EB 2012-03-12 transcript

 NOTE: Log times are in Central Time

20:40 <~scshunt> Ok, then I'll call this meeting to order 20:40 <~scshunt> Ric, do you have minutes from previous meetings? 20:40 < RLim> yes,we have two minutes to approve. 20:40 <~scshunt> links? 20:40 < RLim> http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/EB_2012-02-27_minutes 20:41 -!- redacted [x@ppca-641DE2B5.is.a.tor.exit.server.torland.me] has joined #exec 20:44 <~scshunt> uh, waiting on the second link, any corrections to the first set? 20:44 The Social Media board movement and the one following it are both out of our jurisdiction, because they involve communications outside the party 20:44 <~scshunt> svulliez: is that a point of order? 20:44 <~scshunt> I guess I'll take it as on 20:44 <~scshunt> *as one 20:44 You tell me, I believe that the social media motion was ratified and re-passed at the Political Board meeting. 20:45 <~scshunt> The minutes reflect the accurate record of what happened, so they should not be edited 20:45 I'd rather not waste a bunch of time or nothin', but I think the second one has to be confirmed by the PC 20:45 <~scshunt> However, I will with the point of order that the Social Media Board and official communication motions were out of order due to being outside the EB's mandate. 20:46 <~scshunt> It's well taken, the motions are null and void 20:46 Moving forward. 20:46 Do we have an agenda? 20:46 <~scshunt> Any other corrections? 20:46 <~scshunt> No, sorry, this week's been rather horrible for me :( 20:47 That's quite alright. 20:47 <~scshunt> http://piratepad.ca/YDU5xxDVx6 to list business to help us get through faster? 20:47 I believe we also passed that people can internally self-identify how they would like 20:47 < RLim> sorry was afk 20:47 < RLim> where are we? 20:47 reviewing minutes, building an agenda 20:48 <~scshunt> RLim: Do you have the second set of minutes, as well as a transcript from the 27th meeting? 20:48 <~scshunt> svulliez raised a good point about the minutes that I'd forgotten 20:48 < RLim> http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/EB_2012-03-05_minutes 20:48 < RLim> I have the transcript but unedited 20:48 <~scshunt> Ok, can you please link that to me? 20:48 <~scshunt> In the meanwhile we can look over the other set 20:49 < CCitizen> Theres no capitals in the middle of my last name for reference :) 20:49 <~scshunt> Ok 20:50 < RLim> http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/EB_2012-02-27_transcript 20:50 <~scshunt> Any other corrections to the March 5 minutes? 20:51 < RLim> CCitizen? 20:51 <~scshunt> RLim: I fixed the minutes 20:52 <~scshunt> svulliez: Looking it over, we amended that motion away from the original that dealt with internal communication 20:52 <~scshunt> So the minutes are correct? 20:52 <~scshunt> I'll declare the set from March 5 to be approved, since no one has suggested any corrections other than CCitizen's name. 20:53 haha, let's re-pass that today please. I think it's a good policy. 20:53 < RLim> and here's the March 5th transcript also unedited 20:53 < RLim> http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/EB_2012-03-05_transcript 20:53 < RLim> thanks 20:54 < JMcleod> all looks good to me 20:54 <~scshunt> Ok, I will declare the set from February 27 approved. 20:56 <~scshunt> I move that the Party reimburse Ric Lim for his purchase of RONR IB, and that if any other member of Political Council or Executive Board purchases the book within the next two weeks, the Party shall reimburse them up to a maximum of $10 each. 20:57 <~scshunt> Any debate on this motion? 20:57 < JMcleod> well 20:57 < JMcleod> what is RONR IB 20:57 <~scshunt> Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised in Brief 20:58 <~scshunt> http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0306820196/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d5_g14_i1?pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0S29X0957XJJ5YGQ3BBS&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463383511&pf_rd_i=915398 20:58 < JMcleod> Ahh ok, the IB part messed me up :P 20:58 move to vote. Sounds good to me. 20:59 <~scshunt> Any objection to the motion as proposed? 20:59 < JMcleod> well 20:59 <~scshunt> JMcleod: Ok, then I'll have to put Shawn's motion for the previous question 21:00 <~scshunt> Shwan has moved the previous question on the motion to reimburse members; all in favor of ending debate and voting immediately on the main motion say aye; all opposed say nay. 21:00 <~scshunt> *Shawn 21:00 < JMcleod> nay 21:00 <~scshunt> nay 21:01 <~scshunt> The motion fails 21:01 <~scshunt> JMcleod: ? 21:01 -!