PC 2012-09-30 transcript

Transcript of the PC meeting:



6:21<@scshunt> Ok so we have a quorum <@scshunt> can we please proceed to elect a deputy leader? <@oxpirate> How would you buys feel about creating a .txt with all our social media log ins, and distributing it to all PC and social media members? <@CCitizen> Do we have any candidates looking for the position <@scshunt> not afaik <@Wilson> We had two interested didn't we? <@scshunt> but the position consists of: be on EB, take over if shawn gets hit by a bus <@scshunt> No, by my analysis everyone but you and Jesse didn't want it <@CCitizen> Well I'll say I'm not interested... I'm too busy as it is <@oxpirate> I would volunteer but I have too much on my plate right now for additional responsibility. <@Shawn> So it's Wilson or Jesse? <@CCitizen> and Jesse isnt here atm... <@Wilson> I declined last week but seeing as I have very little on my plate I'll let my name stand <@scshunt> I'm willing to wait to see if he show's up <@scshunt> *shows <@oxpirate> Oh, does anyone here have admin access to the wiki? <@Shawn> I thought I did, but it seemed I had some limitations. <@oxpirate> Can you add https://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/Organizing_For_PPCA to the front page under documents? <@oxpirate> I sent an email to the IT committee a month ago with no results. <@scshunt> oxpirate: you got CRM access, right? <@oxpirate> yes <@Shawn> I motion to make James Wilson the Deputy Leader automatically at the end of this meeting if no other PC member nominates themselves. <@scshunt> CCitizen: actually, being DL would give you no additional responsibility unless shawn gets run over <@scshunt> second <@Shawn> I want to leave it open if Jesse or Jake or Madi shows up and want it badly, but I want to assure it does not slip by <@Shawn> there will be *a* deputy leader by the end of today :) <@scshunt> agreed <@Shawn> I think Wilson would do a fine job, and I do not intend to jump in front of any buses <@Shawn> Any objections to the previous motion? oxpirate Wilson CCitizen ? <@oxpirate> Nay <@Wilson> As the motion concerns me I'll stay silent <@scshunt> why is no one else looking at the google doc? :/ <@Wilson> opps didn't see it <@scshunt> if you don't have access give me the email of a google account or just request it <@Shawn> logged into the wrong gmail account, 1 sec <@scshunt> Shawn: what's the email? I'll give it access <@CCitizen> I dont object to that <@Shawn> scshunt: too late :P its my old spam e-mail I was using to post on craigslist, i' there <@scshunt> ah ok Shawn Quit (Quit: Web client closed) svulliez (~vulliez@209.121.gqy.gxq) has joined #canada-pc <@svulliez> sorry about my blip there <@svulliez> link the doc again scshunt? I lost my browser windows <@oxpirate> I also wanted to formally request that PC members take the time to read the books "Playbook For Progressives" by Eric Mann and "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky. I /very seriously/ think that sharing the knowledge in these books with each other will allow us to drastically improve the effectiveness of our efforts. <@oxpirate> I uploaded PDFs to the wiki page on organizing. <@scshunt> I will try to at least skim them <@svulliez> Which would you say is more applicable to the Pirate Party in it's current form, oxpirate? could you choose? <@svulliez> I have no problem reading them, I'm tempted to pass on to the EB to get funding to order a couple copies like we did with the RRoO- I find it infinitely easier to read a book than an ebook <@scshunt> I'm fine with an ebook <@CCitizen> I can read a pdf easily enough <@scshunt> jack could possibly purchase some without needing to go through the EB <@oxpirate> Rules for Radicals is the "meat and potatoes" of the two, and seriously influenced Obama's 2008 presidential campaign so it's a very good book to read. Playbook for Progressives is about personal refinement of skills, and is also very good. <@oxpirate> The pdf of Rules for Radicals isn't the best in there though. The Scribd document is better. Personally, I opted to pick up a copy at the library. <@svulliez> I have a policy suggestion that may need to go to a constitutional amendment <@svulliez> but is ultimately coming from a place of PR <@CCitizen> oh? <@svulliez> I think we should explicitly