PB 2012-02-02 debate

Note: Log times are in North American central time.

19:32 Haha this debate has about as many attendees as a political board meeting *slide whistle* 19:32 < JayFrank> V - that needs to change. 19:32 < JayFrank> Rin - looks like commitment is still at a derp level. 19:32 <@Rintaran> Afraid I've been out of touch during my time in the hospital. Anything particularly revealing or unexpected come out of the candidates since I had to step back? 19:33 < JayFrank> I'd put 1000x moar effort into PPCA if people actually did stuff. 19:33 <@Rintaran> That sucks. Wish I was out for good, but I'll be in and out for the next year. 19:33 JayFrank, I wonder how many other people say the same thing. 19:34 I guess that's why we need good leaders. 19:34 JayFrank: I agree, which is why I have been actively recruiting in the Vancouver area. It helps to have people to talk to in real life. 19:35 < RLim> first question should be can you committ to attending a meeting once a week? 19:36 PPCA leadership has historically sucked balls 19:36 < JohannWeiss> Definitely. 19:36 < RLim> hi Rintaran 19:36 <@Rintaran> Actually, for leader, 2x/week plus local meetings...] 19:36 anti-piracy, anti-wikileaks, etc... 19:36 <@Rintaran> Hey Ric. 19:37 < JayFrank> Rin - i'd rather "Leader - respond to all posts/emails within 36 hrs." 19:37 < JayFrank> i get that from Shawn and Travis. 19:37 <@Rintaran> I'll attend as best I can, but my schedule is pretty nasty with the medical tests and new job. 19:37 <@Rintaran> Jay, I fully agree. Though I think it should be 24 hours. 19:38 <@Rintaran> One of the reasons I had to step back. :( 19:38 < JayFrank> Rin - i hear ya - 50hr weeks for me lately - i'm training new hires at my isp job. 19:38 < JohannWeiss> There was never any discussion on how this whole debate thing should take place. At this point any of you could just ask Shawn or I questions. 19:38 Whatever you are comfortable with. I am happy to not lose your voice in the party, because you've always had great reasonable input. 19:38 that was @Rintaran 19:38 < JohannWeiss> I don't exactly have a lot of points to debate with Shawn. 19:39 < JohannWeiss> Shoot 19:39 I'm excited. 19:40 <@Rintaran> Question for all candidates: How far do you plan to expand the platform, and how strict do you believe electoral candidates need to stick to party stances? 19:41 < JayFrank> *Q* - Why is it that PPCA always responds LATE to everything that matters - (ACTA/SOPA/ETC) - even when your members alert you well in advance? 19:41 < JohannWeiss> Platform: I'm open to how the general membership feel son this. Most issues I like to appeal to the democratic principle and allow members to make the final decision 19:41 < JohannWeiss> Party stances: In our current system it 19:41 < JohannWeiss> **sorry mistyped enter 19:43 I think that we should expand the platform as far as possible along the arc of being in favor of Innovation, Democracy, Social Technology, Transparency, Information-related policies, and personal rights. 19:43 < JohannWeiss> In our current system it's detrimental. There isn't enough points of view in parliament and Canadians arent being properly represeneted because of it. If we could institute electoral reform we could open up parliament to many smaller parties. 19:44, but I think that it may bode better to have a platform intentionally full of strategic holes. We could explain that we would rather put controversial issues up to vote with the constituents than weigh in on say, abortion, or the death penalty (if it came up in parliament). 19:44 < JohannWeiss> If we're intending to actually elect members to parliament we have to expand our platform. 19:45 < JayFrank> In all things OUTSIDE the digital agenda -- speak for yourself only. Simple as that. 19:45 < JohannWeiss> I agree with avoiding the controversial issues, but we should have general views on the major topics of governance. 