list for the IT Team? https://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php?title=GM_2014-03-19_minutes <RLim> CCitizen: I still see some regular monthly of $10 and that's one of the complainant was doind $10 monthly <RLim> SO obviously not everyone got cancelled <CCitizen> Well I've only seen yearly on the agent mailing list so I'm goign to assume all the VPN ones cancelled and the only ones remaining are for membership fees. CCitizen: I don't think I was ever on the IT committee <RLim> drew we'll add you then I just participated in the irc <CCitizen> Ah ok then let me make a motion <RLim> CCitizen: check paypal. monthly does not show on mailing list <RLim> for some reason <CCitizen> MOTION: Appoint drew to the IT Committee and give the IT Director and Executive Board control over his appointment. As well give him permission to set up a VPN service for testing purposes and report his findings to the next GM. Technically I am logged in from drew's test VPN :) <Wilson> second <RLim> ... <CCitizen> Alright does anyone want to discuss it or should we assume the previous comments served as sufficient discussion? <XFaCE> I'm pessimistic about following the logging rules so it just means I can vote right <XFaCE> VPNs that do so are the target for avoidance <XFaCE> publicized by sites like Torrentfreak Have the logging rules been announced yet? In the absence of regulation we can log as much or as little as we want. <XFaCE> well, having a private vpn that logs identifying info is kinda pointless Well, I believe that we should be able to be fully anonymized. <CCitizen> We could also purchase hosting outside of canada where jurisdictions do not require logging the other option is just to redirect people to a foreign VPN, but in either case if you want anonymity you will need to go through Tor as well <XFaCE> sorry, that's correct, it isn't "anonymous" like tor is <CCitizen> Also we could potentially expand to offer many sources for VPN exit points like commercial ones do later on <XFaCE> still, a foreign VPN partnership is a viable option I think we should explore that, but we want to be able to make something from this <XFaCE> I say we shouldn't log until informed to do so otherwise Agreed. <XFaCE> There are still logless Canadian VPNs running <CCitizen> not really since we cant be paid by foreign entities but I think we can pay foreign businesses to do stuff for us (like the robocalls that the Liberals used were out of some US city) <XFaCE> http://torrentfreak.com/which-vpn-services-take-your-anonymity-seriously-2014-edition-140315/ <XFaCE> BTguard is in Canada <CCitizen> Alright then should we proceed to voting... i'm sure all this stuff can be discussed with drew when we're not in a meeting and presented in his findings at the next GM. Also some Canadians will trust us more because we operate here and not in some foreign country where Canadian law cannot be used ok <XFaCE> just one other question, is drew volunteering or will he be an employee? I was always a volunteer <CCitizen> drew are you self-employed? I'm not getting paid for this no I'm not self employed <CCitizen> ok good <CCitizen> Lets begin Voting now Yes? <Wilson> aye <CCitizen> Voting On: MOTION: Appoint drew to the IT Committee and give the IT Director and Executive Board control over his appointment. As well give him permission to set up a VPN service for testing purposes and report his findings to the next GM. <CCitizen> aye aye aye aye <MononcQc> abstain <CCitizen> (I really need to get some sort of ping macro like other people had doing this) <XFaCE> aye I was thinking of looking up stennobot. <CCitizen> phillipsjk, RLim drew thor Wilson <Wilson> yes? phillipsjk: i have an old copy on github ok can I aye for myself? <RLim> aye <Wilson> aye I think that's enough aye <CCitizen> Alright... 7 Yes, 1 Abstain, 0 Nos. It's passed. <CCitizen> Next I believe RLim is going to tell us how much money we have left in the party's coffers so we have an idea of how we're doing financially. <RLim> ok <RLim> $3,649.81 on bank account <RLim> $1,000 plus on Paypal <RLim> I want to suggest offering merchandize like donation of $100 or more gets a flag <RLim> but our flags are awol <RLim> Andrew gave it to Jeremy Crowe and he have not been responding to our e-mail <RLim> ANyone see him at hackserspace in Toronto? Has andrew confirmed the flags were ever picked up? <CCitizen> I really dont hang out in the downtown core <CCitizen> We dont know if the flags were even picked up... Last communication I had with him seemed to imply they were not picked up <RLim> yeah and Jeremy confirmed he got it <CCitizen> Ah well then that works out <RLim> Original Message <RLim> Subject: Re: Flags (again) (plus back-up update) <RLim> Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2014 20:46:46 -0500 <RLim> From: Jeremy Crow <RLim> I picked up the flags on Friday. Sorry I didn't get a chance to mention it until now. <RLim> Regards, <RLim> Jer <RLim> So how much are those flags worth? <CCitizen> Alright... well keep trying to contact him. Looks like we're decent in terms of money stored up <RLim> yeah but should we refund everyone who paid to get a flag? <RLim> Not sure how many there were. I don't think