EB 2013-03-17 transcript



All times in central time

18:52 <@RLim> I call this meeting to order 18:53 <@RLim> I am just going to use CCitizen list as our agenda 18:53 <@RLim> first order of business is switching to using loomio for our meeting 18:54 <@RLim> http://council.pirateparty.ca/ 18:54 <@RLim> currently hosted on Travis_McCrea VM 18:55 <@CCitizen> I'd like to ensure we can swap it over to our own servers soon 18:55 <@CCitizen> but for now it works 18:56 <@RLim> ok so we'll test it for now 18:57 <@RLim> any more discussion on this? 18:57 <@RLim> I have a question. So that would be used for online meeting also right? 18:57 <@adpaolucci> Nope, I can give Travis_McCrea a party VM to switch it to ASAP 18:57 <@adpaolucci> yep 18:57 <@RLim> ok 18:58 <@RLim> next on the agenda is discussing the three-way tie for president 18:58 < Travis_McCrea> I will need someones help to migrate it 18:58 < Travis_McCrea> Since I know nothing about postgres 19:00 <@RLim> we should probably ask for volunteers during the GM. I have never used postgres 19:01 <@adpaolucci> for the tie I think we should ask the canadiates if someone wants to step down, if non do we bring it to a GM vote 19:02 < Wilson> Even if 1 steps down, two are still tied 19:03 <@RLim> and what if not all 3 are present 19:04 <@RLim> ? 19:05 <@RLim> maybe we should e-mail them now and ask them to loomio it 19:05 <@RLim> loomio it out :P 19:07 <@RLim> ok I'll e-mail them right now and says if they can discuss it among themselves before the GM meeting 19:07 < Travis_McCrea> Can I ask your opinion on something related to this? I don't know if it's appropriate to tell them but that blank vote during the vote was mine -- I thought we were testing still and by the time I realized that we were not I realized other people had voted and I didn't want to mess things up further. I had voted for Steve Henderson (which would have broke the tie). Of course it's non-binding since it's just my 19:07 < Travis_McCrea> word (my word that I would testify under oath) but I think they should know 19:08 < Travis_McCrea> buuut I can see how that could be seen as rude 19:09 <@RLim> thanks for complicating it further 19:09 <@RLim> lol 19:10 < Travis_McCrea> Well I thought "meh it's 1 vote, what's it going to hurt" 19:10 < Travis_McCrea> lol then 2 seconds later I thought "omg, why did I think that..." 19:10 <@RLim> anyone else want to share their opinion? 19:11 < Travis_McCrea> I feel like they shouldn't be pressured into making a decision based on what I just said, but I do think they have a right to know 19:13 <@RLim> any other ideas? 19:14 < Travis_McCrea> Rock Paper Sicciors also comes to mine 19:14 <@RLim> yeah 19:14 <@RLim> according to the international accepted rules of course 19:14 < Travis_McCrea> I thought internationally accepted rules were for 19:14 < Travis_McCrea> "dibs" 19:14 <@RLim> http://handemonium.ca/ 19:16 <@RLim> ok looks like it might be best to wait for the GM 19:16 <@adpaolucci> what do the party rules say? 19:19 <@CCitizen> Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock :P 19:20 <@adpaolucci> Let's establish a policy for something like this 19:20 <@adpaolucci> and follow through on that policy 19:20 <@RLim> adwhere's the nice list Wilson made up for our current existing rules 19:20 <@RLim> probably won't say anything but just want to take a look 19:20 <@adpaolucci> I would like to put forward the motion that we adopt the following policy "When a EB election turns out a tie said tie will be brought to a monthly GM to be voted on." 19:20 <@RLim> *where's 19:21 <@RLim> any second 19:21 <@RLim> ? 19:22 <@CCitizen> sure although I dont think we need a second with this small of a group 19:23 <@RLim> you are right CCitizen 19:23 <@RLim> any objection? 