EB 2013-02-17 transcript



All times are in central time

18:46 <@JohannWeiss> I'm calling this meeting to order 18:46 <@JohannWeiss> I will chair, Rlim will take minutes 18:47 <@JohannWeiss> We have no agenda, so bring forward any moitions 18:48 yo 18:48 < RLim> yay 18:48 < RLim> WIlson is here 18:48 <@JohannWeiss> Hey wilson 18:48 < Wilson> Anything exciting on the agenda? 18:48 <@CCitizen> Actually I think there will be... adpaolucci has something 18:49 <@JohannWeiss> go ahead adpaolucci 18:49 < RLim> I am working on a cash flow report for January/February to present for the GM 18:49 < RLim> oops sorry. 18:49 * RLim shutup now 18:49 <@adpaolucci> New motion: Lease server from OVH for a period of 1 year and purchase a lifetime license for iRedAdmin-Pro(mail service) 18:50 <@adpaolucci> That is the quick motion, I am currently working on a IT Action Plan / Roadmap 18:50 <@adpaolucci> 5 year plan 18:50 < Wilson> Can you give us the costs? 18:50 <@adpaolucci>        $1068.00 CAD/Yearly(for server) 18:50 <@adpaolucci>        $599 USD/Once(for iRedAdmin-Pro License) 18:51 <@JohannWeiss> What would the iRedAdmin-Pro give us? 18:52 <@adpaolucci> A full control panel for mailing lists and accounts 18:52 <@CCitizen> For reference I believe iWeb is costing us like $200/mo? 18:52 < RLim> I know it's a control panel 18:53 <@adpaolucci> CCitizen: it might be more then that 18:53 < RLim> but what major advantage does it have 18:53 < RLim> ? 18:53 <@adpaolucci> The major advantage? Well in the future we won't need to have someone spend days slaving to maintain the mail server 18:54 <@adpaolucci> this has everything ranging from mailing lists to backup jobs built in 18:54 <@JohannWeiss> That's sound like a plus 18:54 <@CCitizen> Also it's a one time cost so the longer we use it the cheaper it is ultimately 18:54 < RLim> can we manage our mail using other general control panel 18:54 < RLim> ? 18:54 < Wilson> @cc that is what appeals to me 18:54 <@CCitizen> Use it for 10 y ears and it's basically cost us like $60/year 18:54 < RLim> Like plesk and cp? 18:54 < RLim> I am not opposing just trying to understand it a bit more 18:54 <@adpaolucci> RLim: short answer no 18:55 <@JMcleod> I dont get what it can give us, are there alternatives? 18:55 <@CCitizen> isnt plesk ones for setting up server accounts? 18:55 <@adpaolucci> This control panel is focused on email, and gives us complete control 18:55 < RLim> plesk have mailing and mailing list also 18:56 <@adpaolucci> This panel is also open source so we can easily make changes to it. 18:56 <@adpaolucci> RLim: is it built into the mail system? 18:56 < RLim> if it makes managing e-mail so much better $600 might not be much 18:56 <@adpaolucci> meaning account controls and everything 18:56 < RLim> for personal use it would be but since e-mail is crucial to us 18:57 <@CCitizen> Well consider the money we're saving by switching away from iWeb 18:57 < Wilson> I'm posting to (what I think) is the list of features. At the bottom http://www.iredmail.org/admin_panel.html 18:57 < RLim> hope I am not getting too off topic. But what server do we have with iweb? how does it compare to OVH? 18:58 <@adpaolucci> current server 18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	Gentoo 18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	10TB 18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	100Mbps port 18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	i3 - Dual Core - 3.06Ghz H/T 18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	8GB RAM 18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	2x1TB SATA2 Raid 1 18:58 <@adpaolucci> not sure on the price for it, but it is well above the one at OVH 18:58 <@CCitizen> We're not off topic since the motion is about funding the OVH server and getting an email management system 18:58 <@CCitizen> Might want to show them the stats for the OVH one you were suggesting 18:58 <@adpaolucci> This is the OVH server: 18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	Proxmox 18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	100Mbps 18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	Intel Xeon E3 1245v2 - 4 Cores - 3.4GHz+ 18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	32 RAM 18:58 <@adpaolucci> 	2x2TB SATA3 Raid(Soft) 1 18:59 <@adpaolucci> 	/28 IP Block 18:59 <@adpaolucci> 	$1068.00 CAD/Yearly 18:59 <@adpaolucci> It's worth it for the xeons alone 18:59 <@JMcleod> WTF is proxmox? 