it's that many <CCitizen> Yes I think we should at this point. Do we know how many flags we ordered? <RLim> I have to check <RLim> let's move on for now <RLim> we'll take this offline <CCitizen> Lemme see if they're the ones on the swedish site then it's about $20 per flag <CCitizen> Anyways yes moving on... <CCitizen> Does anyone know when our service with our current server host ends? I had a feeling we got involved with OVH around August last year maybe July. <MononcQc> OVH? I was planning on checking Andrew's invoice for that (and the proxmox subscription) <CCitizen> Alright... well I was checking the OVH website and they seem to have moved the servers we purchased to another division soyoustart.com. Moving to that hosting would save us over $500 on our hosting for next year for basically the same server capacity we have now. Hell we could get that and a backup server for the same price we were paying last year. <CCitizen> Anyways that's just a bit of an update on our financial situation... <RLim> interesting that they changed their domain <RLim> *they've <CCitizen> RLim, actually it looks like they're rebranding those as 'entry level' servers and ovh stuff as enterprise sort of stuff <Wilson> Perhaps we could discuss our headless committee and its lack of life? :) <CCitizen> I'd also like to call attention to the fact that we are currently looking for someone who is willing to volunteer to do the job of IT Director. In order to be considered for this position you would ideally need to NOT be self-employed as such causes much headaches for the party and know what they're doing. I am not self-employed any more. I am actually on-board with a national cloud service/hosting provider now. <CCitizen> Well then get into contact with the executive board after the meeting... executiveboard@pirateparty.ca ... they are responsible for handling that. <TravisMcCrea> rekabis from what I understand you cannot be doing any work in the field at all it's not the field as I recall, but the job has to be substantially different. <CCitizen> TravisMcCrea, no it's if they are self-employed *OR* doing things for the Party during their work hours that it counts as a non-montary donation to the party. <RLim> ^ rekabis - do you manage teams/projects where you work? <RLim> as long as he do ppca stuff after office hours self-employed often don't have office hours. ;) <CCitizen> Or when you're not 'on the clock'... Some IT places have weird hours with shifts and stuff <CCitizen> yeah self-employed is considered to always be on the clock ;) <RLim> psema4: he is not self-employed <TravisMcCrea> RLim have you asked Elections Canada for clarification <CCitizen> hence why we dont want someone who is self employed <RLim> yeah that's what they said during that financial course for riding association <RLim> as long as it is off their work hours TravisMcCrea, I have the guidance bookmarked somewhere. <RLim> phillipsjk: do you concur? <TravisMcCrea> When I asked at the ACPP meeting it didn't seem that way <RLim> I can easily fire off e-mail to our contact to be sure <RLim> I remember they even have Q&A to check our understanding and that cause a bit of confusion <TravisMcCrea> and it makes sense when you don't apply it to our party: big parties could do so much, and not need to pay anyone. Things that we would need to. <RLim> and whining about self-employed unable to help <TravisMcCrea> I am just saying to ask for specific clarification... CYA <RLim> yeah will do thanks <CCitizen> Big parties just hire IT staff and pay them. We have to find places where we can save money whenever possible. <TravisMcCrea> Later on saying "well we read the rule differently" wont really be an acceptable answer :P <TravisMcCrea> CCitizen I agree :) I just don't want the party to get caught later <TravisMcCrea> if it's wrong <TravisMcCrea> Especially if we have to back pay people thousands of dollars http://elections.ca/content.aspx?section=res&dir=rep/oth/jan2007&document=part5&lang=e <TravisMcCrea> phillipsjk after reading that I think we are fine <CCitizen> Another thing is we have a vacancy in the Project Development Committee for the Project Manager... basically it's sorta a bit of R&D and fundraising rolled into one. The VPN we discussed earlier would be considered under that when it gets operational... The goal is to have a bunch of stuff that we can sell or services we can provide to Canadians that will give us as a party a steady income stream. <RLim> thanks phillipsjk <RLim> ad TravisMcCrea for pushing for clarification rather than hearsay lol <RLim> *and We also have a vancancy for vice president <CCitizen> Yes... we have a vacancy for vice president position and should probably take nominations and run a by-election to fill it. <CCitizen> And for the former topic... As former holder of the position of Project Manager you can always ask me for advice I have plenty of mental notes to offer for all the various projects I had ready to go and how things operate. Again contact the Executive Board if interested in the position. <CCitizen> I'm going to open up nominations for the Vice President position I nominate CraigNobbs <CCitizen> He's the one that left the position for the Deputy Leader