EB 2012-08-05 transcript

 NOTE: All log times are in Canadian Central Time.

18:30 < JohannWeiss> Well I guess I can call this to order. JMcleod, are you able to be chair, or should I? 18:31 <@JMcleod> Its still pretty black outside, better if you do 18:31 < JohannWeiss> Alright 18:31 < JohannWeiss> RLim, are you back? 18:32 < RLim> yep sorry about that 18:33 < JohannWeiss> It's alright, I was gonna wait to start the meeting so you could do mintues. 18:33 < JohannWeiss> Is now good?> 18:33 < RLim> yep 18:34 < JohannWeiss> Alright, calling this meeting of the exec to order at 16:34 PST 18:34 <@JMcleod> is it not PDT? 18:34 < JohannWeiss> ping shawnvulliez CCitizen 18:34 <@CCitizen> Yeah 18:34 < JohannWeiss> pacific standard time 18:35 < JohannWeiss> right? 18:35 < JohannWeiss> just pinging you cause the meeting is starting 18:35 <@JMcleod> no pacific daylight's saving time? 18:35 < JohannWeiss> I don't know, doesn't matter very much 18:35 < JohannWeiss> Does anyone have any motions to bring forward 18:36 < JohannWeiss> ? 18:36 < RLim> well if I am not sure i usually just say central time omitting standard or daylight 18:36 < RLim> :P 18:36 < RLim> minutes 18:36 < RLim> approval 18:36 < JohannWeiss> Right 18:36 < RLim> http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/EB_2012-07-29_minutes 18:37 < JohannWeiss> Minutes 18:37 < JohannWeiss> Any ommisions or changes to those? 18:41 < RLim> hi sorry about that 18:42 < RLim> sorry got dc 18:42 <@shawnvulliez> I have no idea re: last weeks minutes - I was on a portable device IIRC 18:42 <@CCitizen> I think the president can approve expenses under what $100? 18:42 <@CCitizen> usually used for buying domain names and stuf 18:42 <@JMcleod> as agents 18:43 < RLim> I guess the minutes have been approved? 18:43 < JohannWeiss> yes 18:43 <@JMcleod> Yeah they have 18:43 <@CCitizen> without having to go through a meeting 18:43 < RLim> isn't that job of the fund as agent 18:43 < JohannWeiss> We are just discussing the wording of a motion Jack brought foward 18:43 < JohannWeiss> "I move to make James Wilson an agent of the party for the purpose of collecting donations and approving minor expenses, which must be reported to the EB." 18:43 < JohannWeiss> Clarifying what minor expenses would mean 18:43 < RLim> oh ok 18:44 < JohannWeiss> I don't know much about the agents/funds situation so I'm just hoping you guys do 18:44 <@CCitizen> How big of expenses is he expected to have? 18:45 <@JMcleod> Sean Hunt moved "to appoint myself and Jack McLeod as registered agents of the party will full authority." Motion was adopted after debate. 3 ayes, 0 nays, 2 abstain. (we never set a limit in the past either) 18:45 < SeanHunt> RLim: No, it is not the job of the fund 18:45 < JohannWeiss> The purpose of making him an agent was from this post http://dev.pirateparty.ca/forum/topic/general-questions-about-nuances-copyright-and-party-regulations 18:45 < SeanHunt> JMcleod: There was a separate motion 18:45 <@CCitizen> They didnt set limits because the limit is full authority 18:45 < SeanHunt> There are two separate rules 18:45 <@CCitizen> so they could do whatever 18:45 < SeanHunt> the rules as to what power we have as agents, and the rules as to how we can use the power 18:46 < SeanHunt> I can approve the expenditure of the entire bank account, but I would be doing so with no authority from the party's management 18:46 <@JMcleod> The other motion was for the president & VP 18:46 <@JMcleod> Sean Hunt move ?that the President and Vice-President be delegated the power to approve petty expenses no more than $100, to a mximum of $300 per person per seven-day period; and Resolved, that they shall report any expenses that they so approve to the Executive Board at the next meeting.? Motion was adopted after discussion and amendment. 18:46 < SeanHunt> at least, that is how I interpret things 18:46 <@CCitizen> I mean if he's only gonna have expenses of like $25 then a cap of like $50 would work... 18:47 < JohannWeiss> Wasn't he just asking to be an agent to *collect* funds, not to spend them? 18:47 < SeanHunt> ^ That was my understanding. 18:48 <@JMcleod> Yeah well if he needs cards or anything, then he'd need to get a hold of someone 18:48 < SeanHunt> you or Johann at the moment, yes 18:49 < JohannWeiss> So JMcleod, how about "I move to make James Wilson an agent of the party for the purpose of collecting donations" 18:49 <@JMcleod> Yeah keep it at that 18:49 <@CCitizen> Well approving him to collect funds works better 18:49 < JohannWeiss> Also, the SeanHunt: is there any legal issue with the wording of 'collecting funds' rather the 'collecting donations'? 18:50 < JohannWeiss> Scratch that 'also' at the beginning of my last message 18:50 < SeanHunt> JohannWeiss: I don't think so. 18:50 < JohannWeiss> ...and then 18:50 < SeanHunt> JohannWeiss: "collect contributions" would be the most technically correct 18:50 <@JMcleod> then lets use collect contributions :) 18:50 < JohannWeiss> So then "I move to make James Wilson an agent of the party for the purpose of collecting contributions" 18:50 <@JMcleod> Ok looks good to me 18:51 < JohannWeiss> The motion being discuss is "to make James Wilson an agent of the party for the purpose of collecting contributions" 18:51 < JohannWeiss> discussed** 18:51 < SeanHunt> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsiuxim8vsM&playnext=1&list=PL5DDF4222296F8995&feature=results_main 18:51 < JohannWeiss> Is there any debate or discussion on the issue? 