list other Political Parties that you are allowed to be a member of at the same time as the Pirate Party, and encourage other parties to specifically name us the same way <@svulliez> do a bit of press about exclusionary/inclusionary parties etc <@svulliez> and collaboration <@scshunt> that doesn't need a constitutional amendment; we don't bar membership in other parties <@scshunt> at least, we didn't last I checked <@svulliez> so most big tent parties forbid membership in other parties in their constitution <@oxpirate> Isn't that unconstitutional? <@scshunt> oxpirate: the constitution of canada? <@scshunt> applies only to government <@oxpirate> Of which the charter is a part. <@svulliez> I'd like our constitution to say the same thing except to specifically say you're allowed to be a member of CAP, the libertarians, christian heritage, technocratic party, online party, etc. <@Wilson> parties are private organizations. they can let whoever they want in and exclude provided it ain't a charter reason <@svulliez> we'd only forbid being a member of the greens, the liberals, the cons, or the NDP <@scshunt> svulliez: That sounds like a good thing to add as an informative annotation or something <@scshunt> We shouldn't forbid being a member of another party <@scshunt> since then we'd have to change that if any of those parties changed their rules <@Wilson> ^this <@scshunt> and it's not like you can somehow be a liberal and a pirate but not a pirate and a liberal <@svulliez> yes, I understand <@Wilson> even if they forbid multi-party memberships, we should not stoop to that level <@svulliez> however I think an important thing to consider is the optics, if it was done right <@svulliez> and the minor parties had this type of explicit voluntary member-by-member basis coalition <@svulliez> that the greens or the liberals could join if only they explicitly allowed us and acknowledged us <@scshunt> I don't think we need to do that in our constitution <@scshunt> but I'd be fine with putting a list on our site <@svulliez> I don't really care, I just feared we'd have to make it constitutional <@svulliez> I think major parties have good reason to forbid cross-contamination <@svulliez> imagine if the conservatives and NDP had the same membership lists <@Wilson> Would that be a bad thing? <@scshunt> We can say "The Pirate Party of Canada doesn't forbid members from being in other political parties, but some major parties do. Here is a list of other parties with which you can hold simultaneous memberships." <@Wilson> ^agreed <@svulliez> yes, from the tinfoily "both major parties are the same" thing that people get on about <@svulliez> I like that <@svulliez> (scshunt's suggestion) <@Wilson> So put it to a vote? <@svulliez> I motion to keep a list of parties that members are not forbidden from holding memberships with in addition to the PPCA on our site. <@scshunt> +1 <@Wilson> aye <@svulliez> seeing no objections, another motion <@svulliez> I motion to message the parties that we list, and encourage them to keep similar lists as part of an ongoing alliance <@scshunt> will you do that? <@svulliez> I won't do it today but I have no problem doing it in theory <@scshunt> haha <@scshunt> can we get "to have the Leader" at the front? <@svulliez> that will just tie our hands, lets keep it open to outsourcing ;) <@Wilson> having supper afk <@svulliez> Once we get the new e-mail system I believe we should start enlisting some unlected volunteers to help us out <@scshunt> CCitizen: ping <@scshunt> we should * scshunt kicks jake <@svulliez> perhaps one assistant for each of us <@svulliez> I have found a young man willing to send out emails for us in exchange for me being a reference on his resume :) <@svulliez> but I have no email account to give him yet <@scshunt> haha "assistant" <@scshunt> sending out emails is not hard with the CRM <@scshunt> it just is misconfigured <@scshunt> but yeah, we need volunteer emails <@scshunt> Actually, I have a motion <@CCitizen> yeah? <@scshunt> I move that next week's meeting be devoted primarily to discussing the website, and we request that the EB and ITC join us on the discussion. <@CCitizen> sounds good <@svulliez> I don't mind that idea at all <@scshunt> we can discuss some stuff before the meeting <@scshunt> and I would like to get andrew