GM 2010-12-19 transcript

(Time is MST)

18:09:10 scshunt: Okay, I think we're ready to start. I call the meeting to order 18:09:15 scshunt: The agenda is at https://www.pirateparty.ca/forum /index.php?topic=562.msg3344#msg3344 18:09:56 scshunt: The first item of business is for MikkelPaulson to deliver a leader's report 18:10:13 scshunt: Also, if you have not logged in, please do so now, or /msg me if you're having trouble 18:10:15 securr: I believe I also moved to create a research committee 18:10:17 MikkelPaulson: scshunt: shouldn't we approve an agenda first, or proceed on an ad-hoc basis? 18:10:43 scshunt: MikkelPaulson: would you like to approve the agenda? If so you could motion to approve it, but then we're locked in. 18:10:46 MikkelPaulson: let's just do ad-hoc so that securr has a chance to make his motion 18:10:56 MikkelPaulson: which I neglected to add to the agenda 18:11:09 scshunt: I didn't realize securr actually wanted to move a motion 18:11:12 scshunt: sorry 18:11:24 securr: no problem, it was somewhat buried in the forums 18:11:46 securr: though KenHoover seconded 18:11:58 scshunt: seconds are given at the meeting, not in advance 18:11:58 MikkelPaulson: seconding actually happens at the meeting 18:12:02 MikkelPaulson: :) 18:12:09 scshunt: Are we all happy? 18:12:15 securr: we are indeed :) 18:12:48 MikkelPaulson: okay, I move the adoption of a Leader's report regarding the by-election results in Winnipeg North 18:13:04 scshunt: MikkelPaulson: just deliver the report 18:13:08 MikkelPaulson: okay 18:13:10 scshunt: there's no need for a motion if you're delivering a report 18:13:36 MikkelPaulson: well, the results gave us a total of 94 votes, only 20 below the Green candidate 18:13:49 MikkelPaulson: not too bad for a first election in a riding with a voter turnout < 30% 18:14:15 MikkelPaulson: unfortunately Jeff isn't able to be with us tonight, but I'm quite pleased with his campaign and the turnout 18:14:29 MikkelPaulson: of course, there's a lot for us to learn going forward 18:14:38 MikkelPaulson: and we'll be putting it into practice in future elections 18:14:56 MikkelPaulson: although personally I'm hoping for another by-election before we have to face our first General Election, but it doesn't sound like we're going to have that luxury 18:15:14 MikkelPaulson: that concludes my report on the matter 18:15:21 MikkelPaulson: do we get a discussion period? 18:15:32 scshunt: do people want to talk about it? 18:15:42 securr: sure 18:16:06 scshunt: *crickets* 18:16:12 MikkelPaulson: yes 18:16:29 MikkelPaulson: is that a "go ahead"? 18:16:37 scshunt: sounds like it 18:16:41 securr: i thought his approach to building a platform based upon the feedback from his constituents was brilliant. is that going to be considered a best practice going forward? 18:17:10 MikkelPaulson: I still support allowing candidates to build their own platforms rather than enforcing a specific standard of behaviour 18:17:13 securr: it certainly feeds into our open government concept, and there's lots of things experimentally we can do with that idea 18:17:21 MikkelPaulson: but that's definitely an offshoot of the attitude 18:17:47 MikkelPaulson: and I'll be working to engage a dialogue with my constituents during my campaign in Edmonton Centre, as I'm sure will our other candidates 18:18:14 MikkelPaulson: however, going too far over to that side can also imply that we don't stand for anything, which we don't want either 18:18:27 securr: yeah. conceptually, and in the long term, it might be worth experimenting with purely constituent driven platforms. it would be a wildly different approach to modern politics 18:18:33 securr: especially if it is systematized 18:18:47 MikkelPaulson: I think Jeff continued listening too long, when he should've been talking about what he'd heard in the latter days of the campaign 18:19:11 securr: *nods* that does seem to be an inherent risk to that approach 18:19:18 MikkelPaulson: part of being receptive is being willing to stand for the principles and concerns you're receiving from the people you're talking to 18:20:12 securr: and really, from the perspective of the average canadian, one of the core problems with contemporary government is the lack of ... enforceable (?) input 18:20:32 MikkelPaulson: exactly 18:20:41 scshunt: (notice) For those of you who've just joined the meeting, please login at https://meetings.pirateparty.ca/login.php 18:20:46 MikkelPaulson: most candidates will listen to what you have to say, but that doesn't mean that they have the interest to hear or the ability to act 18:20:55 MikkelPaulson: and we have to demonstrate that as well if we're to be taken seriously 18:21:17 securr: and the result of course is a disenchanted and apolitical populace 18:21:25 MikkelPaulson: exactly 18:21:43 MikkelPaulson: the greater the practical disconnect with government, the greater the apathy will be 18:22:31 securr: agreed 18:22:37 MikkelPaulson: as I think you and I are the only ones interested in discussing this, shall we continue? 18:22:44 scshunt: (notice) For those of you who've just joined the meeting, please login at https://meetings.pirateparty.ca/login.php. 18:23:07 securr: we can move on, though i wouldn't mind discussing this outside of the meeting 18:23:15 scshunt: Ok. 18:23:22 scshunt: The next order of business is to be moved by TravisMcCrea 18:24:10 scshunt: TravisMcCrea ? 