18:51 < JohannWeiss> :) Nice 18:52 <@CCitizen> Probably not since we just discussed it 18:52 < JohannWeiss> If any of you guys are just waiting for things to move along, say so. I'm giving time between doing stuff, cause I don't know if you've read the last post or not 18:53 <@JMcleod> nothing else to discuss :) 18:53 < JohannWeiss> Alright, seeing no debate, the motion is passed unanimously. 18:53 <@shawnvulliez> James Wilson is a good man. 18:53 < SeanHunt> shawnvulliez: I have PC stuff to discuss 18:53 <@JMcleod> Yeah we know :) now you have another letter to write Shawn 18:54 < JohannWeiss> Anyone else have a motion to bring forward? (I'm waiting on my things because I have to give the chair to the Pres to do so) 18:54 < SeanHunt> no you don't 18:54 < JohannWeiss> Is that just in the GM? 18:54 < SeanHunt> yeah 18:54 < JohannWeiss> Right ho then 18:54 < SeanHunt> that would be unreasonable here 18:54 < JohannWeiss> :) 18:55 < JohannWeiss> So, motion #1: The executive board will create a series of Regional Volunteer Coordinator positions, one for each province. The positions will be appointed by the National Volunteer Coordinator and report directly to the National Volunteer Coordinator. They will be given a PPCA email address (*Prov-Code*-volunteer@pirateparty.ca, eg. BC-volunteer@pirateparty.ca), access to an email list containing all Pirate members in their area and will become 18:56 < RLim> cutoff at will become 18:56 < SeanHunt> tip: splitlines.pl 18:56 < SeanHunt> err 18:56 < SeanHunt> splitlong.pl 18:56 <@CCitizen> hehe I prefer just using xchat 18:56 <@JMcleod> The executive board creates a series of Regional Volunteer Coordinator positions, one for each province. The positions will be appointed by the National Volunteer Coordinator and report directly to the National Volunteer Coordinator. They will be given a PPCA email address (*Prov-Code*-volunteer@pirateparty.ca, eg. BC-volunteer@pirateparty.ca) and will become moderators for their regional section of the forums. Their task will be to coordinate any 18:56 <@JMcleod> volunteer efforts in the region and to facilitate the organizing of Pirate events. Primarily they should act as a convenient place for any Pirate member to get information as to how they can help the party and what resources they can get access to, if they wish to host an event. 18:56 <@CCitizen> it has that built in 18:56 <@JMcleod> Thats what he wants to post I think 18:57 < JohannWeiss> ... I feel like an IRC newb right now 18:57 < JohannWeiss> How do I do that? 18:57 < SeanHunt> JohannWeiss: Depends on your client 18:57 <@JMcleod> With KVirc I rightclick & choose paste slowly 18:57 < SeanHunt> You're using some flavour of Purple, so I don't know what the correct way is :) 18:57 < SeanHunt> xchat, irssi (with splitlong.pl) and chatzilla will all automatically split long lines 18:58 < JohannWeiss> pidgen 18:58 < SeanHunt> never used it 18:58 < SeanHunt> anyway 18:58 < SeanHunt> is that your motion? 18:58 <@JMcleod> pidgen I deleted after 15minutes 18:58 < JohannWeiss> "The executive board creates a series of Regional Volunteer Coordinator positions, one for each province. The positions will be appointed by the National Volunteer Coordinator and report directly to the National Volunteer Coordinator. They will be given a PPCA email address (*Prov-Code*-volunteer@pirateparty.ca, eg. BC-volunteer@pirateparty.ca) and will ... 18:58 < JohannWeiss> become moderators for their regional section of the forums. Their task will be to coordinate any volunteer efforts in the region and to facilitate the organizing of Pirate events. Primarily they should act as a convenient place for any Pirate member to get information as to how they can help the party and what resources they can get access to, if they wish to host an event. " 18:58 < JohannWeiss> Better? 18:58 < SeanHunt> yes :) 18:58 < JohannWeiss> I added one bit in the middle so the emailed one is not exactly the same 18:58 <@CCitizen> sounds good 18:59 <@CCitizen> I'm assuming we'd be filling those positions with people or letting people know they're available 18:59 < SeanHunt> I have one question about this 18:59 < SeanHunt> actually two 18:59 < SeanHunt> a) what about territories? 18:59 < JohannWeiss> Dang 18:59 < JohannWeiss> right, so just gonna add that in 18:59 < JohannWeiss> next? 18:59 < SeanHunt> b) Do we actually need this? 18:59 <@JMcleod> We should consider territories as provinces 18:59 <@JMcleod> ;) 18:59 < SeanHunt> Is there so much work on the NVC that we can't stand this? 19:00 <@CCitizen> If someone wants to they can but I think any provice or territory without a large enough contingeont 19:00 <@JMcleod> The volunteer coordinator seems to want that kinda structure, is it needed? It will most likely be if we grow. :) 19:00 < SeanHunt> Sure, it will most likely be 19:00 < JohannWeiss> It's just about the amount of work, more about having one simple place to get info. 19:00 < SeanHunt> but is it needed now, or are we setting ourselves up to fill two of these positions 19:01 < RLim> it's also good to encourage more activity at local level. To build themselves up 19:01 < SeanHunt> and have the other 11 provinces/territories run neglected because the NVC keeps going "I need a RVC" 19:01 < JohannWeiss> I'm planing for growth primarily 19:01 < JohannWeiss> They would default to the National Coordinator 19:02 < SeanHunt> I'd feel slightly better if that were added to the motion 19:02 < JohannWeiss> That sounds good 19:04 < JohannWeiss> So add to the end "If there is no Regional Volunteer Coordinator for an area, then any enquiries will be directed to the National Volunteer Coordinator". 