- Irssi: #exec: Total of 10 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 10 normal] 21:01 < JMcleod> is that motion only for that specific book? 21:01 <~scshunt> Yes. 21:01 < JMcleod> for 1 copy of that book I mean, 21:02 <~scshunt> my interpretation would be yes, but I don't have any issue making it clearer 21:02 < JMcleod> the 10$ each could mean for each purchase, instead of each member :) 21:02 <~scshunt> how about "... shall reimburse them each up to a maximum of $10 for a single copy"? 21:03 < JMcleod> so i move to add member of Political Council or Executive Board - at the end, for clarity 21:03 < JMcleod> wait 21:03 < JMcleod> yeah 21:03 <~scshunt> ok. Any objections to amending the motion to read "... shall reimburse them each up to a maximum of $10 for a single copy" and adopting the motion? 21:04 nope, let's make it happen. 21:04 <~scshunt> Seeing no objection, it is decided that the Party reimburse Ric Lim for his purchase of RONR IB, and that if any other member of Political Council or Executive Board purchases the book within the next two weeks, the Party shall reimburse them each up to a maximum of $10 for a single copy. 21:04 <~scshunt> Next item 21:05 -!- sheps [shep@DE0DAE8A.B9C8A4B0.4D419D3C.IP] has joined #exec 21:05 <~scshunt> anyone? 21:05 project funds, and the project council looked good to me 21:06 <~scshunt> Okay, I actually have a comment there 21:06 has everyone seen the proposal? I assume that it was passed around a bit? 21:06 <~scshunt> http://piratepad.ca/ISvd8sr10b for anyone not here 21:06 http://piratepad.ca/ISvd8sr10b 21:06 <~scshunt> I'd rather see this established by a GM so that it is at the Party level, and so that the chair gets a seat here 21:07 <~scshunt> notice for the next GM needs to go out soon 21:08 who has access to the mailing list system? We should also call for volunteers for the march 24th rallies, and bring people up to date on what we are doing 21:08 < JMcleod> Yeah, thatd be great to propose at the next GM 21:08 < RLim> I do 21:08 < RLim> I'll include that in the meeting notice 21:08 <~scshunt> Establishing a new standing committee requires notice, so we would need to work out the wording. 21:09 <~scshunt> and then it could go out with the meeting notice 21:09 Do you want to piece something together on a piratepad with me tonight, Ric? 21:09 < RLim> sure 21:09 hunt, maybe you could help with making sure the wording is right on the notice. 21:09 <~scshunt> yeah 21:09 <~scshunt> will do 21:10 What else do we need to give notice to move at a GM? 21:10 <~scshunt> Constitutional amendments 21:10 <~scshunt> A few other motions are harder to adopt without notice 21:10 <~scshunt> such as motions to rescind or amend previous actions (either of the party or of any body like the EB or the PC) 21:11 How specific do you have to be with what to give notice for on constitutional amendments? 21:11 Because I know that people have been working on things they would like to pass to help ease the bureaucracy 21:11 < JMcleod> What the amendments will be :) 21:12 <~scshunt> You don't need specific wording if the notice is very very clear 21:13 If the notice is clear that... there will be constitutional amendments proposed? 21:13 <~scshunt> And for constitutional amendments only, the notice has to be actually delivered at the previous meeting due to poor thinking on my part 21:13 < JMcleod> However, if its unclear when proposing the amendment, you risk having a motion to give people a month to review it (until next GM) 21:13 <~scshunt> svulliez: No, what they will be 21:13 woah wait what 21:13 <~scshunt> svulliez: You can also give notice of a general revision, which is exactly what it sounds 21:13 we need to give a one month notice to pass a constitutional amendment? 21:13 <~scshunt> Yes. 21:14 <~scshunt> I can't actually remember if this was deliberate or not 21:14 < JMcleod> which point is that? 21:14 <~scshunt> Do you have specific issues you want to see resolved quickly? We may be able to patch around them 21:14 < JMcleod> Yes there are. 21:14 <~scshunt> JMcleod: "This document may be amended, including to dissolve the Party or merge it with another party, 21:14 <~scshunt> only by a three-quarters vote or by a vote of a majority of all the membership, taken by all-party 21:14 <~scshunt> ballot, with notice provided at the previous general meeting. 21:14 <~scshunt> " 21:14 < JMcleod> Good 21:15 Hm. Well. I think that is probably something worth hulking out over because it's absolutely insane. Wow. 21:15 <~scshunt> JMcleod: What is good? 21:15 -!- redacted is now known as BrigetteDePape 21:15 < JMcleod> call a special GM the week after the next GM 21:15 < JMcleod> The way its worded :) 21:15 <~scshunt> Ah, yes, that could be done 21:15 -!