18:24:16 MikkelPaulson: or maybe it isn't 18:24:25 TravisMcCrea: Typing.. 18:24:28 scshunt: ok 18:24:37 MikkelPaulson: sorry, IRC is sub-optimal 18:24:39 TravisMcCrea: I move that we create a committee to look into purchasing and funding a bus tour 18:25:38 TravisMcCrea: (hopefully that is right, I was trying to think of the best way to word it, and then I felt under pressure so I just typed what I had) 18:25:40 MikkelPaulson: you have the right to open discussion 18:25:55 MikkelPaulson: unless you prefer to just go right into it 18:25:55 scshunt: Is there a second? 18:25:58 MikkelPaulson: seconded 18:26:07 scshunt: Also, do you want to specify when this committee should report? 18:26:36 TravisMcCrea: Umm I don't think I do, when we are satisfied would be the best answer I could give 18:26:37 MikkelPaulson: given our committees' reliability in terms of scheduling, I don't recommend it 18:27:02 scshunt: ok 18:27:05 TravisMcCrea: So can I start discussion on why I proposed it? 18:27:16 MikkelPaulson: yeah 18:27:20 scshunt: In that case, TravisMcCrea has moved that the party create a committee to look into purchasing and funding a bus tour. 18:27:20 TravisMcCrea: The discussion on the bus comes two fold: One is if we need a bus at all. A bus is a major move forward for the party, but I know that some question the parties ability to pay for it, and the ability to get people to volunteer for a bus tour. There has already been a small ad-hoc committee which has done a preliminary look into the possibility of having a bus, and we have already found that if done right not only could the party afford it, 18:27:21 TravisMcCrea: but it could actually bring money TO the party (aside from the obvious media attention it would also gain us). I feel after looking at all the facts it would be in our best financial and political interest to create a committee which will fine tune the ideas already brought forward, and ensure that any money raised for a bus would be done properly and most effectively. 18:27:23 scshunt: Please go ahead 18:27:32 TravisMcCrea: Obviously the having of a bus is a major milestone in the progress of any organization (political or non), and while there is a large group of us who are willing to spend the time to fundraise and organize a bus tour -- there is a lof of planning that would have to go into it to ensure that we would be able to meet these pre-qualifications, but we already have a group of people dedicated to making this work, and now that more people know abo 18:27:33 TravisMcCrea: ut it I am sure that interest will only increase. 18:28:10 MikkelPaulson: done? 18:28:25 TravisMcCrea: My plan for this committee is to create a group, which will act within the party to do all the research on a bus tour (and options for buying a bus), then moving forward, come up with ways that we can fundraise independently for the project so that it minimizes any funds that come from standard memberrship feees. 18:28:28 TravisMcCrea: 18:28:57 MikkelPaulson: well 18:29:02 MikkelPaulson: I'll repeat what I've said in the past 18:29:17 MikkelPaulson: I'm not convinced that it's feasible or a good use of our extremely limited labour 18:29:22 MikkelPaulson: but I'd like to hear more about it 18:29:29 MikkelPaulson: so I support the creation of the committee 18:29:46 Jeremy: to quote the arrogant worms, "Canada's really big". where would we be bus touring? 18:30:00 MikkelPaulson: coast to coast I believe was the plan 18:30:05 MikkelPaulson: do you still have your map, Travis? 18:30:09 TravisMcCrea: I think that when there is a project that people are truely excited about, the work becomes easier and we get a better turn out of "labour" that we would not normally get. 18:30:15 TravisMcCrea: MikkelPaulson, umm I can look up the log one sec 18:30:20 securr: have you thought about how high you 18:30:25 securr: re aiming? 18:31:06 MikkelPaulson: http://goo.gl/yX5FZ 18:31:07 TravisMcCrea: I also want to point out this is just the committee that is planning a bus tour, so of course you are voting that you think a bus tour is interesting, but it does not mean that by approving this, we will have a bus 18:31:08 securr: sorry, hit enter to early. what i mean is, are you aiming for something cheap or for something more expensive but more useful long term 18:31:32 TravisMcCrea: http://paste2.org/p/1106778 18:31:47 TravisMcCrea: For people who want to see it on a map 18:31:47 TravisMcCrea: http://goo.gl/yX5FZ 18:32:12 Brendan: Nuitari: ping me when you're about 18:32:28 TravisMcCrea: securr, well again that would be something the committee would discuss... however, how we have been talking -- we want to get a cheap-ish school bus, and convert it to waste veggy oil 18:32:30 MikkelPaulson: one thing I will say 18:32:43 MikkelPaulson: although I don't want to get too involved in the committee's job right now 18:32:59 MikkelPaulson: is that while buying an older bus is fine, we're better off with no bus than a 50-year-old POS 18:33:06 MikkelPaulson: since it would reflect poorly on the party I think 18:33:31 securr: TravisMcCrea: That's what I assumed, and would caution against it. A cheap purchase would be a ... trying ... experience and eventually have to be replaced, leading to more costs in the future. 