19:23 <@CCitizen> None here 19:23 <@CCitizen> seems the best way to handle things in the future 19:26 <@adpaolucci> Also if you want to update the PC our Tor relay is running and is strong 19:26 <@adpaolucci> along with 3 hidden bridges for people in countries like Iran and China 19:26 <@adpaolucci> https://atlas.torproject.org/#details/F7278433D0ACA982B643AA12733116631B3BC4D9 19:26 <@adpaolucci> Might make for a good press release in the future about our commitment to helping activists 19:26 <@RLim> cool 19:27 <@RLim> we should share that with GM 19:27 <@RLim> adpaolucci: you want to report on that during our GM? 19:27 <@adpaolucci> Sure 19:27 <@adpaolucci> I'll prep something for the server transition also 19:27 <@adpaolucci> and it's status 19:27 <@RLim> alright seeing no objection to the previous motion. The motion passes 19:28 <@adpaolucci> this one? 19:28 <@adpaolucci> [20:20:47] I would like to put forward the motion that we adopt the following policy "When a EB election turns out a tie said tie will be brought to a monthly GM to be voted on." 19:29 <@RLim> yes sorry should have reposted that for clarity 19:31 <@RLim> Next 19:31 <@RLim> Discuss the possibility of allocating IT a budget for the rest of the year. I figure $800 is sufficient, it would cover domain renewals and/or SSL certs and any incidental minor costs. This would make the IT budget for teh year $3000. Next year we can probably shrink it down to $2500 since we wouldnt have to spend like $600 on a email control panel. 19:32 <@adpaolucci> We will also be dropping select domains, that decision will be put to the PC. 19:32 <@RLim> Sorry just copy and pasted from e-mail 19:32 <@RLim> so want to amke that a formal motion? the IT budget? 19:33 <@adpaolucci> I second the motion 19:34 <@RLim> discussion? 19:34 < Wilson> Can we add an expiry date? 19:35 < Wilson> It just says "for the year" 19:35 < Wilson> opps sorry misread 19:35 <@CCitizen> Well for the year should proably be 'fiscal year' 19:35 <@CCitizen> Not sure when we have to file the taxes for the party 19:36 <@RLim> oo 19:36 <@RLim> we have to file taxes? 19:36 <@RLim> I was waiting for the end to say we need an accountant 19:37 <@RLim> any more discussion on the motion?To allocate IT a budget of $800 for the rest of the year to cover domain renewals and/or SSL certs and incidental minor costs. 19:39 <@CCitizen> at some point 19:39 <@RLim> I have a question. For the benefit of people reading the transcript. Can you give a breakdown of what the cost are? 19:39 <@CCitizen> I dont think we need any more 19:40 <@CCitizen> I think the biggest one we have pending is the wildcard SSL cert in like June for like $120 19:40 <@RLim> so withdraw the motion? 19:40 <@RLim> when is our fiscal year? 19:41 <@RLim> December? 19:41 <@RLim> *end of fiscal year? 19:43 <@RLim> CCitizen: do we still need the motion? 19:44 <@RLim> adpaolucci: ? 19:45 <@adpaolucci> Sorry I was trying to recover some account access 19:45 <@adpaolucci> yes we still do need the motion 19:45 <@RLim> k 19:45 <@RLim> $800? 19:45 <@RLim> any more discussion on the motion? 19:46 <@RLim> what are the expected expenses to provide some context 19:46 <@RLim> ? 19:46 <@adpaolucci> SSL certs 19:46 <@adpaolucci> domain names 19:46 <@adpaolucci> and that pretty much covers it 19:47 <@adpaolucci> anything else needs to be EB approved 19:47 <@RLim> yes 19:48 <@CCitizen> Yeah wanted to make sure there was enough to cover other stuff too if needed 19:49 <@RLim> any objection to the motion before we move on 19:49 <@RLim> 30 seconds 19:49 <@RLim> the motion passes 19:49 <@RLim> Discuss and change the PDC minimum funding scheme from a monthly term to a yearly term ($240/year for all projects vs $20/mo). Might be good since changing our budgeting from a monthly to yearly term will help over time. 19:50 <@RLim> Can we add PDC to give monthly report of spending during GM? 19:50 <@CCitizen> Yeah I figure switching things to a yearly cycle will make things easier I had a full rewrite of the PDC thing at one point 19:50 <@RLim> or does that exist on our rules somewhere? 19:50 <@CCitizen> I can give you guys a weekly report too 19:50 <@RLim> ok 19:50 <@RLim> any more discussion? 