18:59 <@adpaolucci> proxmox is a VMware alternative 18:59 <@JMcleod> Oh ok 18:59 <@adpaolucci> virtualization control panel, it's open source and free 19:00 <@JMcleod> Will the new server be based on debian/ubuntu? 19:00 <@adpaolucci> other then the host OS, no 19:00 <@adpaolucci> everything is going to be CentOS 19:00 <@CCitizen> I think we're paying almost $200/mo for iWeb which is somethinglike $2400/year 19:00 <@JMcleod> In any case 19:00 <@JMcleod> I move to drop and purchase a lifetime license for iRedAdmin-Pro(mail service) from the current motion 19:01 <@JMcleod> I move to drop "and purchase a lifetime license for iRedAdmin-Pro(mail service)" from the current motion 19:01 <@JMcleod> The idea is to have 2 seperate votes 19:01 < Wilson> i second 19:01 < RLim> move to vote on first motion? 19:01 < Wilson> we need to consider both in depth which is made easier if kept seperate 19:02 <@JohannWeiss> Is anyone opposed to splitting it into two votes? 19:02 <@adpaolucci> I am 19:02 <@JohannWeiss> Care to elaborate 19:02 <@adpaolucci> I want to pass the motion in one batch, we need the new server, and we need the control panel to setup our mail server ASAP 19:02 <@CCitizen> I think the mail service one is a good investment in the long run if it makes things easier for future IT... 19:03 <@CCitizen> Part of the problem we're dealing with is the fact we've been in limbo in terms of server and email for weeks or months 19:03 <@JohannWeiss> (splitting them doesn't necessarily mean one will pass and not the other, it just makes it possible) 19:03 < Wilson> All goes well both will be passed tonight, Adpaolucci. But right now we are jumping back and forth. 19:04 <@adpaolucci> The current official email server has been blackholing about 80% of emails 19:04 <@adpaolucci> I would like them both to be passed together as I need both to get everything up and running 19:05 <@CCitizen> I think we've discussed enough on both aspects of the original topic... perhaps we could talk about specifics to the mail service if people have issues with it? 19:05 <@JohannWeiss> Well an amendment was proposed and seconded, so we have to either debate/vote on it or the mover can decide to rescind it. 19:06 <@CCitizen> ok lets get it done then 19:06 <@JohannWeiss> If it isn't rescinded then we can vote on the amendment (splitting them). If there is further discussion, say so now. 19:07 <@JohannWeiss> 60 sec 19:07 <@adpaolucci> ok, split it 19:07 <@JohannWeiss> all in favour of splitting the original moption say aye, all opposed say nay 19:07 <@JMcleod> aye 19:08 < Wilson> aye 19:08 < RLim> aye 19:08 <@adpaolucci> abstain 19:08 <@JohannWeiss> aye 19:08 <@CCitizen> aye 19:09 <@CCitizen> might as well discuss them separately since I think people want to talk more about the mail thing 19:09 <@JohannWeiss> the amendment passes, 5 in favor, 1 abstain 19:09 < Wilson> Current motion? 19:09 <@JohannWeiss> So now the first motion is to "Lease server from OVH for a period of 1 year 19:10 <@CCitizen> should we proceed to voting on that? 19:10 <@JohannWeiss> We will vote unless someone requests discussion within 60 sec 19:10 <@adpaolucci> I second that 19:10 < Broken_Syntax> (sorry trying to catch up.) 19:11 <@JohannWeiss> You want a minutes or two to read before we vote? 19:11 < Broken_Syntax> (almost done.) 19:12 < Broken_Syntax> (okay caught up, thank you.) 19:12 <@JohannWeiss> Voting on the main motion: To lease a server from OVH for a period of 1 year 19:12 < Broken_Syntax> adpaolucci, you currently the mail server admin? 19:12 <@JohannWeiss> wait 19:13 <@JohannWeiss> sorry, I thought you meant you were ready to vote 19:13 <@JohannWeiss> Discuss further 19:13 < RLim> his question is more for 2nd motion I thinik 19:13 < RLim> *think 19:13 <@JohannWeiss> You are correct 19:13 <@CCitizen> adpaolucci is our IT Director at the moment 19:13 < RLim> does Broken_Syntax proxying for someone? 19:13 < RLim> *is 19:14 < RLim> or does he get to vote on EB? 19:14 < RLim> not trying to be a jerk :P 19:14 <@CCitizen> Can we vote on approving the expenditure for the server? 