- BrigetteDePape [x@ppca-641DE2B5.is.a.tor.exit.server.torland.me] has left #exec [Leaving] 21:15 I actually felt my heart rate change when I read that, because it's an absolutely terrible policy and it's a great example of how the party can be slowed to a crawl by needless bureaucracy 21:16 <~scshunt> svulliez: yes, there are a number of small fixes that should all go out for vote once 21:16 <~scshunt> yeah 21:16 <~scshunt> agreed, there 21:16 <~scshunt> 22:14:21 <~scshunt> Do you have specific issues you want to see resolved quickly? We may be able to patch around them 21:16 How do you mean, "patch around" ? 21:16 <~scshunt> work around them 21:17 <~scshunt> like the division of power issue can be worked around by delegation 21:18 <~scshunt> Without objection, CCitizen would like to talk 21:19 no objection will be found 21:20 < CCitizen> Anyways when we were reading the Constitution and fixing it we found that all it would take is 15 people to join the party to show up to a General Meeting to make a motion to dissolve it and allocatethe funds to themselves... Thats probably the most obscene thing that our constitution at the moment allows for 21:20 <~scshunt> No, a motion to dissolve is a motion to rescind the constitution so it requires the same vote 21:20 < CCitizen> But it's one of the things being worked on by the Constitutional Refinement Committee that I'm helping out with (Johann is the leader/chair on that project) 21:21 <~scshunt> the rule regarding a motion to dissolve is an extra requirement 21:22 <~scshunt> I'll look at that later, let's move on 21:22 <~scshunt> Any other business? 21:22 This constitution is a farce. It's destroying us. The entire point of the rebuilding process was to make it easier to change the constitution. It makes me really sad to think that we're going to dick around for another month 21:23 <~scshunt> svulliez: Like I said, if you can point out specific issues, we can probably work around them. Let's not complain about the situation, complaining generally doesn't make things better 21:23 < JMcleod> what is that constitutional committee? how is it being reworked 21:23 http://pr.piratepad.ca/126 21:24 <~scshunt> password-protected 21:24 < JMcleod> pm pass 21:24 it's 'exec' 21:25 <~scshunt> Anyway, we can deal with that later; that is not the purpose of this meeting 21:25 <~scshunt> If there is no more business anyone wants to bring forward, I'm going to adjourn. 21:25 The purposes of this meeting cannot be fufilled. 21:26 <~scshunt> ... 21:26 one sec 21:27 I would like to motion that we as a temporary measure suspend the parts of the constitution that are deemed to be mutually agreed upon by the constitutional committee as impeding progress for the sake of maintaining effective meetings in the interim, while explicitly telling the membership what we have done, and giving them the ability to reject our modifications and all of the things we passed in between 21:27 at a GM 21:28 <~scshunt> That motion is out of order; the constitution does not provide for its suspension. 21:28 < RLim> I don't think we can suspend parts of a constitution 21:29 I believe that in the interests of minimizing bureaucracy and coming to action as a group, the membership will agree that what we did was in the interests of the party as a whole. 21:29 < JMcleod> The point of a constitution is that you cant just suspend parts of it as you please 21:29 yes, I understand that, but usually constitutions aren't completely insane either. 21:29 Perhaps it can be reworded a different way. But complying with the constitution to the letter is going to kill a quarter of our term in office 21:29 we;re here for 9 months 21:29 <~scshunt> svulliez: What is it that you want to do? 21:30 < RLim> what part is so urgent that needs to be suspended? 21:30 < CCitizen> Isnt it within the constitution for the Board to make a special rule of order that allows them to ignore the rules of order? 21:30 <~scshunt> We can suspend rules of order, yes 21:30 <~scshunt> But most of the constitution is not rules of order. 21:31 I would like to establish that no part of the constitution is intended to prevent action from happening between IRC meetings, so we may begin on the "doing" side of the projects now, and worry about the "talking about" those projects later 21:31 < JMcleod> planning > doing 21:32 Perhaps we could pass something to get the organizational structure of the proposed projects committee going before it's passed a GM, just to have not wasted this entire week, you know 21:32 <~scshunt> We can delegate all our power to anyone, so nothing stops us from keeping things to meetings. 21:32 <~scshunt> err 21:32 <~scshunt> other way around 21:32 <~scshunt> nothing requires us to keep things to meetings 21:32 <~scshunt> but for the moment, that power isn't delegated, so we are limited to meetings 21:33 < JMcleod> how many of those doing projects ever managed one before? 