19:04 < JohannWeiss> Any more problems or comments? 19:08 < JohannWeiss> So now the motion reads: "The executive board creates a series of Regional Volunteer Coordinator positions, one for each province. The positions will be appointed by the National Volunteer Coordinator and report directly to the National Volunteer Coordinator. They will be given a PPCA email address (*Prov-Code*-volunteer@pirateparty.ca, eg. BC-volunteer@pirateparty.ca) and ..." 19:08 < JohannWeiss> scratch that 19:09 < JohannWeiss> The executive board creates a series of Regional Volunteer Coordinator positions, one for each province or territory. The positions will be appointed by the National Volunteer Coordinator and report directly to the National Volunteer Coordinator. They will be given a PPCA email address (*Prov-Code*-volunteer@pirateparty.ca, eg. BC-volunteer@pirateparty.ca) and ... 19:09 < JohannWeiss> access to an email list containing all Pirate members in their area and will become moderators for their regional section of the forums. Their task will be to coordinate any volunteer efforts in the region and to facilitate the organizing of Pirate events. ... 19:10 < JohannWeiss> Primarily they should act as a convenient place for any Pirate member to get information as to how they can help the party and what resources they can get access to, if they wish to host an event. If there is no Regional Volunteer Coordinator for an area, then any enquiries will be directed to the National Volunteer Coordinator. 19:10 < JohannWeiss> There, that's the motion 19:10 < JohannWeiss> Any debate? 19:10 <@JMcleod> Nope, other than I agree with that :) 19:11 < JohannWeiss> Seeing no debate the motion passes unanimously. 19:12 < JohannWeiss> So onto the next thing: Every person holding an administrative position in the party (council members, executive members, and any standing committee heads) should keep a simple up to date log of their job. It should include what their duties are and how they are performed (what access is needed and who to speak to to get that access). ... 19:12 < JohannWeiss> ... It should also include a continually updated section on what projects/tasks are currently being worked on. This document can then be passed on to the next person to fill the role, giving them a single document which states what they need to do and how. It would also help temporary projects from getting dropped post-election. 19:14 < JohannWeiss> Any debate or discussion on it? 19:15 <@JMcleod> still reading 19:15 < JohannWeiss> Take your time 19:15 < RLim> Looks good. Hopefully it will get more feedback than the last attempt to gather list of people with access to stuff 19:16 <@JMcleod> Doesn't look too hard 19:16 <@CCitizen> Sounds good 19:16 <@CCitizen> would make it easier for transitions 19:16 < JohannWeiss> Yes, that was the idea 19:16 < SeanHunt> Wait. The NVC is the VP right? 19:16 <@CCitizen> Instead of the multi month mess switching the fund and stuff over was 19:16 <@JMcleod> Yeah Sean 19:16 < JohannWeiss> Sean: yes, currently 19:16 < SeanHunt> ok 19:17 < JohannWeiss> I wanted to make sure it didn't cause any conflicts if the position shifts due to a future GM. 19:17 <@JMcleod> And we already passed that if VP takes over pres he remains NVC until replacement is foudn 19:17 < JohannWeiss> Figured I'd tie it to the relevant task rather then the current position in charge of the task 19:18 < JohannWeiss> One thing I had yet to add to this motion is who has access to this log 19:18 < SeanHunt> Hmm 19:18 < SeanHunt> While I think transition information is a very good thing 19:18 < SeanHunt> I'm lukewarm to thi 19:18 < SeanHunt> *this 19:18 < JohannWeiss> Any specifics? 19:19 < SeanHunt> I fear it will lead to too much time nitpicking over ultimately-inconsequential reports 19:19 < SeanHunt> I've seen the ugly side of too much reporting 19:19 < SeanHunt> and it's pretty bad; so much time is wasted producing reports on information that is available through other means 19:20 < SeanHunt> in particular, this risks each member of, say, EB, reporting on what EB is and what it is currently doing 19:20 < SeanHunt> Now, most of us aren't partial to reports as it is 19:20 < SeanHunt> but the risk is that it gets ingrained in the culture 19:20 < SeanHunt> and it just becomes this thing that gets done 19:20 < SeanHunt> as it is, we have many volunteers with limited time 19:20 < SeanHunt> requiring them to do reports would just drain from actual useful time 19:21 < SeanHunt> and would make them feel like something is getting done when it really isn't 19:21 < JohannWeiss> Well I've been having trouble getting to the information without constantly asking people for it, like exactly what is the duties and responsibilities of each position. 