19:14 < Broken_Syntax> Hmm, could point RLim :P 19:14 <@CCitizen> then we can talk more about the mail control panel/service 19:14 <@JohannWeiss> You're right Ric 19:14 <@JohannWeiss> Alright 19:14 < RLim> but I would love more people joining discussion 19:14 <@JohannWeiss> Time to vote 19:15 < Wilson> Aye 19:15 < RLim> aye 19:15 <@JohannWeiss> aye 19:15 <@CCitizen> aye 19:15 <@adpaolucci> aye 19:15 <@JMcleod> aye 19:15 <@JohannWeiss> Votes passes, 6 in favour, 0 against 19:15 < RLim> Broken_Syntax: so please give your input 19:16 <@JohannWeiss> Now the main motion is to purchase a lifetime license for iRedAdmin-Pro(mail service) 19:17 <@JMcleod> I am a bit worried for that given that in the past year there were 0 success stories 19:17 <@JMcleod> So the main questions are 19:17 <@JMcleod> Does adpaolucci have experience with it since he will be the one setting it up? 19:17 <@adpaolucci> I currently have a version of their free software running on one of my servers 19:18 <@CCitizen> Is that the roundcube thing you had me check out? 19:18 < Broken_Syntax> Well, I'm out of touch with the current set-up a little. I have some experience with CentOS servers and find their administration to be fairly straightforward. Proxmox I haven't used, but if adpaolucci is confident in it I trust his opinion. That leaves just the iRedMail solution as a wildcard. Price seems good, do we know anything about the company, its longterm support goals and costs, existing track record? 19:18 < RLim> also, is it easy to learn in case adpaolucci quit or someone wants to manage it 19:18 < RLim> ? 19:18 < Broken_Syntax> And that one. 19:18 <@JMcleod> has adpaolucci gone through http://www.iredmail.org/forum/forum2-iredmail-support.html to see if there was actual support? 19:18 <@adpaolucci> The reason I want to go with this control panel is that it is easy to manage in case I leave 19:19 <@JohannWeiss> (I need to step out for 5 minutes, continue discussing) 19:19 <@CCitizen> I think most of the choices adpaolucci has been making has been with future administration in mind as well as his own. Partly why he suggested a change from Debian to CentOS 19:19 <@adpaolucci> JMcleod: I actually emailed them for support with a server I had running it 19:19 < Broken_Syntax> And you mentioned it is open source. Do we know what language(s) and has anyone vetted the code for readability and design? Is it modular/easily expandable etc.? 19:20 < RLim> it says open source free version? SO is Pro open source also? 19:20 <@adpaolucci> the pro code is not open source 19:20 <@JMcleod> RLim: http://www.iredmail.org/admin_demo.html 19:20 <@adpaolucci> but you are given a copy of the source code when you buy a license 19:21 < Broken_Syntax> So not truly open source, but you're capable of making modifications. Likely at the expense of official support channels. 19:21 < Broken_Syntax> (the pro verison) 19:21 < RLim> and you can create module or plugin for it? 19:21 < Broken_Syntax> version* 19:21 <@adpaolucci> the base systems are open source 19:21 <@adpaolucci> the control panel is not 19:21 < Broken_Syntax> Aha 19:21 <@adpaolucci> The software is solid, the question is do we want a long term control panel for email so that someone else other then me can manage it 19:21 < Broken_Syntax> That makes sense. 19:22 < RLim> what is our backend? 19:22 < RLim> database 19:22 <@JohannWeiss> (back) 19:22 <@CCitizen> yeah... I figure it's a good investment for now and future mail related tasks 19:22 <@adpaolucci> there is no better control panel for the price, the only other options are; open-exchange(paid), zimbra(paid), exchange(paid) 19:22 <@adpaolucci> Our backend is LDAP 19:22 <@CCitizen> Also... currently we've got some temporary solution on one of adpaolucci's servers running the free version atm 19:23 < Broken_Syntax> scalix (paid beyond I think 20 users.) 19:24 <@JMcleod> how much are the alternatives? 19:24 < Broken_Syntax> It sounds decent, and the control panel is intuitive? 19:24 <@JMcleod> control panel looks easy enough at first glance 19:24 < RLim> wordpress / drupal like interface 19:25 <@adpaolucci> : yes 19:25 < Wilson> @JMcleod Unless the otherones also have lifetime deals thins one would be cheapest 19:25 < RLim> how expandable is it? are there large community developing plugin? 