GM 2012-06-20 transcript

 NOTE: All log times are in Central time.

19:23 -SeanHunt:#canada- I hereby call the June general meeting of the Pirate Party of Canada to order. 19:24 < CitizenDailyiVo> :) 19:24 -SeanHunt:#canada- If you are a member of the PPCA and have not signed in, please visit https://meetings.pirateparty.ca/login.php If you are unable to sign in, please contact me. 19:24 < CitizenDailyiVo> wb, sean? 19:24 -SeanHunt:#canada- The Secretary will present the minutes of the last meeting. 19:25 -SeanHunt:#canada- Please check them for errors and offer any corrections here. If there are no corrections, they will be approved. 19:25 <+RLim> http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/GM_2012-05-16_minutes 19:26 <+RLim> that's last month's minutes. Please let me know if there are any corrections 19:27 <+JohannWeiss> Looks correct 19:27 < CitizenDailyiVo> nice 19:27 < CitizenDailyiVo> im new here, Trevor/Free SCV from Surrey BC Canada =) 19:28 Hey Trevor :) 19:28 < max_CAPP> Checking in from California, United States! 19:28 < CitizenDailyiVo> i was on the facebook page for ppc and came here. 19:28 <@SeanHunt> CitizenDailyiVo: Are yo ua member? 19:28 <@SeanHunt> *you a 19:28 <@SeanHunt> max_CAPP: Same to you? 19:28 < CitizenDailyiVo> no, not yet Sean. 19:28 <@SeanHunt> Okay. 19:28 < max_CAPP> I am not a member of the Canadian Pirate Party, I am a member of the California Pirate Party - a part of the Pirate Party - United States. 19:28 <+MononcQc> fits my memory of last month too 19:29 < CitizenDailyiVo> http://www.facebook.com/DailyVotingAp - I run this facebook page, a mere 100 likes but pushing the idea. 19:29 -SeanHunt:#canada- Per the special rule of order adopted last meeting, guest are allowed to participate, but please do not interrupt proceedings. 19:29 < max_CAPP> Just checking in to show support! 19:29 -SeanHunt:#canada- Seeing no corrections, the minutes are approved. 19:29 <@SeanHunt> Thanks :) 19:29 <@SeanHunt> We'll now proceed to reports. 19:29 < CitizenDailyiVo> I wanted Americans to see daily voting alongside leaders but Canada doing it could still lead. I won't spam you guys up but these are my personal goal, happy to help out around here and see what these minutes are all aboot. :P 19:29 <@SeanHunt> svulliez: Can you give your report first? I'm finishing transcribing mine. 19:32 <@SeanHunt> I guess not. Fortunately, mine's working. 19:33 <@SeanHunt> I'll get a link once I upload it 19:33 <+Christoph> ZING! 19:33 <@SeanHunt> https://www.pirateparty.ca/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2218.0;attach=344 19:34 <+JohannWeiss> That's not working for me. 19:34 <@SeanHunt> https://www.pirateparty.ca/forum/index.php?topic=2218.15 19:34 <@SeanHunt> it's the attachment on the one post 19:35 <@SeanHunt> I'll let you all peruse the report, then I'll make the motion for the adoption of the recommendations. 19:35 <@SeanHunt> and ask questions, of course :) 19:35 <@SeanHunt> Although please no discussion without a motion pending. 19:35 <@SeanHunt> These meetings take long enough as is. 19:36 -SeanHunt:#canada- If you're at all confused about the procedure or rules, by the way, please contact me privately and I'll help you out. 19:36 < CitizenDailyiVo> HST in BC Canada was my inspiration for a daily iVote ap. Citizens successfully BEAT the run away govt's tax merge law NO ONE wanted....I expect one day to see Canadians upvoting the good, downvoting the bad, alongside/OVER our "leaders"... :) 19:37 -SeanHunt:#canada- If you wish to discuss topics not related to the meeting, please join #canada-riffraff for off-topic discussion. 19:37 < CitizenDailyiVo> tyvm, i will. http://www.visagesoft.com/products/pdfreader/ I use Xpert PDF reader instead of Adobe for docs (checking yer link now) 19:38 <+JakeDaynes> (here) 19:38 <@SeanHunt> The set of rules referred to in the report are the ten rules at the bottom of http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/Rules_of_Order#Suggested_Rules 19:38 <@SeanHunt> And the committee motion is " that a special committee be formed to study the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, chaired by the President, consisting of 3 members appointed by this meeting and one appointed by each of the PC and the EB, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a final report at the August GM." 19:41 <+svulliez> My "report": The most essential information as to what has happened in the last month in the PPCA could be summarized as: We're working on a new website that is located at dev.pirateparty.ca - We're beginning the process of crowdsourcing the platform over the next series of months. I haven't prepared a pdf. If you want to know how I feel about the Yehoshua situation you can find his thread in the forums where I have weighed in in context. 19:41 <+svulliez> My report is a small report, but it is not the size of the report. It is how you use it. 19:42 <+JohannWeiss> https://www.pirateparty.ca/forum/index.php?board=112.0 19:42 <@SeanHunt> Yeah, you should definitely participate in the platform-building process 19:43 <+JohannWeiss> That's where the crowdsourcing is being started 19:44 <@SeanHunt> Are there any questions on my report? 19:44 <@SeanHunt> Or are people still reading? 