21:33 <~scshunt> I think it's just a fact of the immaturity of the power structure that we aren't sure what we are comfortable delegating 21:34 I think it's more accurately a fact of the ill-defined nature of the power structure 21:34 <~scshunt> Other than the PC/EB split, it's well-defined 21:34 <~scshunt> but as for funding, for instance 21:34 <~scshunt> you're right, nothing should be stopping someone like drew from getting his money back 21:34 <~scshunt> but I wasn't even aware, except through you, that he had spent any 21:34 and nothing should be stopping ccitizen from getting into action either 21:35 <~scshunt> Not if he thinks that the expense won't have much trouble getting approved 21:35 Ah, I have a motion also 21:35 <~scshunt> But it also makes absolutely no sense ot not have a gatekeeper somewhere on the money 21:35 <~scshunt> *to not 21:35 < CCitizen> I'm more focused on the PirateBox/MeshNet project myself... Although I do want to get the Sneakernet project moving thats why I put myself down as leader of that project. 21:36 I'd like to be reimbursed for purchasing encrypteverything.ca if possible 21:36 <~scshunt> I mean, ideally I think we should evaluate each project as a Party project 21:36 <~scshunt> svulliez: Didn't the PC pass a motion to reimburse you? 21:36 ???? 21:36 How could they? 21:36 <~scshunt> svulliez: We delegated them the power to pick a domain 21:36 Exec covers finances 21:37 <~scshunt> Yes, and then we said "PC, pick a domain name" 21:37 <~scshunt> "we'll buy" 21:37 Oh, well they agreed on the domain, but I thought we had to approve the actual "heres your money dude" of it 21:37 < JMcleod> nah 21:37 <~scshunt> If the PC picked the domain officially, we already approved the money 21:37 -!- drew [F4952D1DC8@ppca-C9341201.riws.ualberta.ca] has quit [Ping timeout] 21:37 <~scshunt> or at least, I thought we did 21:37 < JMcleod> you need to provide a bill to get ur money back though, we already pre-approved the spending 21:37 <~scshunt> it's not in the minutes 21:38 who should I send the details of the billing to as proof? 21:38 <~scshunt> ah, yes 21:38 < CCitizen> You know... perhaps the Executive Board can give the Political Board a small budget so that they can do things like buy a domain name if needed? 21:38 <~scshunt> it's a mistake in the minutes 21:38 <~scshunt> svulliez: Talk to Nuit 21:38 <~scshunt> svulliez: do you have the pad from last meeting? 21:38 <~scshunt> (PC) 21:39 < JMcleod> CCitizen - we would need financial reports for 2011 before doing something like that. 21:39 not at my fingertips 21:39 when are the financial reports coming? this is the third week of "we need the financial reports" 21:39 < RLim> which pad? 21:40 <~scshunt> Nuitari: ping 21:40 <~scshunt> RLim: the PC pad 21:40 <~scshunt> PC holds its meetings on piratepads 21:41 <~scshunt> and they dislike the idea of keeping minutes on the wiki 21:41 <~scshunt> I move to amend last week's minutes by inserting "By unanimous consent, it was agreed "that the Board approve the purchase of a .ca domain name costing no more than 20$, chosen by the PC, for the Operation Electronic Leviathan project."" before the final paragraph.~ 21:41 <~scshunt> any objections? 21:41 no 21:41 -!- drew [F4952D1DC8@ppca-C9341201.riws.ualberta.ca] has joined #exec 21:42 I just want to point out, as a side note, that reasonable, regular people from the public can not be expected to participate in a process like this, and that is a really really bad thing for the pirate party 21:42 < Nuitari> just tell me which domains to buy whenever it's decided 21:42 < RLim> would the pad go on wiki though for people who wants to check it out? 21:42 <~scshunt> Nuitari: svulliez's bought it already 21:43 <~scshunt> Seeing none, the motion is adopted; I moved to amend the motion adopted with regards to a domain name by substituting "that the Party reimburse Shawn Vulliez for the purchase of encrypteverything.ca." 21:43 < Nuitari> ugh 21:43 <~scshunt> Any objection? 21:43 < Nuitari> svulliez: bad 21:43 < Nuitari> you can't do that without consulting the agent first 21:44 Well, to be fair, not really kept in the loop with the agent 21:44 I'll just keep the domain if it's a problem 21:44 I just wanted to see something actually done 21:44 < JMcleod> just resell the domain to the party svulliez 21:45 < JMcleod> with invoice :) 21:45 < Nuitari> it's not a problem but the party has its accounts and there are rules on how the money can flow 21:45 I will sell it to the party then, for a real reasonable price 21:45 in shawn's house of domains 21:46 < RLim> scshunt, should I edit the minutes with your motion? 21:46 < RLim> or is that a motion adopted in this meeting? 