19:45 < JayFrank> Personal General Views on whatever you feel educated enough to comment on. 19:45 Those are extreme examples of things that should not be in the platform. It would be a collaborative process so I can't say how large these strategic holes will end up in the end. 19:47 < JohannWeiss> JayFrank: I think that will deter people from voting for us. Few Canadians see the digital issues as the only issue of importance. Combine that with our stilted system which gives so much power to parties and you've got us in a bad place 19:47 As for the "party line" or "party whip"- I think we should explicitly be in opposition to it, and encourage healthy internal dissent. 19:47 < JohannWeiss> svulliez: agreed 19:48 < JayFrank> *Q* - The lack of participation in this debate shows that of 2000+ members - irc and a post on the forums is a social engineering FAIL in generating participation. How can YOU as LEADER increase participation? 19:49 < JohannWeiss> We need to start forming groups of members who are able to actively participate (like on writing our wiki or running a pirate media outlet ala pirate radio or pirate who) 19:49 < JayFrank> JW - we ARE in a bad place....we can't even get our shit right on the things we agree upon. Adding more - just a bigger mess. 19:49 < JohannWeiss> Right now may be a bad time, but IMO we have to do it before we are going to get a seat in parliament 19:50 Incentivize membership more effectively. Private forums, the ability to submit blog posts, and suggest edits to the site in a wiki-like way are small things that make being a real member feel awesome about joining. 19:50 < JohannWeiss> On that note, our digital presence right now is very bad. 19:51 < JohannWeiss> The wiki is very out of date and our homepage doesn't have accurate info on who is running the party or what our constitution says 19:52 We also need to get more point-people in major cities. These people will guarantee that there is at least one person at every local meeting, and make sure the meetings are always happening. 19:52 < JayFrank> *A* - If i was leader I would engage Alex Jones, Press For Truth, Geist, Charlie Angus and request skype interviews. I would create a youtube channel and skype interview ANY PPCA member who paid $10 for a card and post their interview to youtube. 19:52 < JayFrank> this ensure that their $10 contribution would LITERALLY ensure that their VOICE IS HEARD in the movement. 19:53 <@Rintaran> I like that. I think I'll vote for Jay. :P 19:54 < JayFrank> huzzah! 19:54 < JayFrank> got $10 to donate to the party? I'll call u right now. 19:54 < JayFrank> *smirk* 19:55 <@Rintaran> i automatically renew annually. :) 19:56 Sounds like a decent idea, so some sort of spokesperson or the leader could be interviewed / grilled by the membership for a donation? 19:57 <@Rintaran> One of the major hindrances of the party has been a consistent problem regarding both obtaining and spending funds. What would you do to generate additional revenue, and how would you ensure funds are not left lying around with no defined purpose? 19:57 < JohannWeiss> I've been looking into an idea to increase publicity and possibly gain members, but I haven't posted it to the forums yet. I was thinking about getting a booth at local farmers markets and distributing the Pirate Linux with information on anonymity, the internet, etc. 19:57 < JayFrank> or could lead a conversation with each member giving them a chance to being the human mic. 19:58 < JohannWeiss> I'll admit here, I don't know why our funds have been tied up in the past. 19:59 < JohannWeiss> Without knowing why I can't really suggest a way to alleviate the situation 19:59 < JayFrank> Rin - Fundraising is easy if we can generate viral memes and an active community. Passion = $s. 19:59 Incentivize donations further with things like giving the flag for a $100 donation or more, a pin for a $50 donation or more and so on. 20:00 It's worked well in the past, we should get more exclusive knick-knacks. 20:00 < JayFrank> we can haz stuff. 20:00 < JohannWeiss> We need to expand our local attempts at fund raising, possibly by gifting items with donations (just notcied Shawns similar comment, damn you). I was thinking about Pirate sticks or Pirate Boxes 20:01 < JayFrank> sticks and boxes aint enough. 