19:51 <@RLim> any objection to the motion 19:52 <@RLim> speak now or forever hold your peace. 30 seconds 19:52 <@RLim> motion passes 19:52 <@RLim> iscuss the possibility of the PC's 'Tent/Trade Show Booth' type thing costing more than $500 they've been allocated. 19:52 <@RLim> what is this? 19:52 <@RLim> *Discuss 19:53 <@RLim> they've been allocated already? 19:53 <@CCitizen> Well a good one wil take more than $500 I'm sure but I guess we should wait to see what the PC wants to do 19:54 <@RLim> ok 19:54 <@RLim> we will set that aside for now 19:54 <@RLim> Check out the financial report Ric has been getting ready for the GM. 19:54 <@RLim> well. unfortunately I was busy over the weekend and some unplanned things came up that I have to deal with 19:54 <@RLim> so no report yet 19:54 <@RLim> I'll try to get that done tomorrow night and e-mailed EB and PC 19:55 <@RLim> *e-mail 19:55 <@RLim> any discussion? 19:56 <@RLim> movin on in 30, 29,.... 19:57 <@RLim> next one I would like to bring up is by-election 19:57 <@RLim> this is more PC thing 19:57 <@CCitizen> np 19:57 <@RLim> brokensyntax McGrath pappasadrian Travis_McCrea Wilson 19:57 < Wilson> yup 19:57 huh? 19:57 <@RLim> but if our candidate have difficulty getting funds 19:57 <@RLim> I'll suggest we do a crowdfunding from our website 19:58 < Wilson> We need a mailout to members about it looking for a candidate 19:58 <@RLim> to fund their candidacy 19:58 <@RLim> deposit and flyers 19:58 < Wilson> We need a candidate first 19:58 <@RLim> ok 19:58 < Wilson> Plus, you may want to check EC rules on us raising money for a candidate. 19:58 <@RLim> oh? 19:58 <@RLim> it's party related though 19:59 < Travis_McCrea> I know that we discussed eliminating some of that after a former leader of the party cut and ran with our 1K 19:59 <@RLim> yes we did so the deposit is best that the candidate come up with that himself 20:00 <@RLim> but for flyers and advertising, I think it's ok to crowdfund for that. 20:00 <@RLim> They can't cut and ran with that or that would be fraud 20:00 <@CCitizen> we're allowed to raise money for candidates or rather candidates are allowed to raise money for an election separately from a party 20:00 <@RLim> as opposed to not care about getting $1k deposit back and leaving the party holding the bill 20:01 <@RLim> and that's where we come up short usually. Money for advertising 20:02 <@RLim> and it's better to remove any questions about whether it is a good use of our small funds 20:02 <@RLim> whoever contribute is contributing for that purpose 20:03 <@RLim> also we should get a candidate chosen and funds ready. Not wait until electon is called. It will give us a head start since we are more tortoise than hare in this race 20:04 <@RLim> :) 20:04 <@RLim> so just thought we start thinking about that 20:04 <@RLim> any more discussion? 20:05 <@adpaolucci> I demand more nerds 20:05 <@adpaolucci> or geeks 20:05 <@adpaolucci> or sysadmins 20:06 <@RLim> or ladies 20:06 <@adpaolucci> they just need to know about Linux and php 20:06 <@adpaolucci> That's even better 20:06 <@RLim> when I said up to the candidate to come up with the deposit himself 20:06 <@RLim> I mean himself/herself :P 20:06 <@RLim> yeah we should mention that in our GM 20:06 <@RLim> we need more nerds to help adpaolucci 20:07 <@adpaolucci> We also need to get the password for the twitter account 20:07 <@RLim> Wilson have that I believe 20:07 <@adpaolucci> it's not signedup using a @pirateparty.ca email 20:07 < Wilson> I don't have twitter access 20:08 <@RLim> oh Shawn Vulliez have it I think 20:08 <@RLim> not sure if Steve H have it or not 20:08 <@RLim> are either of them at PC meeting today? 20:08 <@RLim> Wilson, where's your nice list of rules of order that are in place? 