19:25 <@JMcleod> Should our members ask for the source code, can we give it to them? 19:25 < Wilson> augh * other ones  *this 19:26 < RLim> JMcleod: we can easily designate someone as IT so technically their working forus 19:26 <@adpaolucci> There are no plugins. We can't share the code openly 19:26 < RLim> *for us 19:26 <@JMcleod> ok good point rlim 19:26 < Broken_Syntax> Last mail server I administrated that wasn't MS Exchange was a Horde-Mail project, tied in with Plesk for account administration... As mentioned before Plesk handles a host of other things (such as web-server hosting) but I keep coming back to one-time purchase model being a major + in the long term if iRedMail has the support and will continue to be around. 19:27 <@JMcleod> Is iredmail just 1 guy or many guys? 19:28 <@adpaolucci> It's a company 19:29 < RLim> BTW, does not look like we have outstanding bill with iweb. Paypal shows payment on January 20th of $166.88 19:29 < RLim> so sooner we move to new server sooner we can cancel our iweb account 19:29 < Broken_Syntax> Open-Xchange server pricing: http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.open-xchange.com%2Ffileadmin%2Fuser_upload%2Fopen-xchange%2Fdocument%2Fpricelist%2Fpricelist.pdf&ei=8YMhUfXOAoXU0gGP9IG4DA&usg=AFQjCNFtfgi_Wm0zkewM_ES-_5BMgdwjQA&bvm=bv.42553238,d.dmQ 19:29 <@adpaolucci> I still need time to set it up 19:29 <@CCitizen> Ah ok so its about $170... not $200 like I thought 19:30 <@adpaolucci> Broken_Syntax: I know nothing of Open-Xchange and don't plan on it. 19:30 < Broken_Syntax> Since it was asked, looked about $200 per 10 users per year. 19:30 <@CCitizen> Also... I'd say official we could direct them to the company's open source options and mention we have a service contract which offers additional functionality 19:30 < Broken_Syntax> adpaolucci, (Pricing of alternatives was asked about, just approaching that.) 19:31 <@JMcleod> Just wondering, could the PPca sell email management? 19:31 <@CCitizen> are there any lifetime ones? 19:31 <@CCitizen> Actually 19:31 <@CCitizen> Jake wanted to sell piratemail.ca to us for use as a webmail type thing 19:32 < RLim> well if we want to do piratemail 19:32 < RLim> as a hotmail type service 19:32 < Broken_Syntax> Scalix looks to be even pricier. 19:32 <@JMcleod> yeah, if we do piratemail 19:32 <@JMcleod> we need something very robust 19:32 < RLim> and have it as pay what you want model 19:32 <@CCitizen> Well can we vote on the email control panel now? 19:33 <@JohannWeiss> Any objections to voting on the main motion (60sec)? 19:34 <@CCitizen> None here 19:34 <@JohannWeiss> We are now voting the current motion to purchase a lifetime license for iRedAdmin-Pro(mail service) 19:34 <@JohannWeiss> all in favour, say aye all against, nay 19:34 <@adpaolucci> aye 19:34 < RLim> aye 19:34 < Wilson> aye 19:34 <@JohannWeiss> aye 19:34 <@JMcleod> nay 19:36 <@JohannWeiss> CCitizen? 19:37 <@CCitizen> aye 19:37 <@JohannWeiss> Motion passes, 5 in favour, 1 opposed 19:38 <@JMcleod> Regardless, if you buy a LDAP can you switch to mysql if IT in 5 years decide to change? 19:39 <@adpaolucci> nope 19:39 <@adpaolucci> but that is just for the auth system 19:39 < Wilson> ok. Adpaolucci/others how long before you can get this purchased and set up? 19:39 < Broken_Syntax> http://www.iredmail.org/forum/topic1355-iredmail-support-how-to-convert-ldap-backend-to-mysql.html 19:39 <@adpaolucci> and we are inacting LDAP accross all systems 19:40 <@adpaolucci> Wilson: if all goes to plan, we purchase the server Monday and it will be ready by mid week, and the rest of the week for testing 19:41 < RLim> does LDAP works on phpmyadmin 19:41 <@JohannWeiss> Don't do any server changing until after the EB election. 19:41 < RLim> more like it's version I guess since my is for mysql 19:41 <@CCitizen> LDAP makes administration easier too... For those of you with MS backgrounds it does much of what Active Directory does. It basically keeps track of who is allowed to access what resources from a central location 19:41 <@CCitizen> Instead of having to maintain logins for each VM separately 19:41 < RLim> but is it efficient? or is it like MS Windows? :P 19:42 <@CCitizen> Actually LDAP came first I think then MS stole it for their Active Directory/Server stuff and bloated it up 19:42 < Broken_Syntax> Active Directory is built on LDAP and there are several standard LDAP tools that will interact with it's schema. 