18:33:39 securr: Though I do support the idea of a committee. 18:34:12 scshunt: http://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs& q=liberal+bus+break+down&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 18:34:50 MikkelPaulson: not the best PR 18:34:56 TravisMcCrea: securr, yeah well thats what the committee will decide, because it also means more funds that we would have to raise... and Mikkel is very opposed to taking funds away from the party (though I do not feel that it would -- people will give more, just because they are funding the bus trip) 18:35:27 securr: It's certainly worth exploring 18:35:53 MikkelPaulson: obviously we'll need to spend some money, and I'm willing to invest a bit in it 18:35:58 TravisMcCrea: We also have to remember that School busses are very hard to sell, which means they are cheaper even when newer 18:36:10 MikkelPaulson: I don't believe we should pour $10k into it though 18:36:23 securr: They also look like school buses. Image needs to be a factor in the decision. 18:36:43 MikkelPaulson: one major part of the proposal involves purchasing PPCA decals for the bus 18:36:54 MikkelPaulson: so it wouldn't stay yellow with the stop sign 18:37:16 TravisMcCrea: :) Paint a school bus black, with PIRATE PARTY written in white letters on the side -- people will look. Especially if we do some vinal work 18:37:26 securr: as long as that's one of the costs that's being sussed out 18:37:53 MikkelPaulson: I'd prefer white with the black/red logo, but regardless, that's for the committee to come up witht 18:38:17 scshunt: Is there any more discussion? 18:38:18 securr: though we also must consider elements that make a political bus trip viable. things like comfort, access, washrooms, wi-fi, etc etc 18:38:24 TravisMcCrea: So can I move to to move to question? 18:38:30 securr: not saying that those are necessary, but must at least be considered 18:38:32 securr: yes sorry go ahead 18:38:33 MikkelPaulson: one more question 18:38:41 MikkelPaulson: on the motion 18:38:45 scshunt: TravisMcCrea: if you want, you could, but I think it's about to wind down 18:38:47 scshunt: MikkelPaulson: yes? 18:38:55 MikkelPaulson: can we make this a voice vote rather than putting it to phone/web voting 18:39:07 MikkelPaulson: I don't see that this concerns anyone who isn't otherwise active in the party 18:39:10 TravisMcCrea: go ahead (and yeah we have looked into internet, we actually have a guy who would be donating a satelite internet system for us to use while on the road) 18:39:16 scshunt: MikkelPaulson: yes 18:39:18 TravisMcCrea: (well lend) 18:39:25 securr: cool 18:39:25 scshunt: Ok. 18:39:35 TravisMcCrea: MikkelPaulson, sounds good to me 18:39:37 MikkelPaulson: we need a better outline of what needs what sort of approval 18:39:50 MikkelPaulson: I don't think forming committees should be more than a formality anyway 18:39:51 Jeremy: the actual vote for whether to go through with a bus trip should be phone/web, though 18:39:58 MikkelPaulson: of course 18:40:00 scshunt: (notice) The question is on the motion "Resolved, that the party create a committee to look into purchasing and funding a bus tour." 18:40:05 securr: agreed 18:40:11 MikkelPaulson: yea 18:40:14 scshunt: (notice) All in favour, please say "aye". All against, plese say "nay". 18:40:20 scshunt: (notice) Starting now 18:40:22 MikkelPaulson: aye 18:40:23 trailblazer: aye 18:40:24 TravisMcCrea: Aye 18:40:26 Jeremy: aye 18:40:26 securr: aye 18:40:49 scshunt: trailblazer: Please sign in 18:41:05 MikkelPaulson: he is, as trailblazer11 18:41:08 scshunt: oh 18:41:09 TravisMcCrea: scshunt, trailblazer11 is 18:41:16 trailblazer: browser crash 18:41:31 scshunt: cool 18:41:36 scshunt: Okay, so the motion passes 18:41:44 TravisMcCrea: Yay 18:42:23 scshunt: Next up is for Ayes to move a motion regarding technology and politics 18:42:27 MikkelPaulson: he's not here 18:42:31 securr: i think that might be a record for these meetings 18:42:33 scshunt: He appears to not be here; would anyone like to move it in his place? 18:42:47 scshunt: securr: Nope, we had more back when we had them on a real day of the week 18:42:59 MikkelPaulson: I would, but to be honest I don't understand his motion well enough to introduce it for him 18:43:07 securr: id like to discuss it with him in respect to my research proposal, but i think its worth considering 18:43:13 securr: but id like to wait until he's here 18:43:23 doconnor: I would move it 18:43:29 scshunt: doconnor: Please sign in? 18:43:35 doconnor: Remined me how... 18:43:43 MikkelPaulson: https://meetings.pirateparty.ca/login.php 18:43:48 scshunt: https://meetings.pirateparty.ca/login.php 18:43:52 MikkelPaulson: :) 18:43:55 scshunt: also, is there a second for the motion? 18:44:03 securr: ill secon 18:44:05 securr: second 18:44:05 Jeremy: what exactly is the motion? 18:44:06 scshunt: ok 18:44:10 MikkelPaulson: honestly, I think we should wait until he's here 18:44:34 MikkelPaulson: at least defer it until the end of the meeting in case he shows up late 18:44:34 scshunt: If the motion is defeated today, that doesn't preclude it from coming up again 18:44:38 securr: i agree as well, but if doconnor feels he understands it just as well... 18:44:41 scshunt: trailblazer: try reregistering with Stenobot 18:44:43 Jeremy: nobody has stated the motion 18:44:49 scshunt: Jeremy: it's in the agenda 18:44:56 scshunt: doconnor: So you'd like to move it now, or would you like to hold off? 18:45:40 doconnor: Well the idea is to create a group to explore how to use the Internet to improve government and democracy. 