21:46 <~scshunt> RLim: The old minutes should be amended but it should be noted it was an insertion made; these minutes should just reflect the motion I adopted 21:46 <~scshunt> Ok, I'm going to object to my own motion here 21:46 hahah 21:47 <~scshunt> Nuitari: I don't see anything in the CEA saying that it has to be approved by the agent first 21:47 <~scshunt> oh wait, nevermind, I do 21:48 < Nuitari> all spending has to be approved by the agent unless a petty cash letter has been written to the agent to authorised persons 21:48 <~scshunt> I need to familiarize myself with the provisions there 21:48 < RLim> Are we allowed to print flyers when it is not election time. To be used locally. Say I don't ask for reimbursement 21:48 < RLim> ? 21:48 <~scshunt> that's fine 21:48 <~scshunt> I think 21:49 < Nuitari> yes it is 21:49 < Nuitari> well 21:49 < Nuitari> yes and no 21:49 < Nuitari> it's complicated 21:49 <~scshunt> svulliez: did you purchase it in your name or the Party's 21:49 <~scshunt> ? 21:49 < Nuitari> it's fine until you decide to be a candidate, then the spending limits and contribution apply retroactively from the time you decided to become a candidate 21:50 <~scshunt> Nuitari: Also, ETA on the financial report? 21:50 < RLim> ok 21:51 < Nuitari> scshunt: this month 21:51 <~scshunt> Nuitari: When? 21:51 < Nuitari> not sure, wife is sleeping so I can't ask her n 21:52 <~scshunt> Nuitari: only retroactively to the start of the campaign period, I think? 21:52 < Nuitari> no since the person decided to become a candidate 21:52 < Nuitari> it's a bitch of a rule 21:52 <~scshunt> really? where is that? 21:52 <~scshunt> (in the act) 21:53 <~scshunt> 407(1) clearly says "in the election period" 21:53 < Nuitari> not sure, it's in the candidate handbook 21:53 <~scshunt> anyway, getting off topic 21:53 <~scshunt> svulliez: did you purchase it in your name or the Party's? 21:53 < Nuitari> it would be easier to reimburse flyers that people print if those persons are planning to become candidates 21:54 < JMcleod> since the person decided to become, or since the party agreed to that person becoming a candidate representing your party. Also, if that person decides he will be candidate today, since we arent in an election period, and therefor cannot be a candidate, does it count? 21:55 <~scshunt> Nuitari: Does it take anything for me to become a registered agent other than us appointing me? 21:56 <~scshunt> (of course we inform EC) 21:56 < Nuitari> also have to determine in which capacity and what you are allowed to do 21:56 <~scshunt> ok, good 21:56 <~scshunt> Any objection to me withdrawing my motion? I cannot determine how to phrase it properly without svulliez 21:57 < RLim> none here 21:57 < Nuitari> JMcleod: since someone wins a nomination contest by the party (eg any contest where the party selects someone as a candidate for a riding) 21:57 <~scshunt> Ok, motion withdrawn (don't record withdrawn motions on the minutes) 21:57 <~scshunt> oh 21:57 <~scshunt> anyway 21:57 < RLim> yeah 21:58 < Nuitari> so it would make sense to delay appointing a candidate to a riding until some time before the election (like 3 months) 21:58 <~scshunt> I move to appoint myself and Jack McLeod as registered agents of the party will full authority. 22:00 <~scshunt> Is there any debate on this motion? 22:00 no 22:00 < RLim> nope 22:00 < Nuitari> I'd prefer that you take the time to read the rules and the agent handbook provided by EC 22:01 <~scshunt> Nuitari: briefly read the CEA just now, will read it in more detail later. We'll have to sort reimbursement mechanisms out, but we would have had to anyway. 22:01 < RLim> reimbursement is pretty much they ask you and you say ok or not. right? 22:01 <~scshunt> I think this is important so that Jack or I can approve petty expenses that we approve here, since you aren't always here 22:02 < Nuitari> have to ask before the expense 22:02 < RLim> yep 22:02 <~scshunt> RLim: The act requires an agent to approve a petty expense before it is made 22:02 < Nuitari> or have to delegate petty cash (like Shawn's proposal last week) 22:02 < RLim> that should make things easier. But it might be good to remind everyone and PC that's how it should be 22:02 <~scshunt> the only actual proactive duty, as far as I see, is that we also have to deal with expense claims 22:02 < RLim> delegate to someone who is not an agent? 22:02 <~scshunt> we get powers to do other things, like contributions, as well 22:03 < RLim> oh yeah you can solicit 22:03 < Nuitari> RLim: yes 22:04 <~scshunt> the trick is that only an agent can delegate petty cash 22:04 <~scshunt> so we here are powerless without an agent to actually do it 22:04 <~scshunt> (the agents are bound to agree with us, but that step exists) 22:04 < RLim> yeah 22:05 < Nuitari> scshunt: you'll have to define things a bit more then all powers... 