20:09 < Wilson> sec. 20:10 <@RLim> while waiting. there's two other business that we need to deal with 20:11 <@RLim> Nuitari sent out an e-mail asking for where to sent some statements and bookkeeping paperwork to? 20:11 <@RLim> CCitizen ? would that be to us? 20:11 <@RLim> at the Fund? 20:11 <@CCitizen> Yeah probably Jake technically but bleh 20:12 <@CCitizen> yeah we're gonna end up having to switch some things around 20:12 < Travis_McCrea> Please don't send them to Jake 20:12 <@RLim> ok I'll have him sent it to me for now 20:12 <@CCitizen> Yeah get them sent to ric 20:12 < Wilson> k. I'm having trouble getting on the wiki. It is on the EB page under 'Rules and Procedures currently in effect' 20:13 <@RLim> got it 20:13 <@RLim> thanks 20:13 <@RLim> Wilson 20:13 <@CCitizen> I'd like to get 4-5 officers in the fund since we need 3 minimum by law typically 20:13 <@RLim> yeah 20:13 <@RLim> more is better 20:13 <@RLim> less chance of burnout 20:13 <@RLim> adpaolucci: 20:13 <@RLim> regarding login info. Once you manage to get all access info 20:13 <@adpaolucci> I'm ok being added as an Op 20:14 <@RLim> there is exisitng rule 20:14 <@RLim> 2013-01-27 The President, Vice President and the Secretary are the custodian of all party's records. All members and officers shall make sure that the Secretary is informed of any update to the records. The Secretary shall maintain and keep the records up-to-date and make sure the President and Vice President have access to the updated records. Records includes all documents related to party's business and all party related systems login information. This motion would come into effect after the February 2013 officers election and shall apply to the newly elected or appointed officers. 20:14 <@adpaolucci> Well technically if you are in the Dropbox share you have all the passwords 20:14 <@adpaolucci> they are just in an encrypted file 20:14 <@RLim> we can amend that if you are uncomfortable with having many people with access 20:14 <@adpaolucci> I need to think of a way to get you guys the password 20:14 <@adpaolucci> Well the less the better 20:14 <@RLim> e-mail to my gpg key 20:14 <@RLim> ? 20:15 <@adpaolucci> I would want 4 people including me to have access, no more then that 20:15 <@RLim> but we really need to get the twitter password 20:15 <@RLim> make it easier to send a reminder before a meeting etc 20:15 <@adpaolucci> and engage the public in conversation 20:16 <@RLim> hmm surpised I did not have leader there 20:16 <@RLim> anyone wants to amend that rule? 20:16 <@adpaolucci> nope 20:16 <@adpaolucci> just to tick Travis off :P 20:17 <@RLim> lol 20:17 <@RLim> I think we can do without vp 20:18 <@RLim> secretary as long as we are sure there's 4 people who have access 20:18 <@RLim> *or secretary 20:19 <@RLim> any other discussion with regards to this? 20:20 <@CCitizen> we decided to use loomio for EB stuff too right? 20:20 < Travis_McCrea> I still have a problem with us using dropbox but that is a discussion for the the IT comm 20:21 <@RLim> yeah to start testing rather than a formal motion to use it 20:21 <@RLim> that's my understanding 20:21 <@adpaolucci> Travis_McCrea: I'm slowly switching to a self hosted system 20:21 <@adpaolucci> but we have more important stuff before that 20:22 <@RLim> another Nuitaris' question. 20:22 <@RLim> 514... is I number I'm currently paying for and is used for the party as the local montreal number. Do you still need it ? 20:22 <@RLim> If yes, please port it out to your telephony service provider account. 20:22 <@RLim> Else I can simply cancel it. 20:22 <@CCitizen> Yeah we'll probably switch over from dropbox to our own solution 20:22 <@RLim> I'll say just cancel it probably eh Travis_McCrea ? 20:22 <@RLim> or you want to maintain a montreal hideout 20:23 <@RLim> I mean montreal base 20:23 < Travis_McCrea> I am all for cancelling it. I was telling the IT Comm that I would like to pick up twilio for pirate party phone numbers 20:23 <@RLim> ok 20:23 < Travis_McCrea> I do want to revive an 800 number and a local number… but based in Toronto not Montreal 20:23 <@RLim> Nuitari's issue done. I'll e-mail him tonight 20:23 <@RLim> do we need a recurring bill though? 20:23 <@RLim> or just during the election 20:23 <@RLim> ? 