20:01 While asking for money, I think we should always have an active project that we're pointing at 20:01 donate for the pirate bus tour! 20:01 donate for the site redesign! 20:01 < JayFrank> donate to join an online gamer party. 20:01 donate for (tangible, desirable outcome) ! 20:01 < JohannWeiss> JayFrank: Those are two that came to my head which weren't already suggested by Shawn 20:01 < JayFrank> free. 20:02 haha if this was a republican debate. I would be Mitt Romney, Johann would be Rick Perry, and Jay would be Ron Paul 20:02 < JayFrank> a pirate MMORPG Clan would go viral within PPI. 20:02 < JayFrank> RON PAUL! 20:03 < JayFrank> AND we could kick other clans ass and have fun while spreading links, info, etc. 20:03 :s 20:03 I think that's a decenift idea, but I would not want any part of that initiative. Someone else can do it if they want. 20:04 < JayFrank> newb. 20:04 I invented a new word to describe how decenift that idea was. 20:05 < JayFrank> i'll drink to that. Creation is sacred....but i haven't decided if it's worth copying yet. 20:05 < xSmurf> *Knowledge is sacred, if nobody benefits from creation it's basically worthless 20:05 < PirateFox> I doubt decenift is a cromulent word 20:06 < JayFrank> oh wait - you're on your cell phone...nm 20:06 It's also cool how this debate is a permanent part of the Canadian Pirate Party's digital history. 20:06 < JayFrank> <- History in the making -> 20:06 < PirateFox> that's making us look really bad then :< 20:07 < JayFrank> really? To who? 20:07 < JayFrank> i think it looks bad that nobody showed up....so we're making the best of what we got. 20:07 < JohannWeiss> Yup 20:07 < RLim> transcript will be posted to wiki 20:07 < JayFrank> fine by me. 20:07 I'm going to take the lack of outsider questions as a sign that no one wants to participate 20:08 < JayFrank> remix anything i say - for the record. 20:08 < JohannWeiss> I don't like attacking be when they aren't around to defend themselves, but it's not a good sign that they aren't here 20:08 i can talk ? 20:08 < JohannWeiss> attacking people** 20:08 < PirateFox> can you? 20:08 < JayFrank> indepth - participate. 20:08 indepth: if you have questions, sure. 20:09 < RLim> there's another debate next week. If they still can't show up then that's not a good sign for keeping quorum on a weekly political council meeting. twice a week for the leader 20:09 great!:P I was on the impression it was only for the big boys... haha 20:09 < JayFrank> indepth - you could be a bigboy for all they know. What you got to say? 20:10 nothing for now, but ill participate "in time". *sorry for the bad english* 20:11 Well, this is essentially the time and day of the week that the board is supposed to meet. 20:12 < JayFrank> i want to get shit done..i want all of us to make an impact. 20:13 < JayFrank> my dogs are a better judge of character than I am Shawn... 20:13 < JayFrank> i guarantee you won't kick them for fear of being eaten. 20:13 I agree with the concept that 'the party needs to make an impact', I don't think anyone contests that. 20:13 < JohannWeiss> I agree Jay (about the impact not the dogs) 20:14 I think there are a lot of really obvious things that the pirate party ~should~ do 20:15 < JayFrank> i'm going to start marketing...without permission. 20:15 and everyone says them all the time 20:15 What we need is to get bands of pirates collaborating as we have here in vancouver. 20:15 < JayFrank> i have the email account pirateparty@shaw.ca and i'm going to start spreading info and making contact with targets. 20:15 < JayFrank> I want to ask M Geist if he has a list of ACTA Negotiators and expose it. 20:16 < JayFrank> I want to get Dan Dicks from Press For Truth Toronto to talk to Shaw, Jake, Travis ect 20:16 I'd actually love to talk to Dan Dicks. 20:16 < JayFrank> I want one of us to make it on to the Alex Jones show to talk about ACTA, SOPA, C-11, C-10 etc. 20:16 < JayFrank> this shit NEEDS to be done. 20:16 < JayFrank> have you ever tried to contact him? 20:17 Nope. 20:17 < JayFrank> he's doing video skype interviews now. 20:18 I have no problem with appearing on conspiracy shows, as long as they are cool with me not agreeing with everything they say. 20:18 < xSmurf> It's probably not in your best interests either. 