19:21 < JohannWeiss> We've also had several deadlines missed and paperwork not filed on time 19:21 < JohannWeiss> Which means to me that we don't have a handle on duties and schedules 19:22 < SeanHunt> Sure. But this isn't going to get better by us reporting things to each other 19:22 < SeanHunt> That would just make it worse 19:22 < SeanHunt> It's ultimately up to us, as the leadership, to make sure that we're doing our own jobs 19:22 < JohannWeiss> It's not reporting to each other, it's reporting a log so that your replacement isn't jumping into the deep end 19:23 < SeanHunt> same thing 19:23 <@JMcleod> It doesnt have to be a detailed log if I read this right 19:23 < RLim> maybe just a report and to be updated as changes happen 19:23 < JohannWeiss> Not at all 19:23 <@JMcleod> Just basically an online todo list 19:23 < SeanHunt> I don't want to have to produce a writeup about PC for my successor 19:23 < RLim> rather than regular log 19:23 < SeanHunt> Unless I am producing a /single/ writeup for any member of PC. 19:23 < SeanHunt> And I certainly am not going to include all my knowledge in there 19:23 < RLim> why not? 19:23 < JohannWeiss> It's not what it's asking you to do, but you coudl give the basics 19:24 < SeanHunt> Because some of it is duplicated 19:24 < RLim> ok 19:24 < SeanHunt> Some of it may not need to be passed on, if I hold other roles 19:24 < RLim> I am a bit worried about how we don't have a handle on things though 19:24 < RLim> who is suppose to renew domains 19:24 < RLim> ? 19:25 < JohannWeiss> RLim: exactly. We also often have complete newcomers running for important positions 19:25 < RLim> etc etc. and it had caused us problem already 19:25 < RLim> which could have been much worse 19:25 < JohannWeiss> They may have good intentions, but wont know that say, this paperwork as to be filed by this day or we could lost our status. 19:25 < JohannWeiss> has** 19:26 < SeanHunt> See, i think more general guides would be useful 19:26 < SeanHunt> and I am willing to write them up 19:26 < SeanHunt> but we already have issues of not knowing who is responsible for what 19:26 < JohannWeiss> What do you mean by more general? 19:26 < SeanHunt> this is not a succession issue; it is a structure issue 19:26 < SeanHunt> RLim's domain names example is a good one 19:26 < RLim> I like this motion that it put onus on the person to write the report. I prefer a summary report also rather than keeping logs 19:26 < SeanHunt> because it would not have been improved by better succession planning 19:27 < RLim> I tried starting a log of who have access to what and that did not go far since it's still missing a lot of information 19:27 < SeanHunt> also, to argue the flip side, the scope is too narrow 19:27 < SeanHunt> RLim: yeah. But we should focus more on initiatives like that 19:27 < JohannWeiss> RLim: So a summary report would just be written before you leave your position? 19:28 < SeanHunt> We need to figure out somehow to penalize those who fail to work on documentation 19:28 <@JMcleod> for me atm its short 19:28 <@JMcleod> TODO 19:28 < SeanHunt> I would rather see a comprehensive guide produced on the duties of each position 19:28 < RLim> no we can write it now and maybe review it once a year or before you leave 19:28 <@JMcleod> Fund, Website with Jake Daynes 19:28 <@JMcleod> Getting us up to date with EC 19:28 <@JMcleod> Start creating a plan to get 250 signatures for next years renewal with EC to stay registered. 19:28 <@JMcleod> Wilson wants to be agent 19:28 <@JMcleod> Eventually discuss mumble, depending on limit, we could perhaps attract gamers to the PPCA through a chat service. 19:28 < SeanHunt> Rather than having us all run off individually and talk about we do 19:28 < SeanHunt> if we do it in concert, it lets us identify holes 19:29 < SeanHunt> and overloaded people 19:29 < RLim> how many meetings would that take? 19:29 < JohannWeiss> I'm okay with doing it together, as long as their is some way to keep it upto date with any changes made in our structure (they have been frequent over the past year) 19:29 <@JMcleod> Well my idea with website done was to start creating something with all info on who does what. Something another party could use eventually. 19:30 <@JMcleod> But web site is lagging behind 19:30 < SeanHunt> RLim: I would say we should gather a 3-man committee for this 19:30 < SeanHunt> they can talk to people, find all the caveats 19:30 < RLim> and then the committee have to chase after people to give those information and know where to search 19:30 < RLim> I guess everyone can do it a quick summary 19:30 < SeanHunt> we need to chase after everyone anyway 19:31 < RLim> then we as a group or committee can review and see if there's anything else missing 19:31 <@JMcleod> If everyone can do a quick summary, like my todo list 19:31 < SeanHunt> there's one other advantage to something like a comprehensive guide; if you're writing it down easy, you will take things for granted 19:31 <@JMcleod> or was that too short? 19:31 < SeanHunt> I've done this in transition stuff before. If all you do is write a doc, you /will/ forget things 19:31 < SeanHunt> because you will assume that X is obvious, or that Y isn't important 19:31 < RLim> I don't think it should be something that you have to do often 19:31 < JohannWeiss> How about we ask everyone to submit a breif summary to that committee and then they compile it together and look for holes? 