22:05 < JMcleod> yeah and we have 30 days to alert EC of what was defined 22:05 <~scshunt> Nuitari: I don't see why 22:05 <~scshunt> we can add terms and conditions if we want 22:05 <~scshunt> but we don't have to 22:06 <~scshunt> JMcleod: ping 22:06 < JMcleod> pong 22:06 <~scshunt> JMcleod: You're willing to accept the responsibility? 22:07 < JMcleod> scshunt: sure :) 22:07 <~scshunt> ok 22:07 < Nuitari> scshunt: it's usually good to define the rules of money spending / receiving so that we're all on the same page 22:07 <~scshunt> Nuitari: Whatever the EB says 22:07 <~scshunt> that's the overarching rule 22:07 -!- TeamColtra [coltra@ppca-3DD15894.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #exec 22:07 <~scshunt> it applies to you too 22:07 <~scshunt> well not you but the fund 22:07 < JMcleod> however 22:08 < TeamColtra> I am in the right place? 22:08 < Nuitari> scshunt: no, the fund is the chief agent 22:08 < JMcleod> If one becomes candidate, he cannot be an agent 22:08 < Nuitari> JMcleod: correct 22:08 <~scshunt> Nuitari: yes, exxactly 22:08 <~scshunt> That's why I corrected myself 22:09 < RLim> yes TeamColtra 22:10 <~scshunt> I don't see anything saying an agent can't be a candidate 22:10 < JMcleod> no 22:10 < JMcleod> a candidate cannot be an agent 22:10 <~scshunt> oh wait, nevermind 22:10 <~scshunt> yeah I see it 22:10 < JMcleod> so if you become candidate, you must give up being an agent 22:10 < Nuitari> http://www.elections.ca/content.aspx?section=pol&document=page2index&dir=pol/man/ec20229&lang=e#_Toc73148578 22:10 <~scshunt> that's fine 22:11 <~scshunt> we can deal with that later 22:11 -!- drew [F4952D1DC8@ppca-C9341201.riws.ualberta.ca] has quit [Ping timeout] 22:11 -!- drew [F4952D1DC8@ppca-C9341201.riws.ualberta.ca] has joined #exec 22:11 <~scshunt> candidacy won't happen for years 22:11 <~scshunt> in all likelihood 22:12 < JMcleod> precisely 22:12 <~scshunt> ok :) 22:12 <~scshunt> Any more debate? 22:12 < CCitizen> 2015 unless you count 77 potential by-elections 22:13 <~scshunt> Seeing none, the motion will be put to a vote. 22:13 <~scshunt> The question is on the motion to appoint Sean Hunt and Jack McLoed as registered agents of the Party. All in favor, say aye, all opposed, say nay 22:13 <~scshunt> aye 22:13 < RLim> aye 22:14 < RLim> JMcleod, svulliez, TeamColtra ping 22:14 < JMcleod> aye 22:14 < TeamColtra> abstain 22:14 -!- drew [F4952D1DC8@ppca-C9341201.riws.ualberta.ca] has quit [Ping timeout] 22:14 < TeamColtra> oh I can't under RRoO can I? 22:14 <~scshunt> you can just not say anything, it's equivalent 22:15 < TeamColtra> :) Okay... well now I can't not say anything because I have :P 22:15 <~scshunt> The ayes have it and the motion is adopted, the Leader shall inform Elections Canada 22:15 < RLim> Did we submit the leaders consent to EC? 22:15 < TeamColtra> (it wasn't an abstain because I didn't want you guys, I just didn't get involved enough in the conversation to make an informed decision. No hard feelings) 22:16 < RLim> Not sure if that was suppose to be my responsibility. Let me know if you need help on anything. 22:16 < JMcleod> Chief also has to sign a document accepting us 22:16 < JMcleod> btw 22:16 <~scshunt> or leader 22:17 <~scshunt> I'll get you for the info, Jack 22:17 <~scshunt> svulliez: ping 22:17 <~scshunt> oh right: 22:18 <~scshunt> Ric, I hereby authorize you to claim your copy of RONRIB as a petty expense against the Party. 22:18 <~scshunt> to a maximum of $10 22:18 <~scshunt> TravisMcCrea, svulliez: I hereby authorize you to claim a copy of RONRIB as a petty expense against the Party, to a maximum of $10 22:19 <~scshunt> Any further business? 22:19 < Nuitari> sigh 22:19 < TeamColtra> RONRIB? 22:19 < Nuitari> where can it be bought? 22:19 < TeamColtra> Sounds delicious 22:19 <~scshunt> Nuitari: amazon or bookstore 22:20 < RLim> http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0306820196/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d 22:20 < RLim> 5_g14_i1?pf_rd_m=A3DWYIK6Y9EEQB&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0S29X0957XJJ5YGQ3BBS&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463383511&pf_rd_i=915398 22:20 <~scshunt> Nuitari: the decision was made earlier before you arrived 22:20 < RLim> TeamColtra, Svulliex. It's good to get started if you want to become a parliamentarian. :O 22:20 < RLim> *:) 22:20 < Nuitari> scshunt: it's much less work to place the order then to do refund of expenses 22:20 <~scshunt> Nuitari: it's up to them, though 22:21 < RLim> *Svulliez 22:21 <~scshunt> Nuitari: is that just due to moving receipts/cheques around? 