18:45:47 doconnor: At least that is my vision. 18:45:50 scshunt: doconnor: Are you going to move the motion now? 18:45:57 scshunt: or should we proceed to other business 18:46:14 doconnor: I guess we should wait. 18:46:17 scshunt: ok 18:46:27 Jeremy: perhaps having a link to the agenda in the channel name would be appropriate? it isn't exactly straightforward as to where to find it 18:46:33 MikkelPaulson: https://www.pirateparty.ca/forum /index.php?topic=562.0 18:46:41 Jeremy: though i've got it 18:46:57 scshunt: Next on the agenda is a report from the Constitutional Refinement Committee, but rintaran is running late. 18:47:05 scshunt: so we'll have to defer it and the two motions depending on it 18:47:22 MikkelPaulson: which leaves securr I believe 18:47:27 scshunt: and trailblazer 18:47:35 scshunt: he wanted to report about some flyers I believe 18:47:44 trailblazer: yeah 18:47:48 MikkelPaulson: have to wait until he re-authenticates though 18:47:56 scshunt: securr: why don't you go ahead? 18:48:03 securr: sure. thanks. 18:48:23 mib_ksw6hz: hi niggas 18:48:27 securr: I'm proposing the establishment of a research committee. 18:48:47 scshunt: securr: Can you please state a motion 18:49:04 scshunt: or something from which we can formulate one 18:49:15 scshunt: or do you actually just want a research committee? 18:49:27 securr: ill state a motion 18:50:08 securr: I motion that the pirate party establish a research committee both to create content for public consumption as well as act as on-call researchers to gather data and information on future pirate party policy decisions. 18:50:16 MikkelPaulson: seconded 18:50:37 scshunt: Ok 18:50:46 scshunt: The motion is as stated by securr 18:50:55 scshunt: securr: Would you like to give opening remarks? 18:51:00 securr: sure 18:51:55 securr: One of the key strategies for any political party is to engage with the public. Our policy framework puts us in a unique position of being attractive to a particular demographic of media savvy Canadians. 18:52:37 securr: But in order to continue to generate interest in this demographic, and the public at large, we need the pirate party, specifically the website, to be a go to source of news and information. 18:53:34 securr: A research committee's job would be to provide entertaining and informative content for the public - content that would continue to drive people to the website (and other media sources by the party) and have them engage with the members. 18:54:21 securr: A secondary function of the party would be to research, at the request of the federal council or other members, policy specific topics and generate reports. This would ensure that the decisions we make 18:54:55 securr: are informed historically and have an well researched and academic bent that we can then look to in order to facilitate debate or refine our platform. 18:55:00 securr: That's all. 18:55:34 MikkelPaulson: right now we have our researchers operating as a loose subcommittee of PR 18:55:45 MikkelPaulson: but not terribly effectively 18:55:51 MikkelPaulson: and I support creating a committee for this 18:56:02 MikkelPaulson: the most important part of PR is acting, not reacting 18:56:12 MikkelPaulson: which means that we need to be the ones making news 18:56:33 MikkelPaulson: and when something newsworthy happens, we need to have a response ready before press time or our press releases matter for jack 18:56:45 securr: That's certainly a start, but as you said, I think a more defined committee would be better, especially considering there will be both external and internal uses for the committee. And I do think content generation is different overall than PR. 18:57:10 MikkelPaulson: no, it's PR, it's just not media relations 18:57:29 MikkelPaulson: and relating directly to people is fully as important 18:57:35 securr: Exactly, this committee would act as a driving force, highlighting research and news or doing long term studies and articles about topics we find important. 18:57:55 MikkelPaulson: one thing I'd love to see is the party submitting some FOI requests 18:58:12 MikkelPaulson: if we can dig up some dirt related to our core platform, it would be a huge boost for our presence and credibility 18:58:24 MikkelPaulson: but we have to know the right questions to ask 18:58:26 securr: Agreed, conducting primary research would be a core element of the committee. 18:59:26 scshunt: Is there any more dicsussion? 18:59:35 trailblazer11: having a repository of news related to our platform would also be nice. It would back up our platform and highlight importance of what we are fighting for 18:59:45 MikkelPaulson: yeah 18:59:54 trailblazer11: I would certainly be interested in such committee 19:00:03 securr: I'd also like to add that it would eventually necessitate a re-design of the website, to bring the content to the forefront. 19:00:14 securr: Well, I guess not necessitate, but I believe that would be important. 