19:31 < SeanHunt> you need other people who have worked with you to help you out 19:32 < SeanHunt> I'm good with that 19:32 < RLim> yeah 19:32 < JohannWeiss> One possible issue was the upto date issue. 19:33 < RLim> we can do an annual review maybe 19:33 < SeanHunt> Another good reason to keep a comprehensive doc; more eyes 19:33 < JohannWeiss> So if there's a constitutional change to our duties how does that get into the document? 19:33 < RLim> see who has left and possible hole that might have created 19:33 < SeanHunt> We can put "do a review of this doc periodically" in the doc ;) 19:33 < RLim> or after a major change or someone leaving 19:33 < JohannWeiss> I'm okay with that 19:34 < JohannWeiss> Then it's up to the current Exec to get to it when they have time 19:34 < JohannWeiss> Anyone care to chair this? 19:35 < JohannWeiss> And what's our idea of timeline? 19:35 < SeanHunt> I'll chair it. 19:35 < SeanHunt> If you guys are all right with i 19:35 < SeanHunt> *it 19:35 < JohannWeiss> Sure 19:35 < SeanHunt> it dovetails nicely into one of the other things I wanted to discuss 19:35 <@JMcleod> No prob with you chairing that :) 19:36 < SeanHunt> Actually, I have a more general question. 19:36 <@JMcleod> But good news is, my electricity survived this time! 19:36 < SeanHunt> Do people here object to google docs on principle? 19:36 <@JMcleod> (storm seems passed) 19:36 < JohannWeiss> Not I 19:36 < SeanHunt> JMcleod: which direction is it going? 19:36 <@JMcleod> Seemed like north-east to me 19:36 < SeanHunt> ok good 19:36 <@JMcleod> but sometimes perception is wrong :P 19:37 < SeanHunt> well it's looking a little cloudy here, am hoping the system doesn't make its way over :) 19:37 < SeanHunt> Anyone else want to help out? 19:37 < RLim> so what's the motion now? 19:37 <@JMcleod> I dont mind google docs 19:37 < SeanHunt> don't have one yet 19:37 <@JMcleod> But id have to get a gmail account I think 19:37 <@JMcleod> right? 19:37 < JohannWeiss> Let me just write it up. 19:37 < SeanHunt> JMcleod: You need a google account; it doesn't need gmail 19:38 <@JMcleod> my most used google account is used to troll youtube, gonna have to create a new one :S 19:38 < SeanHunt> JohannWeiss: please add a bit saying the committee can order people to write things up 19:38 < SeanHunt> JMcleod: haha 19:39 < RLim> or else what? :P 19:39 < SeanHunt> we still need to work on the or lese 19:39 < SeanHunt> but it should be clear that members are expected to listen to the committee if it says "write this up" 19:40 < JohannWeiss> Motion: A committee be formed to write a comprehensive document on what the duties and responsibilities of each of the administrative roles is. Sean Hunt will chair the committee and can appoint two members to it. They can request information of any officer of the party and that officer is expected to reply in a timely fashion. They will report back to the EB in one months time. 19:40 < JohannWeiss> Sounds reasonable? 19:40 < SeanHunt> any member 19:40 <@JMcleod> Not sure about reporting in a months time 19:41 < SeanHunt> A month is fine 19:41 < SeanHunt> We can report partially 19:41 <@JMcleod> True 19:41 < JohannWeiss> Yeah, it doesn't have to be done then 19:43 <@JMcleod> any member = what did you mean 19:43 < SeanHunt> not officer 19:43 < SeanHunt> member 19:43 < SeanHunt> there are members who are not officers who have important information 19:43 < JohannWeiss> Right 19:44 < JohannWeiss> Any member of the party though? I mean I don't expect just random members to respond unless they feel like it 19:44 < JohannWeiss> Is there a more general term meaning a member who is on a committee or in some administrative role? 19:45 < SeanHunt> you could go with "volunteer" perhaps 19:45 < JohannWeiss> k 19:45 < JohannWeiss> Motion: A committee be formed to write a comprehensive document on what the duties and responsibilities of each of the administrative roles is. Sean Hunt will chair the committee and can appoint two members to it. They can request information of any volunteering member of the party and that member is expected to reply in a timely fashion. They will report back to the EB in one months time. 19:46 <@CCitizen> Sounds good 19:47 <@JMcleod> If Sean agrees with this its good (since hes gonna chair it) 19:47 < SeanHunt> +1 19:47 < SeanHunt> brb reboot 19:48 < JohannWeiss> So unless I see some dispute I'm going to call this passed unanimously 19:48 <@CCitizen> So this is going to write a document to handle transfer of power 19:48 < JohannWeiss> To solve that issue 19:49 < JohannWeiss> The document is on responsibilities and duties of the staff 19:49 <@CCitizen> ok 19:50 < JohannWeiss> Seeing no objection the motion is passed 19:50 < JohannWeiss> I only had one more thing I wanted to talk about, not a motion proper. 19:50 < JohannWeiss> What are we doing about our financial situation? 19:51 < JohannWeiss> The report this year was very late, and our taxes didn't get filed on time 19:51 <@CCitizen> I know that Nuitari mailed Jake the financial reports 19:51 < JohannWeiss> Do we need to find a new accountant? 