22:21 < TeamColtra> lol RLim I copied and pasted that whole thing including "" into my address bar and clicked enter on accident and it still worked 22:21 < TeamColtra> luckily most of that was just ref data 22:21 <~scshunt> svulliez, TravisMcCrea: I should add that this offer is time-limited, two weeks at most 22:21 < Nuitari> scshunt: mostly, but it's also much cleaner for the audit and for EC (they are nit pickers of the worst kind) 22:22 If we could have the party pay for and ship them to us, that would be convenient for the agent as well as us 22:22 < TeamColtra> Are we getting one for Johann as well? 22:22 <~scshunt> Nuitari: because if at all possible we should accept digital receipts (like from Amazon) and possibly even bank transfers out? 22:22 you could ship 4 for the vancouver area council members to the same address, and save money 22:22 <~scshunt> TeamColtra: he can if he wants 22:22 < TeamColtra> if so we can have them all shipped to svulliez 22:22 <~scshunt> in the meanwhile, any other business? 22:22 < Nuitari> scshunt: has to be paper as we are a small party 22:22 Johann would likely accept, he has a digital copy but holding it in your hands is much better 22:23 < Nuitari> svulliez: that works for me 22:23 < TeamColtra> I know that you are big on following the letter of the rules scshunt so to be clear can all of our money go to one person to make the purchase? 22:23 < RLim> is the minutes for March 5 approved? 22:23 <~scshunt> Not the way that it's written 22:23 <~scshunt> RLim: Yes 22:23 < TeamColtra> because you have allocated us each the ability to buy the book ourselves, but it would be easier if just one of us bought all of our books 22:23 <~scshunt> RLim: And then subsequently amended 22:24 < RLim> you might want to check the amendment 22:24 < RLim> http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/EB_2012-03-05_minutes 22:24 < RLim> last paragraph 22:25 <~scshunt> ah ok 22:25 <~scshunt> better? 22:25 < TeamColtra> scshunt, if we cannot do that, can we go back and pass a new rule that will allocate enough funds for Shawn Vulliez (or myself) to buy 4 copies (one for each Vancouver PC/PB member)? If we don't need that many then great... 22:25 < JMcleod> everyone on EB/PC must buy their own copy, but the shipping address can vary 22:25 < RLim> ok 22:25 <~scshunt> TeamColtra: yes 22:25 <~scshunt> I move to suspend the rules and allow a motion to amend the earlier motion to reimburse for copies of RONRIB notwithstanding that it was adopted at this meeting. 22:26 * TeamColtra uses PPCA funds to start bookstore... muahahhaha 22:26 < RLim> lol 22:26 < TeamColtra> I second 22:26 <~scshunt> Any objections? 22:26 < TeamColtra> For proper decorum can you write out the title? 22:27 < RLim> so this is suspended? 22:27 < RLim> that the Party reimburse Ric Lim for his purchase of RONR IB, and that if any other member of Political Council or Executive Board purchases the book within the next two weeks, the Party shall reimburse them each up to a maximum of $10 for a single copy. 22:27 < RLim> Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised In Brief, 2nd edition 22:27 <~scshunt> Nope, just the rule preventing us from amending it 22:27 < RLim> ic 22:27 < TeamColtra> scshunt, 22:27 < TeamColtra> ^ 22:27 <~scshunt> TeamColtra: ? 22:28 < TeamColtra>  For proper decorum can you write out the title? 22:28 <~scshunt> Ah ok 22:28 < RLim> 22:27 < RLim> Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised In Brief, 2nd edition 22:28 < TeamColtra> RLim, doesn't work that way 22:28 < TeamColtra> The title needs to be in the motion 22:28 < RLim> oh 22:28 < RLim> :P 22:29 <~scshunt> I move to amend the motion previously adopted with regards to RONR IB by replacing 'RONR IB' with 'Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised in Brief, 2nd edition', and by replacing the text beginning with 'and that if any' with 'and that the Party purchaes copies of the book for Jack McLoed, Travis McCrea, Shawn Vulliez, Johann Weissgerber, and Jake Daynes.' 22:30 < TeamColtra> :P it's just a dot your i s kinda thing. Of course, the party wouldn't do this, but under the current wording I could come back and say "here is my reciept" and they said "this is for Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised In Brief, 2nd edition and we only gave you permission to go find a book called RONRIB" 22:30 < Nuitari> why not add the ISBN... 22:30 <~scshunt> hah 22:30 <~scshunt> a/win 2 22:30 < TeamColtra> Nuitari, no, because there can be one book with multiple ISBNs 22:31 < Nuitari> ISBNs then 22:31 <~scshunt> Is there any debate on my motion? 22:31 < TeamColtra> no I second it 22:31 < TeamColtra> I forget if I don't need to do that in this room or the PC room 22:32 <~scshunt> neither 22:32 < TeamColtra> Oh 22:32 <~scshunt> Ok, seeing no debate, we'll put it to a vote 22:32 < JMcleod> second is only for GM 22:32 < JMcleod> afaik 22:32 <~scshunt> The question is as moved; all in favor, say aye, all opposed, say nay 22:32 < JMcleod> aye 22:32 <~scshunt> aye 22:32 < JMcleod> btw 22:33 < JMcleod> McLeod 22:33 <~scshunt> bah 22:33 < RLim> aye 22:33 <~scshunt> The ayes have it and the motion is adopted; any objection to spelling Jack's name correctly in the motion? 