and jeremy here too <@scshunt> (hint: when I say request, I mean "request") <@svulliez> I'm in favor, but i'm going to eat dinner now, hopefully we'll all still be here in half an hour <@svulliez> im gunna wrestle jake back into the fold <@scshunt> I motion to recess for half an hour <@svulliez> seconded 7:30<@scshunt> Wilson, CCitizen, oxpirate: meeting resumes in half an hour. Be there! ~DURING RECESS~ <@Wilson> k <@oxpirate> I'll try <@CCitizen> ok <@scshunt> oxpirate: drag sid if you can <@Wilson> When we regroup I would like to motion the following: "All documents and/or reports which are intended to be presented publically to the membership at a General Meeting will also be posted to the forum and at least one social media platform on the same day as the General Meeting even if, for whatever reason, the document/report is not presented. The Political Council report will be posted to the forum and at least one social media platform without undue delay." <@scshunt> why "at least one"? <@Wilson> Because it could be put on more than one if we wanted to <@scshunt> sure, but why minimum one then <@scshunt> I'll just put it over on linkedin :P <@Wilson> Twitter may not be the best place for example <@scshunt> something like "all appropriate social media platforms" or something <@Wilson> Then we have to define appropriate as...Facebook and...? <@scshunt> I think we leave it undefined <@Wilson> ah k <@scshunt> adding a minimum of one seems just arbitrary and sort of silly <@scshunt> why not two? (Facebook and G+, say) <@CCitizen> Why not before the meeting... usually things should have been read before so people can make comments ~END RECESS~ <@svulliez> I'm back <@svulliez> jake to follow in a minute jakedaynes has joined #canada-pc ChanServ sets mode: +o jakedaynes <@Wilson> yo <@jakedaynes> Hola amigos <@jakedaynes> Como est as? <@jakedaynes> I'm coming to you live from Shawn's new room, featuring a door <@CCitizen> hi <@Wilson> A door?! Damn bourgeois... <@jakedaynes> Hey patrick <@svulliez> I let jake into my room even though he's a security hazard <@svulliez> lol Wilson <@jakedaynes> Can you please go to BMO? <@CCitizen> what do I gotta do again <@jakedaynes> Ric sent an email <@scshunt> jakedaynes: did you follow the discussion about the crm? <@jakedaynes> You need to get signed onto the account so we can get bank access, so we can pay for the new server <@jakedaynes> Scshunt, partially, I've been all over the province for a week, and just finished moving <@scshunt> ok <@jakedaynes> Brb <@CCitizen> ah crap ok <@scshunt> CCitizen: read email more <@jakedaynes> For a point of reference, I drove 1500km last week, and then drove home from the okanagan <@scshunt> wow <@jakedaynes> Yeah <@Wilson> I would like to motion the following: "All documents and/or reports which are intended to be presented publically to the membership at a General Meeting will also be posted to the forum and appropriate social media platforms when finalized and before the next General Meeting. The Political Council report will be posted to the forum and and apprpriate social media platform." <@scshunt> My motion still needs to be dealt with <@Wilson> sorry didn't see it... <@scshunt> it was before the recess <@Wilson> ah k <@Wilson> Can you repost since Jake just arrived? <@jakedaynes> Thanks <@svulliez> ...scshunt? <@scshunt> just a minute <@CCitizen> probably mean and/or not and and <@scshunt> 20:58:40 I move that next week's meeting be devoted primarily to discussing the website, and we request that the EB and ITC join us on the discussion. <@svulliez> seconded <@Wilson> Since the website does need some lovin' I support this * @jakedaynes hides sheepishly <@svulliez> anybody want to discuss this motion? <@svulliez> any important points before we vote? <@scshunt> jakedaynes: please don't run off until after we talk about the CRM <@jakedaynes> I wont <@svulliez> Alright, all in favour of the motion say aye <@jakedaynes> Aye <@Wilson> aye <@scshunt> aye <@CCitizen> aye <@svulliez> the motion passes. <@svulliez> oxpirate are you still with us? <@svulliez> Wilson has a motion also. you have the floor wilson. jhowell has joined #canada-pc <@jhowell> since when did this exist? <@oxpirate> For now <@Wilson> I would like to motion the following: "All documents and/or reports