19:51 < JohannWeiss> Can we implement a more open system in which our financials are accessible on our site in real time? 19:51 <@CCitizen> and other documentation for transferring the account signing authority over and such... Would help if Jake was here for this since he has the most information 19:52 <@JMcleod> I also have the report but it cant be emailed, if jhowell was here he could probably point us towards a link or something 19:52 < JohannWeiss> Yes, but as the EB I'd like to start moving on it, even if that just means emailing the various people and asking them for info/action 19:53 <@JMcleod> I got the report from Nuitari and xfered it to jhowell so he could xfer it to Jake, dont know if that got done since everyone is always afk except on meeting days 19:54 < JohannWeiss> Well can you send an email to Jake and jhowell asking them if it happened? 19:54 < JohannWeiss> What about the acountant? 19:54 < SeanHunt> JohannWeiss: nitpick: not taxes 19:54 <@CCitizen> We (Me, Jake, Ric) need to get together to discuss the fund stuff... we got structure issues to think about 19:54 < JohannWeiss> Oh, what was it that was late then? 19:54 < SeanHunt> Our report to Elections Canada 19:54 < JohannWeiss> I see, sorry for the mixup 19:54 < SeanHunt> possibly the Fund's taxes were late 19:54 < SeanHunt> although I don't know if it has to file since it has no income AIUI 19:55 < SeanHunt> but our EC report was definitely late 19:55 < JohannWeiss> How much of our finances is under our control and how much is the fund? 19:55 < SeanHunt> (we got an extension though) 19:56 < SeanHunt> in terms of actually having money? The fund 19:56 < SeanHunt> the party itself is not a legal person 19:57 < JohannWeiss> Well what about accountants and how our financials are displayed, is that us or the fund? 19:57 <@CCitizen> The Fund handles all the money... and speaking of money theres some PDC stuff I wanted to bring up when we're done talking about this stuff. 19:57 < SeanHunt> JohannWeiss: both 19:57 < SeanHunt> JohannWeiss: We can perhaps use the time with the document to come up with suggestions 19:57 <@CCitizen> The fund handles all monetary stuff, we just tell the fund what to do basically. 19:58 < JohannWeiss> So then we should be seeking out a new accountant since our previous one isn't continueing. 19:59 <@CCitizen> Yeah... we should try and find a student that knows wtf they are doing 19:59 < RLim> I think a long time ago in a metting far far away, there was an action on EB to find an accountant 19:59 < RLim> *meeting 19:59 <@CCitizen> Bookkeeper actually... 19:59 < JohannWeiss> I recall that too 19:59 <@CCitizen> Accountants cost much more 20:00 < JohannWeiss> So bookkeeper 20:00 <@CCitizen> yeah 20:00 < JohannWeiss> Anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed? 20:00 <@JMcleod> That kinda talk is simply outta my league lol 20:01 <@CCitizen> which couuld be an accounting student since you dont get accounting accreditations until you finish your classes :) 20:01 < JohannWeiss> Our budget is low so probably looking for someone sympathetic to the party 20:03 <@CCitizen> Yeah... or someone willing to do it as a volunteer thing 20:04 < JohannWeiss> Frankly I don't know how to go about this, but we need to figure it out. 20:04 <@CCitizen> me either 20:05 < JohannWeiss> We don't need a motion for this week though, so how about we all try and figure out a direction to take and bring this up again in a week or two. 20:05 < JohannWeiss> I'll ask around and see, maybe we'll just do some posting on forums and at schools or something 20:05 < JohannWeiss> But for now we can table it 20:05 <@CCitizen> yeah 20:05 < JohannWeiss> So, any more business? 20:05 < SeanHunt> yes 20:06 <@JMcleod> what is jhowell's email? 20:06 <@CCitizen> Some yeah 20:06 < SeanHunt> While we're on the topic of administration 20:07 < SeanHunt> I'd like to ask that EB adopt the following 20:07 < SeanHunt> : 20:07 < SeanHunt> and/or PC actually 20:09 < SeanHunt> that any member of EB or PC may assign to a volunteer a PPCA email address, which will be of the form first.last@pirateparty.ca (with nicknames permitted), and if an individual is no longer volunteering for the Party, that their address can be revoked at least 2 months after they stopped volunteering by three members of the EB and PC after informing the member. Members who have PPCA email addresses will be expected to use them (or official ... 20:09 < SeanHunt> ... addresses such as president@) in their volunteer capacity. 20:10 < JohannWeiss> That sounds reasonable 20:10 < JohannWeiss> Any one else? 20:10 < JohannWeiss> have any thoughts or comments? 20:10 <@JMcleod> Well, president fowards to me, but I had no info on how to set up getting em directly 20:10 <@JMcleod> eg: is it smtp, imap? 20:10 < SeanHunt> don't care 20:10 < SeanHunt> so long as they exist 20:10 < SeanHunt> (everyone here already has them; they are forwarding addresses) 20:11 <@JMcleod> There is 0 info on that so I simply cant actually "use" it. 20:11 < SeanHunt> check your inbox 20:12 < SeanHunt> I told you I set that up already 20:13 <@JMcleod> Yeah, I know that, but it only forwards, so its not something I can use :) 20:14 < RLim> ^ yeah. 20:14 < JohannWeiss> Well the functioning of your email is something you two can work on, what about the actual motion? 