22:34 < Nuitari> yes 22:34 <~scshunt> Nuitari: really? 22:34 < Nuitari> no 22:34 <~scshunt> ok ;) 22:34 <~scshunt> The motion is adopted to spell Jack's name correctly 22:34 <~scshunt> any other business? 22:35 < JMcleod> none here 22:35 < RLim> wait 22:35 < RLim> the motion as it reads right now after the amendment 22:36 < RLim> nvm I'll just correct it if that's ok 22:36 < RLim> you want the next two weeks there? 22:37 <~scshunt> No, because the Party is just going to buy them 22:37 < RLim> ok I am good 22:38 < RLim> your amendment is text beginning not replace. So it's good 22:38 < RLim> ignore me. lol 22:38 <~scshunt> svulliez: do you have anything? 22:38 <~scshunt> lol 22:38 Motion to allow individual members the ability to determine their own name and identity within the party and go by a pseudonym if they please. 22:39 < JMcleod> also, if this was done orally, the secretary would not have spelling mistakes, so you can fix em :P 22:39 < JMcleod> Without having to move every single fix :P 22:39 <~scshunt> Shawn moves to allow indidivual members to determine their own name and identity within the Party and go by a pseudonym if they please. 22:39 < TeamColtra> Can we be more clear? 22:39 < JMcleod> wait 22:40 < JMcleod> didnt we already pass that before? 22:40 <~scshunt> JMcleod: No. 22:41 < TeamColtra> Obviously there are Elections Canada rules about having identities and such, which must be reviewed before something like this is passed. It also must discuss the extent to which this applies? 22:41 <~scshunt> TeamColtra: I don't think it needs to be particularly clear... I think this is more of a reaffirmation of support than anything since people are already free to use pseudonyms 22:41 < TeamColtra> I mean on the forums people go by screen names all the time 22:41 <~scshunt> TeamColtra: this is for internal stuff 22:41 <~scshunt> I don't think it's necessary, but I'm not opposed either 22:41 < RLim> deja vu 22:41 < TeamColtra> he says "moves to allow" not "moves to reaffirm" which would make me assume he wants to change a rule 22:43 <~scshunt> Hmm... true. It's too late to rule the motion out of order though, as we've started on debate. 22:43 < JMcleod> I move to replace allow with reaffirm 22:43 <~scshunt> Any objections to this? 22:43 < TeamColtra> Doesn't that need to be an amendment? 22:43 -!- JakeDaynes [JakeDaynes@C736CF01.8DE8B757.D957FDFD.IP] has joined #exec 22:43 <~scshunt> TeamColtra: sounds like an amendment to me 22:44 < JakeDaynes> ? 22:44 < JMcleod> It is one :) 22:44 < JMcleod> hey Jake 22:44 < JakeDaynes> Salut 22:44 <~scshunt> Okay, seeing none, the motion is so amended 22:44 < RLim> hey 22:45 <~scshunt> Any more discussion on the motion to reaffirm individual members to determine their own name and identity within the Party and go by a pseudonym if they please. 22:45 < TeamColtra> Umm 22:45 < TeamColtra> I am just concerned with the wording 22:45 < JMcleod> which part? 22:46 < TeamColtra> It needs to be clear that you still become a member with your real name 22:46 < JMcleod> Well, thats a law isnt it? 22:46 < JMcleod> we cant overpass laws 22:46 < TeamColtra> We SHOULDN'T overpass laws 22:46 <~scshunt> We can't 22:46 <~scshunt> and it says "within the party" 22:46 < TeamColtra> we could technically pass something that does, but then we would be in violation of the law 22:47 < TeamColtra> I motion to amend it to be "motion to reaffirm individual members to determine their own name and identity where legally allowable within the Party and go by a pseudonym if they please" 22:48 <~scshunt> Any objections to TeamColtra's motion? 22:49 < TeamColtra> None here :) 22:49 <~scshunt> Then it is amended as he described. Any debate on the motion as amended? 22:49 < JMcleod> nope 22:50 < JMcleod> its better like that since it gives us ground to ban names like I_WILL_MURDER_SHAWN 22:50 <~scshunt> Ok,then I'll put it to a vote 22:50 <~scshunt> The question is on the motion 'to reaffirm individual members to determine their own name and identity where legally allowable within the Party and go by a pseudonym if they please' 22:50 <~scshunt> All in favor say aye, all opposed say nay 22:50 < JMcleod> aye 22:51 < RLim> aye 22:52 <~scshunt> aye 22:52 <~scshunt> The ayes have it and the motion is adopted. 22:52 <~scshunt> I move to adjourn. 22:52 <~scshunt> The question is on the motion to adjourn. All in favor say aye, all opposed say nay 22:53 < JMcleod> aye 22:53 <~scshunt> aye 22:53 < RLim> aye 22:53 <~scshunt> The ayes have it and the motion is adopted. The meeting is now adjourned.



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