19:00:16 MikkelPaulson: oh our site needs a redesign period 19:00:28 MikkelPaulson: it looks nice, but when you look closer, the cracks start to show 19:00:33 securr: Hah. :) 19:00:34 MikkelPaulson: and the front page needs a major overhaul 19:00:34 securr: True. 19:00:43 MikkelPaulson: as you say, we need to be content-driven 19:00:48 trailblazer11: yeah once we start promoting ourselves more we want to capture attention of people visiting our website 19:01:07 Araashan: I think it would definitely help our image if it would include a more active blog, this way people can see what we're about without having to browse the forums 19:01:08 scshunt: We should add a face of Mikkel at the top. All the cool parties are doing it :P 19:01:11 securr: And the more the content develops into a community, the powerful our support becomes. 19:01:17 securr: *more powerful 19:01:55 securr: lol 19:02:09 scshunt: Anyways, any more discussion? 19:02:19 securr: im fine 19:02:29 trailblazer11: yeah if blog is not on front page there should be a scrolling feed of our blog like latest tweets. Maybe we can discuss the details more once the committe is created 19:02:39 MikkelPaulson: http://twitter.com/mikkelpaulson/status/28475066660 19:02:41 securr: I think that's a good idea. 19:02:52 MikkelPaulson: I can't go back on that 19:03:05 scshunt: Ok 19:03:12 securr: Haha. It is in writing. Though I'm glad we won't having you leering at us. 19:03:21 MikkelPaulson: not from your desktop, anyway :) 19:03:26 securr: lol 19:03:29 scshunt: (notice) The question is on the motion "Resolved, that the pirate party establish a research committee both to create content for public consumption as well as act as on-call researchers to gather data and information on future pirate party policy decisions." 19:03:41 trailblazer11: lol. No offense to Mikkel but I think we should not be personality driven 19:03:49 scshunt: (notice) All in favour say "aye", all against say "nay". If you can't vote, please send me a message quickly! 19:03:51 trailblazer11: :P 19:03:52 MikkelPaulson: aye 19:04:15 doconnor: aye 19:04:16 Lonnie: aye 19:04:33 securr: aye 19:05:18 scshunt: The motion passes. 19:05:30 scshunt: Next up, trailblazer11, would you like to reporT? 19:05:31 trailblazer11: aye 19:05:54 trailblazer11: yeah I would like to present draft of a flyer (or 3 versions actually) 19:06:25 trailblazer11: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15033314 /Flyer_2side_thename.pdf 19:07:12 trailblazer11: I have openoffice version but created a pdf version since different version or OS seems to produce different output 19:07:30 securr: are there more? 19:07:40 trailblazer11: another version has cutoff comment form in place of our name 19:07:45 trailblazer11: or origin of our name 19:07:46 trailblazer11: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15033314/Flyer_2side_form.pdf 19:08:15 trailblazer11: and one sided version for lower printing cost 19:08:17 trailblazer11: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15033314/Flyer_2side_form.pdf 19:08:30 trailblazer11: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15033314/Flyer_2side_form.pdf 19:08:38 trailblazer11: sorry 19:08:41 trailblazer11: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/15033314/Flyer_1side.pdf 19:08:56 Jeremy: i'm concerned that the flyer (the first one, at least) is too difficult for an average person to decipher 19:09:02 Jeremy: or to put in the effort to understand 19:09:34 MikkelPaulson: also our logo is stretched out of shape :P 19:09:57 securr: haha and the first point "lead" should be "leads" 19:10:03 trailblazer11: k I have to re-edit that 19:10:13 Araashan: I agree, and it might be too much text for the average person, a good flyer should have a few shock slogans and images 19:10:33 Jeremy: like "All PPCA representatives are mandated to consult with, and obtain consensus from their local constituents on all matters that are outside the party's main platform." could be made much simpler to understand 19:10:56 scshunt: We don't want to sound like normal political drivel 19:11:02 securr: what about something with more visual flair. i keep imagining a kind of airplane safety manual idea 19:11:12 trailblazer11: ok 19:11:36 trailblazer11: but how do you capture all our platform visually? 19:11:48 Jeremy: Like, "We want to hear from you. All of our representatives are open to contact about any political matters, not only those on our main platform." 19:12:00 securr: http://juliasmexicocity.typepad.com/safetygraphics/2010/06 /more-airline-safety.html 19:12:03 securr: thats a good question 19:12:03 trailblazer11: k 19:12:32 securr: im just throwing out ideas. it should be more eye catching, something that could turn into a meme 19:12:54 Jeremy: some statements are a bit vague, too - "Government, Corporations and people should bhe held accountable." It would be nice to have concrete examples. 19:12:56 AdamS: I agree with Jeremy. Forming a consensus with all might be a little unrealistic. 