20:24 < Travis_McCrea> We used to get lots of press calls on the 800 number 20:24 < Travis_McCrea> the 800 number picked up the call to go on Al Jazeera because USPP didn't have an 800 number 20:24 <@RLim> I did not know we still have that number when you went to Al jazeera 20:24 < Travis_McCrea> Yep that's how we got the gig 20:25 <@RLim> then it's worth keeping them 20:25 <@adpaolucci> wait whats this with Al jazeera? 20:25 <@RLim> or do we still have it? 20:25 < Travis_McCrea> we don't we need a new one 20:25 <@RLim> Travis_McCrea on al jazeera 20:25 < Travis_McCrea> Again I am suggesting we use Twilio 20:25 < Travis_McCrea> Last year 20:25 < Travis_McCrea> Not twill last year, I was on AJ last year.. .we should use Twilio now ;) 20:25 <@CCitizen> It was Al Jezeera English :) 20:25 <@RLim> ok something to discuss over at IT I guess 20:26 <@RLim> yeah but we still have that 800 number? 20:26 < Travis_McCrea> No I don't think so 20:26 < Travis_McCrea> I think Nuitari was in charge of it, if we do, he has it 20:26 <@RLim> Imagine Travis_McCrea speaking arabic 20:26 <@RLim> ok I'll ask him aslo 20:26 <@RLim> *also 20:27 <@RLim> one important outstanding issue 20:27 <@RLim> tax receipts 20:27 <@RLim> members are asking 20:27 <@RLim> just as I feared 20:28 <@RLim> here's what Nuitari said on his e-mail 20:28 <@RLim> Jake Daynes has the software and database to generate them. The software is called efr and it is provided by election Canada. You have to get the DB as the numbering has to be continued properly. 20:28 <@RLim> The good news is that donations can be imported by csv. 20:28 <@RLim> so we need to get access on that datavase 20:28 <@RLim> *database 20:29 <@CCitizen> Can we make a motion and get our discussions going on loomio with the same rules the PC is using 20:29 <@RLim> Jake e-mailed saying he will be giving it to Shawn or Johann soon 20:29 <@RLim> introduce a motion CCitizen 20:30 <@RLim> anyway action for myself to e-mail Jake, Shawn and Johann 20:30 <@RLim> see who wants to take care of it 20:30 <@RLim> should I take that on? 20:30 <@RLim> Not sure how much demand on time that would need 20:30 <@CCitizen> I'll make a motion we adopt Loomio for asyncronous meetings and use the same Loomio Rules of Order that the Political Council uses 20:30 <@RLim> which is? 20:31 <@CCitizen> https://www.piratepad.ca/p/LoomioRulesofOrder 20:31 <@RLim> any discussion? 20:32 <@RLim> any objection? 20:33 <@RLim> seeing none. the motion passes 20:33 <@CCitizen> I guess not... looks like wecan use it too :) 20:33 <@RLim> so meeting at loomio next week? 20:33 < Travis_McCrea> I tried to word it very generically 20:34 <@RLim> can non-isers access loomio? 20:34 <@RLim> non-users 20:34 <@RLim> * 20:34 < Travis_McCrea> RLim you don't really have a meeting "at loomio" -- and they can if we enable the settings for it 20:34 <@RLim> I see. That's more like what we have for forum meeting then? 20:34 <@RLim> cool 20:34 < Travis_McCrea> Right now it's all private, which allows us to talk off the record. However, it can be changed group by group. 20:35 <@RLim> have not read the rules 20:35 <@RLim> but if there's a motion or important discussion posted 20:35 <@RLim> it might be best to e-mail people 20:35 <@RLim> or does loomio do that? 20:35 < Travis_McCrea> If a user messages us about something private, for instance, it allows us to discuss their needs or request without media or whoever else breaking our trust. Loomio does that 20:36 < Travis_McCrea> and it's in the Rules of Order already 20:36 < Travis_McCrea> ;) 20:36 <@RLim> ok 20:36 <@RLim> one other thing 20:36 <@RLim> how do we go about looking for an accountant? 20:37 <@RLim> CCitizen: we have our two members for the Fund. We just have to ask them to ask us. 20:37 <@RLim> :P 20:37 <@RLim> 2012-09-16 Individuals who hold the office of President and Vice President may be made agents of the party if they ask for it. 20:39 <@CCitizen> Yeha theres a difference between agent and officer though 20:39 <@RLim> you are right 20:39 <@RLim> who else can we coerce into that position? :) 20:40 <@RLim> ok I'll ask Johann or Shawn if they want to take that db for tax receipts and contributions on? 20:40 <@RLim> also need to track that people are not going over their contribution limit. 