20:18 < JohannWeiss> I'll leave the conspiracy stuff to Shawn 20:18 < RLim> Welcome Wilson. And then there were three.... 20:18 < Wilson> evenin' Ric 20:19 < JohannWeiss> Wilson: so far it's just been me and Shawn, mostly talking to JayFrank 20:19 < Wilson> ah k. Well it is still a little early 20:20 < JohannWeiss> I believe it was set to start 50 minutes ago 20:20 < Wilson> 9.30 eastern is 10.30 atlantic, right? 20:20 < RLim> Wilson, I think you have the wrong time zone again. :P 20:21 8:30 EST i Wilson 20:21 < Wilson> damn time zones -_- Party policy to do away with them, anyone? 20:21 < JayFrank> we're nearing an hour in...and so far....it's Rin voted for me instead of any of the leaders. 20:21 I don't think the party should be afraid to get publicity like that, but there needs to be clear lines drawn, I don't think anyone wants to hear the pirate party talk about 9/11 truth or reptillians or aliens whatever other than to say that hypothetically transparency could expose whatever truth may lie there 20:21 Thats re: talking to alex jones 20:22 < JayFrank> alex is talking aboot ACTA finally. 20:22 < JayFrank> so is James Corbett, Dan Dicks etc 20:22 < JayFrank> now is the time to strike. 20:22 But it would be a grave error in public relations to speak on behalf of the party to talk about 'the unified conspiracy theory' Alex is so fond of. 20:22 < xSmurf> svulliez: Thank you! 20:23 But I do think that the conspiracy crowd is a more legitimate demographic than people may think, and that we strongly appeal to them in my experience. 20:23 < xSmurf> If you gotta associate with a conspiracy theorist at least make it Jesse Ventura, he's bad ass he was a wrestler 20:24 < JayFrank> u think he knows anything aboot Copyright or Patents? 20:24 < JayFrank> i'm sure he'd agree that they need reform...but so would Ron Paul. 20:24 < JayFrank> stick to Canadian Politicians... 20:24 Ok next question perhaps... 20:24 < PirateFox> svulliez: yes 20:24 < xSmurf> if memory serve I recall him bashing on the big groups, but I could be wrong... for the record I have no idea 20:24 < JayFrank> i've talked to Charlie Angus and he's responded to every email I ever sent him... 20:24 < PirateFox> also, communist/socialist views 20:25 < Wilson> nope, I'm right. eastern time is Ontario, Quebec with atlantic time being NB. Theres a difference between having legitimate concerns about government and being a conspiracy theorist, who practice the same refusal to be proven wrong you dislike about fundamentalists 20:25 < JayFrank> including when i remixed one of his songs into an Anit-ACTA song. 20:25 < JohannWeiss> Wilson: Who was your last comment directed at? 20:26 < Wilson> probably Shawn. sorry 20:26 < RLim> and probably my smart ass remark about timezone. :P 20:26 < Wilson> yah, that too lol 20:26 Wilson: I agree that a distinction has to be made between people who are dogmatic and people who are not dogmatic 20:27 < Wilson> and we draw that line how? 20:27 < JayFrank> u dont. 20:27 < JayFrank> a Free Man leads himself. 20:28 any dogmatic belief is to be questioned, if a conspiracy theorist can't react to evidence that is contrary to his views, that is a problem. 20:29 Sure. So. I wouldn't mind wrapping this thing up, because even though it's a fun little gong show, I'm not really being "engaged" and I don't feel we're making any "progress". 20:31 < JohannWeiss> Neither am I but it's up to us to try and change it 20:31 < JohannWeiss> Wilson: Will you be able to make it next week? 20:32 < RLim> should I even bother posting this up on wiki or wait see how the turn out is next week? 20:32 < Wilson> yup. 9.30 est...right -_- 20:32 <@Rintaran> 8:30pm Eastern. 20:32 Wilson: 8:30 EST 20:32 < Wilson> k 20:35 <@Rintaran> I'll moderate next week, unless I end up back in the hospital for tests. So far it's clear though. 20:35 * JayFrank punches "leadership" in the shoulder. 20:35 < JayFrank> thx for showing up. 20:35 < RLim> k thanks @Rintaran 20:36 < JohannWeiss> Thanks Rintaran 20:36 k, tnx everybody, ill be there next week. very interesting. 20:37 < JohannWeiss> Alight, bye all, I'm out