position <RLim> hmm not sure if that would work since the constitutional amendment have not apssed <RLim> *passed Yes, I also plan to give notice of a constitutional amendment to allow him to hold both positions. (A simpler one) <RLim> ok <CCitizen> We would end up in the same position we are in now if it does not pass as well... Also giving notice now means we vote to send it to all party ballot next month which would be after the VP by-election is completed. Hmm, true, that math does not quite work <CCitizen> How about we solve this the easy way... I nominate Ric Lim for Vice President He is already over-worked <CCitizen> He's not doing secretary duties anymore... and well he knows the job well enough that he can take over if I get hit by a bus or something. We could just leave the position vacant another month <CCitizen> Hmm... possibly... Do we want to though? what's the harm in nominating people now? ..I am not seeing a lot of nominations. Doing the nominations now would be ideal. <CCitizen> Also even if we did change the constitution... I do not think it'd be a good idea to allow someone to occupy two positions on the EB simultaneously. I have no qualms against someone sitting on the PC as a council member and the EB as an officer position but to have someone sitting as deputy leader and vice president would be rather silly as it decreases the number of voices True. My proposed amendment won't cover that. <CCitizen> The original purpose behind the limitation was to ensure we had a minimum of 7 separate voices in the leadership (5 EB, 5 PC with 2 overlapping both as leader/deputy leader). people running for EB were supposed to have no political aspirations (ie. not going to run in a riding) to make administrative stuff easier Understood :) <CCitizen> We also needed 3 officers for the party and 3 officers for the fund which is where we get president/vp/secretary from <CCitizen> I have a motion to fix this My proposed motion is to strike "The positions of President, Vice-President and Secretary shall not be eligible to hold a position on the Political Council." from Article IV of the constitution. <CCitizen> MOTION: Accept nominations for the Vice President position for a period of 1 week following the GM by way of the member's forums. After that week all nominated individuals will be placed on a ballot to be voted on as per our constitution to fill the vacant seat. Results will be put into immediate effect and any concerns or questions about the election can be brought up at the next GM. <CCitizen> How does that look? Gives a bigger window for the nomination process and gives the IT team a directive to work with for voting time which is usually 1 week. second. <CCitizen> Anyone have anything to say about my motion before we take it to a vote? >#canada< anybody awake? <MononcQc> only members should be nominated I guess, but that's included? <CCitizen> VOTE ON: MOTION: Accept nominations for the Vice President position for a period of 1 week following the GM by way of the member's forums. After that week all nominated individuals will be placed on a ballot to be voted on as per our constitution to fill the vacant seat. Results will be put into immediate effect and any concerns or questions about the election can be brought up at the next GM. phillipsjk RLim drew MononcQc mordecai psema4 rekabis t <CCitizen> hor TravisMcCrea Wilson XFaCE <MononcQc> aye <CCitizen> Yeah that would be a requirement aye aye <CCitizen> aye Aye. <TravisMcCrea> aye <Wilson> abstain aye aye <CCitizen> 8 For, 0 Against, 1 Abstain. Motion Passed. I would like to give NOTICE for a Constitutional amendment to strike "The positions of President, Vice-President and Secretary shall not be eligible to hold a position on the Political Council." from Article IV of the constitution. <CCitizen> seconded <Wilson> notices don't need seconds. <CCitizen> Oh right <CCitizen> That's actually the way I would have handled it... Now does anyone have any other business for the GM? <Wilson> I motion to adjourn. <CCitizen> Alright then motion to adjourn is on the table. <CCitizen> VOTE NOW <CCitizen> aye <Wilson> aye aye aye. aye aye <CCitizen> Alright... 6 for, 0 Against. This meeting is over. See you all next month. 2 Hours; progress. almost started on time to boot :) <Wilson> i know, eh <CCitizen> about a half hour late on starting but yeah we got alot done <CCitizen> I hope all the meetings go this smoothly <CCitizen> First time I got stuck handling the job of chair :) <CCitizen> who needs RROO to run a meeting :D Did we have a formal agenda at all? <CCitizen> Not really... I mean we had financial details, position openings and the VP by-election and constitutional amendment notification <CCitizen> I had an idea of what needed to be done and made sure we got what needed to be done completed :)
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 * CCitizen has changed the topic to: GM: In Progress. Contact RLim to check in for quorum and voting privileges if you are a member. | For visitors who want to ask a question, allow 5-15 minutes for someone to answer on IRC. You can also post a question at  our subreddit /r/piratepartyofcanada
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