19:12:57 Jeremy: memes are useful 19:13:01 Araashan: I like the airplane manual instruction, it could include a net neutrality message by having a big corporate guy censoring someone's laptop or something 19:13:15 securr: let's say open government: old idea: politician on a platform, raised above constituents. new idea: policitian in the middle of constituents 19:13:17 Araashan: for example 19:13:18 securr: stuff like that 19:13:35 MikkelPaulson: oh dear, let's try to keep the visuals practical rather than political cartoons… 19:13:41 Jeremy: What they want: What We Want: 19:13:53 Jeremy: but yeah, that's a different kind of flyer 19:14:09 MikkelPaulson: I don't think we should be illustrating in the negative 19:14:23 MikkelPaulson: anyway, people already have an impression of government as elitist and inaccessible 19:14:26 MikkelPaulson: that's part of the problem 19:14:27 securr: MikkelPaulson: So not an old idea, new idea format? 19:14:49 MikkelPaulson: may be appropriate, but we should always stress the positive 19:14:56 MikkelPaulson: including visually 19:15:27 securr: agreed 19:15:33 trailblazer11: Jeremy: Limited space so hard to put specific examples. 19:15:58 securr: what if it was a "manual for new government" idea? taking the airline safety manual idea 19:15:59 MikkelPaulson: you can use 8.5x14 if it fits better 19:16:05 securr: short quips about our core platforms 19:16:09 scshunt: I think we really want to aim for easy-to-understand stuff 19:16:15 securr: then direct the reader to the website 19:16:25 scshunt: the wall-of-text idealism is part of what makes existing parties so annoying 19:16:28 scshunt: we want to be different 19:17:30 securr: perhaps an infographic? 19:17:37 Jeremy: trailblazer: perhaps, but some things absolutely must be less vague, or simply not mentioned. like "making consultative process with your MP open and transparent" 19:17:43 Araashan: question. would color flyers be possible or out of the question with our budget? 19:17:46 Jeremy: it isn't explicit what isn't open or transparent now 19:17:54 MikkelPaulson: on the subject of promotions, Jeff suggested printing stickers that are QRcodes only, no text or anything 19:17:55 securr: http://www.coolinfographics.com/ 19:18:06 MikkelPaulson: a sort of guerrilla marketing 19:18:20 MikkelPaulson: an idea that appeals to me personally 19:18:39 Jeremy: that is a good idea 19:18:44 securr: i like that 19:19:01 MikkelPaulson: I'd like to do them in PPCA red, just to make them stand out a bit 19:19:10 MikkelPaulson: shouldn't matter in terms of readability 19:19:34 trailblazer11: printing cost for mass producing flyer might be a bit high though 19:19:44 MikkelPaulson: yes 19:19:49 MikkelPaulson: necessary evil though 19:20:00 MikkelPaulson: flyers are one of our biggest promotional tools at this point 19:20:02 MikkelPaulson: or will be 19:20:15 trailblazer11: but might be worth doing and we can have it for people to download or e-mail 19:20:19 MikkelPaulson: although we're about to place an order of a number of flags for the rallies we'll be holding in January 19:20:41 Jeremy: a good aspect of flyers is that they can be printed anywhere in Canada, once a member downloads them 19:20:42 trailblazer11: flags with our logo? 19:20:44 MikkelPaulson: just received a proof from the printer 19:20:44 MikkelPaulson: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/68829/Mikkel-Paulson.gif 19:21:05 securr: cool 19:21:10 securr: no "of canada"? 19:21:21 scshunt: that would be yucky 19:21:45 MikkelPaulson: http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09dBa832i4bSW /610x.jpg 19:21:53 MikkelPaulson: seemed a bit redundant 19:22:10 scshunt: anyways, we're straying from the topic 19:22:16 MikkelPaulson: sorry 19:22:19 scshunt: so I think it's a good time to move on 19:22:27 scshunt: any objections to that? 19:22:29 trailblazer11: I just saw those reindeer antler in cars and remind me of world cup flags. Would be nice to put a pirate flag in cars. Maybe sold it as merchandise 19:22:54 trailblazer11: no objection 19:23:20 scshunt: Ok 19:23:29 MikkelPaulson: no motion to be make here I think 19:23:35 scshunt: In that case, I will give the report of the Constitutional Refinement Committee 19:24:02 scshunt: The committee was tasked with reviewing the election bylaws after the election in September and in light of Canada Elections Act requirements 19:24:52 scshunt: The resulting bylaws are simplified and better reflect what we want in fewer words: http://piratepad.ca/ep/pad/export/ro.YOMtVl9rLiR /rev.3646?format=txt 19:25:27 MikkelPaulson: use this instead 19:25:27 MikkelPaulson: http://piratepad.ca/ep/pad/view/ro.YOMtVl9rLiR /rev.3646 19:25:38 MikkelPaulson: more convenient 19:25:39 scshunt: that one has colors and is difficult to read 19:25:44 MikkelPaulson: that's true 19:25:44 scshunt: but will work too 19:25:53 MikkelPaulson: doesn't require downloading though 19:26:11 securr: file:///C:/Users/Sean/AppData/Local/Temp/VpNsJGPjkR- rev.3646.html 19:26:13 scshunt: Does anyone have any questions regarding the changes? I won't belabor the point if not 19:26:17 securr: ha 19:26:19 securr: sorry 19:26:21 securr: nevermind 19:26:23 MikkelPaulson: in that case, I move a brief recess to allow attendees to review the document 19:26:26 MikkelPaulson: 5 minutes? 19:26:31 securr: sure 19:26:33 scshunt: Ok. Any objections? 