20:14 < RLim> Plus it tend to land in spam since that's something a spam will do if you use another e-mail account to set reply to another 20:14 < RLim> I thnik 20:14 < RLim> (think 20:15 < SeanHunt> email doesn't work like that 20:15 <@CCitizen> Sounds reasonable though it would be nice if we could access emails as actual emails like an email server would 20:15 <@JMcleod> I can also put it in the reply-to field, but that will get flagged as spam 20:15 < SeanHunt> In theory you can 20:15 < RLim> yeah +++ 20:15 < SeanHunt> not the reply-to field 20:15 < SeanHunt> the from: field 20:15 < SeanHunt> most clients will let you do this 20:15 < RLim> not through another e-mail account 20:15 < RLim> that's like spamming 20:15 < SeanHunt> there is no "thrrough another e-mail account" 20:15 < RLim> we can discuss that with IT. 20:15 < SeanHunt> email doesn't work that way 20:15 < SeanHunt> you say that your email is from an address, you hand it to a server 20:15 < RLim> because we don't have full access to that e-mail 20:15 < SeanHunt> there is no verification 20:16 < SeanHunt> you do. it is the same as any other 20:16 <@JMcleod> actually, some servers do verify 20:16 < SeanHunt> SMTP and IMAP are only receiving protocls 20:16 < SeanHunt> *protocols 20:16 < RLim> it will show it arriving from google which some spam filter does not like 20:16 < SeanHunt> err 20:16 < SeanHunt> s/SMTP/POP3/ 20:16 < RLim> at work it causes alert saying different ip or something like that 20:16 < SeanHunt> I believe we are already running an SMTP server 20:16 <@CCitizen> Plus I'd like official party business to be kept within our servers when possible since we can make sure they are only accessed by HTTPS or something that way :) 20:16 < SeanHunt> so you can send through that server 20:17 < SeanHunt> CCitizen: I would object to a requirement that email be required to be party-hosted 20:17 < RLim> pirateparty server? 20:17 < SeanHunt> I would not check it regularly 20:17 <@CCitizen> well isnt there any secure email protocol we could use 20:17 < RLim> why would you object to that? 20:18 < RLim> it's a pirate party address? 20:18 <@JMcleod> eg, if i sent with my webserver, it would always land in spam, but through google it wouldnt. So obviously, there is a check somewhere 20:18 < SeanHunt> RLim: Because I have one inbox 20:18 < SeanHunt> JMcleod: GMail can be configured to use other outgoing mailservers 20:18 < SeanHunt> as can most clients 20:18 < RLim> I guess this discussion could go on and on. I want to go out and enhjoy what's left of the long weekend 20:18 < SeanHunt> haha 20:18 < RLim> *enjoy 20:18 < RLim> :) 20:18 < JohannWeiss> Yeah, me too 20:18 < SeanHunt> RLim: I get push notification of all my email, and it's nice. I'm not setting up another inbox across multiple devices 20:19 <@JMcleod> It wasnt gmail, it was tested with a hotmail, as if I was a client using the site. 20:19 <@CCitizen> Anyways yeah also I remember we had a motion on the PC a while back about allowing people to use pseudonyms for party stuff. Doesnt really apply to us since our names have to be available but it might be more important to volunteers 20:20 <@JMcleod> register with hotmail acc. - send email from info@website.com from gmail, it worked. Sent by website.com, the same wording/from/to etc., it was spam. 20:20 <@CCitizen> Is your webserver operating as an open relay 20:20 <@CCitizen> thats a big big big flag for spam :) 20:20 < SeanHunt> The motion about pseudonyms was specifically for internal communication iirc 20:21 <@CCitizen> ah 20:21 < RLim> anything more? 20:21 < RLim> :P 20:21 <@CCitizen> Yeah 20:21 <@JMcleod> well we are still on Sean's motion no? 20:21 <@CCitizen> right well I'm fine with it as is 20:22 < RLim> yeah no objection 20:22 <@JMcleod> Well I dont understand the last sentence still 20:23 < SeanHunt> It's intended to mean that you shouldn't do something like "Hi I'm the president I can be reached at foo@bar.com" 20:23 < SeanHunt> if you're doing PPCA stuff, use the PPCA address 20:23 <@CCitizen> thats reasonable 20:24 <@JMcleod> oh, that yeah, but replying as president@pirateparty.ca ... nope 20:24 <@JMcleod> because I cant set it up as an account 20:24 <@JMcleod> since its a forward 20:24 < SeanHunt> do you use gmail? 20:24 <@JMcleod> Thats why I need the connection info 20:24 <@JMcleod> no. 20:24 < SeanHunt> Ok. 20:24 <@JMcleod> I use thunderbird on my PC 20:24 < RLim> Is gmail the only one that works 20:24 < SeanHunt> No. 20:24 < RLim> others banned it 20:24 < SeanHunt> Talk to IT about it 20:25 < SeanHunt> it is very technically possible, and if you can't send as president@pirateparty.ca, that's a problem 20:25 < RLim> I still going to be pushing for full access but that's a debate for another day 20:25 < SeanHunt> RLim: full access to what? 20:25 <@JMcleod> the problem is I select the replyto from a dropdown. A dropdown that comes from an account 20:26 < SeanHunt> this is besides the point 20:26 < SeanHunt> can we please vote? 20:26 <@JMcleod> And an account that was never given to me. 20:26 < RLim> e-mail webmail 20:26 < RLim> aye 20:26 <@JMcleod> However, if I vote yes... then IT will have to make it work :P 20:26 <@JMcleod> JohannWeiss call to vote on Sean's motion? 20:26 < SeanHunt> we've wasted >15 minutes discussing tech support 20:26 < JohannWeiss> Alright is their any objections to the motion? 