20:40 <@RLim> Not sure if the onus is on us or the member 20:40 <@CCitizen> we need somsone who isnt gonna run for public office 20:40 <@RLim> should I take that on if Shawn or Johann does not have time 20:40 < Wilson> Speaking of which: Ask Shawn about the membership cards. 20:40 <@CCitizen> and probably 18+ 20:41 < Travis_McCrea> Shawn said he will be mailing me the card machine 20:41 < Travis_McCrea> I don't know if he is going to do the ones that him and jake were supposed to do before 20:41 <@RLim> just don't want to be the next burnout ppca officer. :) 20:41 <@CCitizen> ok 20:41 <@RLim> ok 20:41 <@RLim> Travis_McCrea: what about the tax receipt 20:41 < Travis_McCrea> I will ask him to, it would be really helpful for me to get a clean slate 20:41 <@RLim> the software and the database for it 20:41 <@RLim> ? 20:42 < Travis_McCrea> Sorry I don't know what you are referring to exactly 20:42 <@RLim> That might involve quite a bit of work depending on when was the last time we sent out the tax receipts 20:42 <@RLim> and people want it to do their income tax 20:42 <@RLim> Travis_McCrea: we were suppose to sent tasx receipts for all contributions and member sign up 20:43 <@RLim> since people are filing their taxes now. they are asking when the tax receipts will be sent 20:43 <@RLim> Accoding to Nuitari, Jake have the software and database 20:43 < Travis_McCrea> I will do what needs to be done, I have my girlfriend here and we will crank it out. 20:43 <@RLim> there is probably an access code 20:43 <@RLim> for EC 20:44 <@RLim> ok so I'll leave that to you to sort it out with Jake and Shawn/Johann 20:44 <@RLim> ? 20:44 <@CCitizen> Also if jake cant help us we should talk to EC directly 20:44 < Travis_McCrea> :( yeahhh 20:44 <@RLim> but the tax receipts probably have to go out soon 20:44 <@RLim> CCitizen: last resort. It's not going to look good 20:44 <@RLim> also one important thing I almost forgot 20:44 <@RLim> Election Canada asking about discrepancy in our financial statement and reporting 20:45 <@RLim> did I forward that e-mail to everyone? 20:45 < Travis_McCrea> I didn't get it? 20:45 <@RLim> If not I can forward it to EB and PC 20:45 <@RLim> I think we should probably look into that soon 20:45 <@RLim> how to we divide up the work? Don't want Travis_McCrea to shoulder everything 20:46 < Travis_McCrea> The other thing is that if they need physical letters sent out to them, then we will have to send two different letters because we can't get the card reader shipped 20:46 < Travis_McCrea> and get everything printed out and done in less than 2 weeks 20:46 < Travis_McCrea> though we should be able to get tax stuff out within a week or two. 20:46 < Travis_McCrea> Then again, I am on vacation until next Tuesday. 20:46 <@CCitizen> yeah I got it 20:47 <@RLim> actually that sounds more like for the fund 20:47 <@RLim> the EC issues 20:47 < Travis_McCrea> So if you guys get the tax stuff done, I will do all the card stuff -- if that is okay? 20:47 <@RLim> But I need to know where old records is. 20:47 <@RLim> I'll wait and see what Nuitari have 20:48 < Travis_McCrea> I will also actually have my computer while I am in California visiting my brother and still have 8 hours a day for the party, but won't be here to mail anything. 20:51 <@RLim> I guess that's it if no one else have any other business 20:52 <@RLim> so mailout with call for candidates for the by-election should probably go out soon after the GM? 20:54 <@RLim> even if we figure out who the president is. VP position will still be tied. 20:54 <@RLim> le sigh 20:55 <@RLim> any objection to adjourning this meeting? 20:57 <@CCitizen> none here 20:57 <@RLim> ok this meeting is adjourned until next Sunday



View minutes