19:42 < RLim> I am comfortable running a sql script but not sure about LDAP 19:42 < Broken_Syntax> its8 19:42 < Broken_Syntax> * 19:44 <@CCitizen> Thankfully LDAP costs $0 :D 19:45 <@JMcleod> Well, LDAP is an IT choice, they can debate it there :P 19:45 <@CCitizen> I think it's already been done... it's part of the IT plan that's been proposed 19:46 <@CCitizen> Just because it simplifies the administration of resource access which is important when you're dealing with like half a dozen VM's 19:46 < RLim> how does the performance compares to say postgressql 19:46 < RLim> ? 19:47 <@CCitizen> LDAP is used for authentication. I dont think you can directly c ompare to like MySQL or postresql 19:47 < RLim> so could mysql run behind LDAP 19:47 < RLim> LDAP as authentication layer 19:47 < RLim> not sure if it works like that 19:48 <@adpaolucci> for what though? 19:48 <@adpaolucci> MySQL is still used by the email system 19:48 <@adpaolucci> just not for authentication 19:48 < RLim> that's what I mean 19:48 < RLim> say for our voting codes etc 19:48 < RLim> it uses sql 19:49 < RLim> so that won't be affected? Sorry for my ignorance on LDAP 19:49 < Wilson> Inquiry: Were there any other motions tonight? 19:49 < RLim> Wilson: no 19:50 < Wilson> k. I motion we adjourn (informal discussion can still continue) 19:50 <@adpaolucci> So who on the fund do I talk to about leasing the server?\ 19:50 < RLim> wait 19:51 < RLim> any business to discuss about the GM and election? 19:51 < RLim> I can pay OVH using paypal 19:51 < RLim> let me know 19:51 <@JMcleod> Well GM = present PC results. 19:51 <@JMcleod> And set up EB right? 19:51 <@JMcleod> Anything else? 19:51 <@JohannWeiss> The PC election seemed to work out okay. The EB should be about the same 19:51 <@JohannWeiss> Right? 19:52 <@CCitizen> Yeah... technically we dont even need to do much about the PC election unless someone has a complaint 19:52 <@JMcleod> Shouldnt EB be a top 2 vote for Pres and VP and secretary is a different vote? 19:52 < RLim> yep. Just want to make sure we are not forgetting anything 19:52 < Wilson> I know Vaughn Male wants to seek a position. Haven't heard about anybody else 19:53 <@JohannWeiss> Right, that counting of the votes will be different 19:53 <@JohannWeiss> just a straight count with an ordred list 19:53 < RLim> we are not doing a write in right? 19:54 < RLim> So would be the same. Nominate and then vote 19:54 <@JMcleod> So EB is Yes/No (no abstain) 19:54 <@JMcleod> Since approval doesnt matter 19:54 <@JMcleod> I wonder though, should it be 1 vote for pres/vp and another vote for secretary? 19:54 <@JohannWeiss> Yes 19:55 <@JMcleod> Thats how I view it, cant see how to do it otherwise 19:55 <@JohannWeiss> the Pres/VP have to be the same cause of the const modifications 19:55 < Wilson> I am being kicked off the computer so I will say good night. 19:55 < RLim> ok night Wilson 19:56 <@JMcleod> Good night Wilson 19:56 <@CCitizen> 3 votes... Pres/VP, Leader/Deputy Leader and Secretary 19:56 <@JohannWeiss> Yes 19:56 <@CCitizen> That said people in PC need to run for leader :) 19:56 <@JohannWeiss> Indeed 19:57 <@JMcleod> Isnt leader given to most approval? 19:57 <@JohannWeiss> That's all possible using the same system, right RLim? 19:57 < RLim> Well it is more of a drop down list than 2 yes no then 19:58 < RLim> you either choose one or the other except for Secretary 19:58 < RLim> also I am not running 19:58 <@CCitizen> In the constitution the leader is elected from the PC when the president and secreatary are done 19:58 < RLim> if I am forced to someone have to take over the vote counts 19:59 < RLim> ah because they can't hold 2 positions 19:59 <@CCitizen> It was set up that way because people who are popular might not want to be leader 19:59 <@JohannWeiss> RLim 19:59 < RLim> hmm what if someone want to run for both. :P 19:59 <@CCitizen> Both of what 19:59 <@JohannWeiss> I definitly wont be running, can you show me how to deal with the vote? 19:59 <@CCitizen> Radio buttons 19:59 < RLim> okay it's easy 