19:27:35 scshunt: Ok 19:27:39 scshunt: 5 minute recess it is 19:32:59 scshunt: Ok, 5 minutes is up. 19:33:14 scshunt: So, does anyone have any questions about it? 19:33:47 AdamS: section 3.1 under elections seems to be either missing a word or not entirely clear to me 19:33:48 securr: It seems straightforward to me. 19:34:11 MikkelPaulson: good catch 19:34:29 securr: Oh I read that as "after" 19:34:49 scshunt: Ok, I'll state the motion then we can amend it 19:34:53 rintaran: I think everyone did. 19:35:06 scshunt: The committee recommends the adoption of those bylaws 19:36:05 scshunt: so the motion is "Resolved, that the bylaws be amended by removing the "Federal Council", "Election Procedure", and "Announcements" sections and enacting the "Federal Council" and "Elections" section described at http://piratepad.ca/ep/pad/export/ro.YOMtVl9rLiR /rev.3646?format=txt" 19:36:44 MikkelPaulson: seconded 19:36:55 scshunt: It needs no second since it's coming from a committee 19:37:07 MikkelPaulson: okay 19:37:10 scshunt: I suggest we proceed by fixing the document and amending the URL 19:37:25 securr: agreed 19:38:24 scshunt: oh, actually, that should read "before", not after 19:39:28 scshunt: updated version at http://piratepad.ca/ep/pad /view/VpNsJGPjkR/s0Cn9BzK8j or http://piratepad.ca/ep/pad/export/VpNsJGPjkR /rev.3662?format=txt 19:39:43 securr: Ah, that makes more sense. 19:39:50 AdamS: excellent 19:40:10 MikkelPaulson: better 19:40:29 MikkelPaulson: well, not quite 19:40:30 MikkelPaulson: http://piratepad.ca/ep/pad/view/VpNsJGPjkR/latest 19:40:42 scshunt: what's the difference? 19:41:00 MikkelPaulson: you had "before than" 19:41:43 scshunt: oh 19:41:46 scshunt: can you please get a permalink? 19:41:58 scshunt: and then someone can move an amendment 19:42:18 MikkelPaulson: http://piratepad.ca/ep/pad/view/ro.YOMtVl9rLiR /rev.3666 19:43:16 scshunt: (hint: someone should move to amend the motion) 19:43:29 MikkelPaulson: I move that the report of the committee be amended to the following: http://piratepad.ca/ep/pad/view/ro.YOMtVl9rLiR/rev.3666 19:43:38 rintaran: second? 19:43:53 scshunt: MikkelPaulson has moved to replace http://piratepad.ca /ep/pad/export/ro.YOMtVl9rLiR/rev.3646?format=txt with http://piratepad.ca /ep/pad/view/ro.YOMtVl9rLiR/rev.3666 19:43:54 rintaran: I mean, I second. Sorry. 19:43:56 scshunt: Are there any objections? 19:44:45 scshunt: Ok, the motion is amended as stated 19:44:52 scshunt: Is there any further discussion on the motion 19:45:06 scshunt: I will point out it needs to go out for a full vote to the party, as it is a bylaw amendment 19:46:17 scshunt: Ok, then it will go to a full vote. It should be available on the phone and web within 24 hours 19:46:25 scshunt: Next up is a motion from Mikkel 19:46:56 MikkelPaulson: one moment 19:47:25 MikkelPaulson: I move that the vacant Director-at-Large positions in the Federal Council be designated for re-election in 2012, should the proposed bylaw amendment pass as amended 19:48:14 scshunt: Are there any objections? 19:48:36 MikkelPaulson: may I introduce? 19:48:45 AdamS: would they still be on the appropriate half term? 19:49:01 MikkelPaulson: what do you mean? 19:49:29 scshunt: MikkelPaulson: go ahead 19:49:35 MikkelPaulson: okay 19:49:38 AdamS: there seemed to be a 2 years stagger in the Directsors position, would that sitll be lined up propoerly so that we aren't electing 4 of them at once? 19:49:57 rintaran: This would setup the first 2-year stagger 19:49:59 MikkelPaulson: I'll get to your question in a moment 19:50:11 MikkelPaulson: as I neglected to mention earlier, one of the biggest changes in the amendment is to implement staggered terms 19:50:20 MikkelPaulson: right now, the entire Federal Council is elected every 4 years 19:50:47 MikkelPaulson: the amendment that we just discussed changed that to 4-year staggered terms, so two elected in 2012, then two + leader in 2014 19:50:57 MikkelPaulson: as well as fixed election dates 19:51:11 MikkelPaulson: so in order to make that happen, we need to have two shortened terms, which is what this is all about 19:51:34 MikkelPaulson: any further questions/comments? 19:51:50 securr: Can I ask what the reasoning for this was? 19:51:51 AdamS: excellent, all questions of mine are answered, I'll be more patient in the future 19:51:57 MikkelPaulson: (I think I did already get to your question) 19:51:59 MikkelPaulson: :) 19:52:11 rintaran: The reasoning for staggered terms? 19:52:17 MikkelPaulson: • The Federal Council is never replaced all at once, meaning that some experienced Directors remain at all times. • The Federal Council is more permeable, allowing newer members more frequent opportunities to run. • By electing for only two rather than four positions at a time, the elections would become more competitive and thus more democratic. 19:52:25 MikkelPaulson: no, AdamS' 19:52:52 securr: That was my assumption. Thanks Mikkel. 