20:26 < JohannWeiss> If there's no objections, there is no vote 20:26 < SeanHunt> none from PC either 20:27 <@CCitizen> This works pretty good 20:27 <@CCitizen> skipping voting unless people complain hehe 20:27 < JohannWeiss> Alright, seeing no objection, the motion is passed unanimously 20:28 < JohannWeiss> Any more motions? 20:28 < RLim> none from me 20:28 <@JMcleod> CCitizen has something I think 20:28 < SeanHunt> shawnvulliez: ping 20:28 <@CCitizen> Yeah 20:30 < JohannWeiss> Go ahead. 20:30 <@CCitizen> I have some business regarding the PDC. As you all know Johann has found a very good candidate for building PirateBoxes with. The TP-LINK TL-WR703N is a wireless '3G' router (basically a router with a USB port). He's successfully turned it into a PirateBox. I've done some research and found we can get some fairly good prices on these if we order in bulk quantities. Specifically I've found this website ( http://www.volumerates.com/product/genuine 20:30 <@CCitizen> -tp-link-tl-wr703n-150m-11n-mini-wifi-wireless-router-for-instant-wifi-connection-99273# ) which offers almost $4 off the per unit price if you order in quanities of like 3-10 units). 20:30 <@CCitizen> ack the link got chopped 20:30 <@CCitizen> http://www.volumerates.com/product/genuine-tp-link-tl-wr703n-150m-11n-mini-wifi-wireless-router-for-instant-wifi-connection-99273# 20:33 < JohannWeiss> I would suggest that we wait until I can get some proper testing of the range and strength of connection before we order any. 20:34 < JohannWeiss> It may be a great portable Piratebox cause of it's size, but if the range and speed are crap then it wont work very well as a permanent Piratebox (like in a cafe). 20:34 < JohannWeiss> We may be able to find some that cost the same, but aren't compressed and have a better range/speed. 20:34 * SeanHunt still doesn't get the point of pirateboxes (please do not elaborate here and waste more time) 20:34 < JohannWeiss> I know 20:34 <@CCitizen> Well it's sorta a status update then... Something I hope we can include in the future is if the person owns an Ostra.ca VPN account they'll be able to import the keys and such and have all traffic ethrough the piratebox to the internet secured by way of VPN 20:36 < RLim> ok 20:36 < JohannWeiss> So you're not suggesting we order them yet, just reporting on the development 20:36 <@CCitizen> I dont think the range would be big but then most cafes arent huge to begin with 20:36 <@CCitizen> Yeah 20:36 < JohannWeiss> and that we may want to order some in bulk soon 20:36 <@CCitizen> and potential cost in future 20:37 < JohannWeiss> Cool 20:37 <@CCitizen> Perhaps we could dual purpose them to work as a 3g router like theyre intended to be so people can have their VPN security on the go (like our VPN) 20:38 < SeanHunt> shawnvulliez: ping again 20:38 <@CCitizen> but with only one USB port it'd be an either-or situation unless someone picked up a usb hub of some sort 20:39 < JohannWeiss> Alright, I've got to get some dinner, is there any other pressing business that needs to be attended to? 20:39 <@JMcleod> ok well I just emailed IT again to get the info for direct access to email account :) hopefully they will get that soon 20:40 <@shawnvulliez> I am here, I just went for a drink of water. This room is uncomfortably hot. 20:40 < SeanHunt> cool 20:40 < RLim> jhowell said they need assistance on setting something like that up 20:40 < SeanHunt> depends on what you need 20:40 < RLim> and Jake might be switching us to another e-mail? 20:40 < SeanHunt> let's have this conversation /offline/ please 20:40 < SeanHunt> (as in, not in this meeting) 20:41 < JohannWeiss> So no more business? 20:41 < SeanHunt> shawnvulliez: my email 20:41 <@CCitizen> I was gonna say sure let me hop on a plane and goto Vancouver :D 20:41 < SeanHunt> I have PC stuff 20:41 < SeanHunt> but that's it 20:41 < JohannWeiss> Once I leave we'll lose quorum, so I may as well adjourn the exec half 20:41 < RLim> ok thanks 20:41 <@shawnvulliez> You want to discuss public conduct of representatives? 20:41 < SeanHunt> also, JohannWeiss and RLim, do you want to be on the committee? 20:41 < SeanHunt> shawnvulliez: no 20:41 < RLim> for? 20:41 < SeanHunt> shawnvulliez: it was never about representatives 20:42 < SeanHunt> I would have been pissed rather than annoyed had it been a representative 20:42 < SeanHunt> RLim: the structure/governance doc 20:42 < RLim> ok 20:42 < RLim> sure 20:43 < JohannWeiss> SeanHunt: I'm worried I wont be able to make enough time for the committee. I can try, but if there's someone else interested who can make the committment, then you should go with them 20:43 < JohannWeiss> Otherwise, yes, I'll join 20:43 < SeanHunt> JohannWeiss: ok, no problem then 20:43 < SeanHunt> RLim: ok, expect an email 20:43 < SeanHunt> shawnvulliez: The problem is that it is members as well 20:43 < JohannWeiss> Send me an email if you want me to join 20:43 < SeanHunt> we have to establish reasonable standards of decorum 20:43 < JohannWeiss> I'm leaving now 20:43 < RLim> EB free to go?> 20:43 <@CCitizen> Anyone but me I'm stuck on too many committees already 20:43 < JohannWeiss> So I motion to adjourn the exec meeting 20:43 < JohannWeiss> vote: 20:43 < JohannWeiss> aye 20:43 <@CCitizen> aye 20:44 < RLim> aye 20:44 <@JMcleod> aye 20:44 < JohannWeiss> Passed 20:44 <@shawnvulliez> aye 20:44 < JohannWeiss> Meetign adjourned 20:44 < JohannWeiss> Have a good night folkds



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