20:00 <@CCitizen> You can only select one option for leader, one option for secretary and one option for president 20:00 < RLim> ok 20:00 <@CCitizen> Whoever gets most votes for leader becomes leader.Runner up ends up as deputy leader 20:00 <@CCitizen> same with president/vp 20:00 < RLim> JohannWeiss: I can walk you through including the datagbase 20:00 < Broken_Syntax> CCitizen, hehe, I was thinking the same thing. with 96% I was only 1 step away from being highest approval rating, and being my first year trying to be more than passively involved I don't think I have the background knowledge to lead, but then I tend to be highly self-critical. 20:00 < RLim> *database 20:01 <@CCitizen> besides approval% isnt a good judge of leadership. No offense... If you have 5 people who vote yes and 10 abstains you have an approval rating of 100% :D 20:01 <@JMcleod> Lead really means you are the contact with EC and talk to TV people that pester us if we get in the news somehow 20:01 < RLim> so PC should not be running for Pres/VP 20:01 <@JMcleod> its not that bad 20:01 < RLim> and sec 20:02 <@CCitizen> PC should avoid running for Pres/VP but they can resign if they win and become pres/vp 20:02 <@CCitizen> we have like what 8 people on PC now? 20:02 <@CCitizen> or 10? 20:02 <@JohannWeiss> 10 20:02 < RLim> ok 20:02 < RLim> but not run for leader and Pres at the same time 20:02 <@CCitizen> as long as we dont drop below 5 we dont need a by-election 20:03 < Broken_Syntax> Hmm, about that. I have press contacts who may *want* to do a piece on us. (or be politely requested to during a slow news week.) 20:03 <@CCitizen> Well I think it'd be dumb to do both since you'd effectively force a second election if you win both 20:03 < RLim> I guess there's no stopping them if they want to double bet their chances 20:03 <@CCitizen> that said... if someone tries to run for both I'd not vote for them for either 20:03 <@CCitizen> just out of principle 20:04 < RLim> we should adjourn 20:04 <@JohannWeiss> It wouldn't force a second election. 20:04 <@JohannWeiss> THey couldn't accept both positions 20:04 <@CCitizen> True.. 20:04 <@JohannWeiss> so they would have to turn one down 20:05 <@JohannWeiss> which would elliminate them from the other ballot 20:05 <@CCitizen> In all honesty we probably need to redo the constitution badly 20:05 <@JohannWeiss> Yeaup 20:05 <@JMcleod> Yeah we do 20:05 <@CCitizen> we had a special committee on it before but nothing ever came from it 20:05 <@JMcleod> I gave all my ideas to EB last month 20:05 <@CCitizen> well we had plenty of ideas 20:06 <@CCitizen> yeah I wasnt here last month but ideally I think the separation of PC/EB was a bad one... also electing PC one month then EB next month is kinda fail too even if I wrote it with good intentions it does show a flaw in our system 20:06 < Broken_Syntax> Should set up a working group on it and collaborate over Google docs or some such, then present for ratification one module at a time. 20:07 < Broken_Syntax> Make a goal of having one completed each meeting? 20:07 <@CCitizen> also need to incorporate some failsafes... for example if we didnt meet a quorum last month what happens? We'd be in breach of our own constitution because we'd be unable to hold the election 20:07 <@JohannWeiss> With the election starting within a week, I'd say we wait on constitituion work untill after 20:07 <@CCitizen> No you are better off to have everything written at once then pass it at once 20:08 <@JohannWeiss> Someone moved to adjourn, is there a second? 20:08 <@CCitizen> because if you propose an amendment at the feb GM, you ahve to wait until the march GM before you can put it up for vote then it only takes effect on the April GM 20:08 <@CCitizen> seconded 20:08 <@JohannWeiss> All in favour of adjourning?: 20:08 <@CCitizen> so every amendment takes 2 months to pass 20:08 <@CCitizen> aye 20:08 <@JohannWeiss> aye 20:08 <@JMcleod> aye 20:10 < RL1m> aye 20:10 <@CCitizen> Best way to do a constitutional rewrite would be whole cloth and propose it as one big block to be voted on 20:11 < Broken_Syntax> CCitizen, I was just thinking better that something get done than nothing. 20:11 <@JohannWeiss> Meeting adjourned



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