which are intended to be presented publically to the membership at a General Meeting will also be posted to the forum and appropriate social media platforms when finalized and before the next General Meeting. The Political Council report will be posted to the forum and and apprpriate social media platform." <@oxpirate> second <@svulliez> If no one pipes up with discussion or a dissenting viewpoint, I'm going to consider this passed as well <@CCitizen> I think you still got the typo in there <@scshunt> in favour <@scshunt> I don't think that's a typo <@CCitizen> the double and <@svulliez> apprpriate <@CCitizen> right near the end doesnt sound right <@svulliez> and "and and" <@CCitizen> only need one and there <@svulliez> neither mess up the meaning <@svulliez> the motion carries <@scshunt> although the second sentence is slightly redundant <@scshunt> hey, I think CCitizen didn't agree to that; the chair can't rush things through <@svulliez> PC reports will be posted to social media, I don't believe ccitizen is interested in contesting this <@svulliez> if anyone has an issue with my chairing, pm me. I do not intend to railroad anything <@svulliez> just want to be efficient <@CCitizen> just pointing out a grammar/typo thing the spirit of it is entirely fine with me :) <@svulliez> alright, we're cleared of motions <@Wilson> Ah I see the typo now <@jakedaynes> Scshunt, you want to discuss the crm? <@scshunt> jakedaynes: you aren't interested in being deputy leader are you? <@jakedaynes> No <@scshunt> Well it's not really a PC thing <@jakedaynes> I don't feel it would be fair to the party <@scshunt> heh <@scshunt> just chekcing <@scshunt> *checking <@scshunt> we agreed earlier that unless someone steps up by the end of the meeting, it's Wilson <@svulliez> I'm happy to have Wilson doing it <@scshunt> so am I <@scshunt> but we should be fair <@jakedaynes> Shawn already ran it past me, I'm happy to see Wilson in the position <@svulliez> agreed. just re-upping on my support for james :) <@Wilson> so...on to the software requirements debate? <@CCitizen> I think he'll do a good job <@svulliez> I don't have a problem with any of it, my worry is the implementation <@svulliez> what has been discussed so far is reasonable <@svulliez> but how and when is it going to be done <@jakedaynes> Scshunt, you down to discuss crm over the phone then? Shawn and I are utilizing mobile phone hotspots right now, and I haven't even got my computer setup yet <@svulliez> and should our IT load be focusing on a new email system etc before then? <@scshunt> jakedaynes: certainly <@Wilson> Should we use volunteer labour or shell out for a pro job? <@scshunt> We don't have the money for a pro job I think <@svulliez> hm, thats getting into exec territory regardless <@CCitizen> I'd go with volunteer if possible but we got to be careful regarding self employed people :( <@jakedaynes> Kay, I'm afk then, but Shawn will keep me posted on the discussion <@CCitizen> Thats one thing I think we should add into our platform <@scshunt> jakedaynes: not yet <@scshunt> let's finish the requirements <@scshunt> who changed it to "anonymous access should definitely be permitted"? <@jakedaynes> K <@CCitizen> The ability for people to donate their own personal time without it counting as political contributions regardless of employment status <@CCitizen> It's rather crippling towards smaller parties who rely heavily on volunteers <@jakedaynes> Not I, but I agree with it in conjunction with Patrick's point at the bottom <@scshunt> as do I <@scshunt> but the comment chain disappeared <@scshunt> oh, it was svulliez <@CCitizen> how do I add a comment thinggy in this <@jakedaynes> No idea, I'm on my phone, very limited usability. G/F is using my tablet <@scshunt> CCitizen: select text, right click <@svulliez> I accidentally made it disappear by hitting the resolve button, which I thought was bgoing to shrink it down and allow me to say the conclusion <@scshunt> ah <@CCitizen> not working in firefox for some reason <@scshunt> CCitizen: :( <@scshunt> what's your comment then? <@svulliez> I changed the definitely going to allow anon access to something more pragmatic <@scshunt> yeah <@scshunt> I'm happy with that <@CCitizen> figured it out <@CCitizen> format comment thinggy <@jakedaynes> same * oxpirate Quit <@svulliez> I think this meeting might be pooped out <@jakedaynes> ? <@svulliez> Wilson: congrats on being the Deputy Leader :) <@jakedaynes> Yeah, congrats, sucka~ <@jakedaynes> Scshunt? <@CCitizen> or everyones on the google docs page now <@jakedaynes> Oh ^ <@Wilson> First mate on a ship of fools, eh >:P <@scshunt> yup <@scshunt> oh, and one other note <@scshunt> guys, these meetings are important <@scshunt> we need to not treat them as optional <@scshunt> I know I have been, and I'm sorry <@jakedaynes> I would have liked to be here the past few weeks, but when I'm driving across the province, its hard <@jakedaynes> But I agree with the sentiment <@svulliez> i wanted to go last week but I was so tuckered out! <@svulliez> haha <@svulliez> I fell asleep basically at my computer <@scshunt> Can we develop an informal policy that anyone expecting to miss a meeting should email council@ as soon as they know? <@svulliez> that would be good <@svulliez> i'd also like to have it set up where people can invalidate themselves towards quorum if they're going to be out of town etc if possible <@svulliez> not sure if that violates RRoo <@CCitizen> you know I read a CBC article that says political parties dont have to abide by PIPEDA and similar privacy laws :P <@CCitizen> That was one thing the Constitutional Committee was looking at allowing <@scshunt> svulliez: I think the constitution can set it, but we have to remember what a quorum is for before we do that <@CCitizen> like giving a leave of absense notice to the body in question <@scshunt> ideally, we should be able to hit this quorum on a very regular basis <@scshunt> by which I mean, every week <@scshunt> if three of us go on vacation, does that mean that three others should be able to make major decisions? <@scshunt> if the answer is yes, change the quorum <@scshunt> (we could also move it out of the constitution and to a weaker document) <@CCitizen> if i'm going out in the boonies with no access for a week or two then i could voluntarily remove myself from the list for those two weeks <@svulliez> I think this 8 person council is great because we usually hit five <@scshunt> sure, but the question is really "how many is too few?" <@Wilson> usually? <@scshunt> if 4 is too few when I'm not on vacation <@scshunt> why is it suddenly alright if I am <@svulliez> because of the pragmatic impossibility of you being there <@svulliez> one of us knows that they can't come, and they personally weigh that <@scshunt> CCitizen: have you poked shawn about that? <@scshunt> or tried to call a meeting without him? <@CCitizen> about what <@svulliez> do I want to lower the quorum? <@CCitizen> ah I have been busy looking for a job myself <@CCitizen> sucks because my cousin got a job at the grocery store with an absolutely shit resume... and I barely get a call back <@scshunt> svulliez: no, shawn gray <@scshunt> ok, I think the document has settled <@scshunt> I'm going to suggest the following: <@scshunt> a) delete the bit about party members being considered validated <@scshunt> b) delete the bit about a minimum percentage <@scshunt> c) delete the bit about a rate limit <@scshunt> d) use the suggested text re: CAPTCHAs <@scshunt> any issues with this? <@CCitizen> Well we can do a without explicitly stating it publicly <@CCitizen> just makes sense IMHO... the minimum % thing is for when we get from taking all suggestions from everywhere and start working with the data collected... so we dont really need that there <@svulliez> go for it hunt, i think your comments are reasonable <@svulliez> I bless you with the power to resolve outstanding issues and complete the text <@scshunt> Ok. I move the adoption of the current text as the requirements for the software, to be given to EB and IT <@svulliez> in favor. <@svulliez> any discussion? <@CCitizen> sounds good <@jakedaynes> Sounds good to me <@svulliez> seeing as theres no opposition, it is passed <@svulliez> I need tostart getting ready to go to bed, early work tomorrow. I can be somewhat present but I can't chair anymore <@svulliez> I'm not sure we have any more business <@scshunt> I don't think so <@scshunt> I move we adjourn <@jakedaynes> Seconded <@jakedaynes> All in favor? <@Wilson> aye <@svulliez> aye <@jakedaynes> Aye <@CCitizen> aye <@scshunt> aye ~MEETING AJOURNED 8:40~