19:53:10 MikkelPaulson: in case you missed the announcement, Jake just resigned due to insufficient time 19:53:16 MikkelPaulson: which leaves us with two vacant positions 19:53:19 MikkelPaulson: conveniently enough 19:54:00 MikkelPaulson: but we'll be discussing that next 19:54:09 securr: *Cough* A little too convenient if you ask me. 19:54:12 securr: :) 19:54:18 MikkelPaulson: heh 19:54:29 MikkelPaulson: happily our Federal Council has been free of the drama that has plagued the USPP 19:54:42 MikkelPaulson: our biggest concern is that people don't have the time to do what needs to be done 19:55:13 MikkelPaulson: which means that Nuitari, Zblewski, and I were the only active leaders through an entire federal election, and before 19:55:31 MikkelPaulson: burn-out is a significant concern when you have not enough hands working an unpaid and somewhat thankless job 19:55:44 MikkelPaulson: and I think if we lost one more member of the Federal Council it'd seriously cripple the party 19:56:19 MikkelPaulson: in practice our Council has only been a 3-man operation since a few weeks after the election 19:56:40 MikkelPaulson: you only need to look at the attendance logs for the Federal Council meetings 19:57:05 MikkelPaulson: I don't fault Jake and Dan, I understand being swamped with work, but I do think it's good to get some new blood and hopefully bring our Council up to 5 19:57:37 MikkelPaulson: (after our leadership election, I should say) 19:58:05 securr: Is there an expectation that members of the Federal Council contest elections? 19:58:35 AdamS: I would almost hope that some wouldn't 19:59:03 AdamS: to still have some behind the scenes people who could be more focused on Day to Day and general operations than getting elected 19:59:34 MikkelPaulson: there's no requirement one way or another 19:59:41 AdamS: granted, it would be good to have some who do too, faces in teh party and in public 19:59:47 MikkelPaulson: I know Nuitari isn't, new-daddy-to-be and all of that 20:00:05 MikkelPaulson: not sure about Zblewski 20:00:10 MikkelPaulson: I will be running in Edmonton Centre 20:00:32 rintaran: As party leader, you're expected to run though. 20:00:36 MikkelPaulson: indeed 20:00:44 MikkelPaulson: although not required 20:01:19 MikkelPaulson: I know at least one of the people who has indicated an intention to run in the Federal Council by-election is also interested in seeking candidacy 20:01:24 rintaran: Most parties have a "president" for the background side, and a "leader" for the candidacy side. But we don't need to double up. 20:01:37 MikkelPaulson: but we'll see how the election works out 20:02:02 MikkelPaulson: any other comments or can we move on? 20:02:29 scshunt: Are there any objections to this motion? 20:03:18 scshunt: Ok, it passes by unanimous consent 20:03:23 MikkelPaulson: no it doesn't 20:03:26 MikkelPaulson: it has to go to a vote 20:03:37 MikkelPaulson: does it not? 20:03:37 scshunt: if you insist 20:03:41 scshunt: not if everyone agrees 20:04:14 securr: don't all members have a right to vote? 20:04:24 rintaran: I don't think it needs to. Anyone running for those positions is accepting the temporary reduction. 20:04:41 scshunt: We have a rule saying exactly what needs to go for a full vote 20:04:45 scshunt: and this isn't on the list 20:04:50 scshunt: so it can be dealt with simply by a meeting 20:04:57 MikkelPaulson: fair enough 20:05:03 securr: that's efficient. i certainly support it. 20:05:12 MikkelPaulson: the amendment implicitly involves this as well 20:05:19 MikkelPaulson: in that it requires us to designate two positions 20:05:24 MikkelPaulson: the logical two being the vacant ones 20:06:05 scshunt: Yes 20:06:09 scshunt: So are there any objections here? 20:06:44 scshunt: Ok, good, so then it passes. 20:06:52 scshunt: Now MikkelPaulson has one last motion 20:08:10 scshunt: MikkelPaulson? 20:08:12 MikkelPaulson: I move that a by-election be called for the two vacant positions on the Federal Council, effective immediately after the proposed constitutional amendment takes effect or is defeated 20:08:34 scshunt: should that say "beginning"? 20:08:44 MikkelPaulson: sure, 20:08:47 scshunt: also a date would be better 20:08:48 MikkelPaulson: sounds good to me 20:08:54 MikkelPaulson: okay 20:08:58 MikkelPaulson: try again 20:09:13 scshunt: since I'm not sure exactly when it would be considered to be defeated/taking effect. Right after voting ends? 20:09:29 MikkelPaulson: I move that a by-election be called for the two vacant positions on the Federal Council, to begin on December 28, 2010 20:10:10 scshunt: ok 20:10:13 MikkelPaulson: voting should close at 20h EST December 27 20:10:17 scshunt: Is there any seconds? 20:10:28 Araashan: I second 20:10:40 MikkelPaulson: should we elect a RO now? 20:10:49 scshunt: I'm still the RO 20:10:54 scshunt: Ok 20:11:05 scshunt: The motion is as stated by MikkelPaulson. Does anyone object to this? 20:11:14 MikkelPaulson: any discussion? 20:11:25 MikkelPaulson: I have no introductory comments 20:12:27 scshunt: The motion passes by unanimous consent. 20:12:28 Araashan: sorry for the newbie question, but how exactly will the whole thing proceed? 20:12:39 MikkelPaulson: http://piratepad.ca/ep/pad/view/VpNsJGPjkR/s0Cn9BzK8j 20:12:42 MikkelPaulson: as laid out there 20:12:54 Araashan: alright, sorry 20:12:59 MikkelPaulson: specifically 20:13:01 MikkelPaulson: 3.3 An election shall consist of the following: 3.3.1 A nomination period lasting ten (10) days; 3.3.2 A campaigning period lasting three (3) weeks; and 3.3.3 A voting period lasting one (1) week. 20:13:06 MikkelPaulson: no prob 20:13:27 scshunt: Is there any further business? 20:13:29 MikkelPaulson: it's a fair question, we did just change the procedure after all 20:13:40 scshunt: Araashan: if you have any other questions I'd certainly answer them once we wrap up here 20:14:02 Araashan: all clear now 20:14:07 scshunt: Ok, I declare the meeting adjourned.

Also see Minutes