19:44 * Rintaran has completed reading, and has no questions at this time. 19:45 <+JakeDaynes> ^ 19:45 <+Christoph> Still reading. 19:45 <+JohannWeiss> ^ 19:46 <+gregwadden> I'm good on the report, first meeting, going to be pretty passive tonight. 19:47 < SilverSlimer> late for the meeting! my apologies to those who noticed! :) 19:47 -SeanHunt:#canada- For those just joining, if you are PPCA members, please log in at the link in the topic. If you are not, you are free to participate in debate, but please obey the rules. 19:48 <@SeanHunt> If there's no objection, I'll move on with the recommendations and if members still have questions afterward, I'll take them then? 19:48 <+JohannWeiss> no objection 19:49 <+psema4> ^ 19:49 <@SeanHunt> Okay. I move for the ten rules at the bottom of http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/Rules_of_Order#Suggested_Rules to be used for today's meeting, and also that a special committee be formed to study the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, chaired by the President, consisting of 3 members appointed by this meeting and one appointed by each of the PC and the EB, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM ... 19:49 <@SeanHunt> ... followed by a final report at the August GM. 19:49 <+JakeDaynes> seconded 19:50 <@SeanHunt> The question is on that motion. I'll note that as the motion directs us to appoint three members to the committee, if adopted we'll proceed directly to elect them. Is there any discussion? 19:51 <+svulliez> Is there any need for these both to be one motion? 19:51 <@SeanHunt> No. 19:51 <@SeanHunt> Since they are unrelated, they can be split if any member wants them to be. 19:51 <+svulliez> I think it'd be good practice to split them. 19:52 <+Rintaran> Yeah, don't want to get in the habit of omnibus bills already. ;) 19:52 < Minkowski> haha 19:52 <+gregwadden> lol 19:52 <+Christoph> Also zing! 19:52 <+phillipsjk> Would the new rules mean we have to PM the chair for questions sauch as this? 19:52 <@SeanHunt> Ok. 19:52 <@SeanHunt> phillipsjk: You wouldn't have to, but it would generally be preferred if it wouldn't interrupt business. 19:53 <@SeanHunt> So the question is split. 19:53 <@SeanHunt> The question is now on the motion for the ten rules at the bottom of http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/Rules_of_Order#Suggested_Rules to be used for today's meeting. 19:53 <@SeanHunt> Is there any discussion? 19:54 <+JohannWeiss> none from me 19:54 <@SeanHunt> Okay, seeing none, the motion will be put to a vote. As it changes the rules, it will require a two-thirds vote. 19:54 <+jlamothe> Seems pretty straight-forward. 19:54 <+Rintaran> For point 4, should it not say "up to 5 minutes each" ? 19:54 <+Sqratz__> Me neither.. 19:54 <+Rintaran> Elsewise, according to the rule, we would be required to utilize 5 minutes in a speech.Which seems pretty silly. 19:54 <@SeanHunt> Rintaran: I don't see any issue with that amendment; as long as no one objects, we'll continue with it amended like that. 19:55 <+JakeDaynes> yeah - let's go with the amendment 19:55 <@SeanHunt> The question is now on the motion to adopt the rules with the amendment suggested by Rintaran. 19:55 <+Christoph> I'm with Rintaran on this one. 19:55 <+Christoph> "Up to" makes more sense than a set amount. 19:55 <@SeanHunt> ampersand Christoph Drastik gregwadden JakeDaynes jlamothe JohannWeiss lcameron McGrath MononcQc phillipsjk psema4 Rintaran RLim SilverSlimer Sqratz__ svulliez teamcoltra Wilson: 19:55 <+gregwadden> agreed 19:55 <+MononcQc> aye 19:56 <+JakeDaynes> aye 19:56 <+Rintaran> aye 19:56 <+Christoph> aye 19:56 <+svulliez> aye 19:56 <+Drastik> aye 19:56 <+JohannWeiss> aye 19:56 <+jlamothe> aye 19:56 <+Sqratz__> Aye 19:56 <+ampersand> aye 19:56 <+psema4> abstain 19:56 <+Wilson> aye 19:56 <@SeanHunt> The question is on the motion to adopt the 10 rules at the bottom of http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/Rules_of_Order#Suggested_Rules to be used for today's meeting with the amendmen that #4 reads "... up to 5 minutes each". All in favor please say aye; all opposed please say nay. 19:56 <@SeanHunt> oh my ;) 19:56 <+lcameron> aye 19:56 <+Christoph> aye again 19:56 aye 19:56 <+psema4> abstain again 19:56 <+Rintaran> aye 19:56 <+Sqratz__> *reading* 19:56 <+lcameron> aye 19:56 <+JakeDaynes> aye (again) 19:56 <+JohannWeiss> aye 19:56 <+gregwadden> aye 19:56 <+Wilson> aye 19:57 <+jlamothe> aye (again) 19:57 <+MononcQc> aye x2 19:57 <+ampersand> aye 19:57 <+Drastik> aye 19:57 aye 19:57 <+svulliez> aye 19:57 <+SilverSlimer> aye 19:57 <+Sqratz__> aye 19:58 -SeanHunt:#canada- The ayes have it and the motion is adopted. The question is now on the motion that a special committee be formed to study the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, chaired by the President, consisting of 3 members appointed by this meeting and one appointed by each of the PC and the EB,  and deliver notice of motions at the July GM 19:58 -SeanHunt:#canada- followed by a full report at the August GM 19:58 -SeanHunt:#canada- Is there any discussion on the motion? 19:59 <+Rintaran> What is the scope of this committee? The entire Constitution, or just a specific portion? 19:59 <@SeanHunt> The entire thing. 20:00 <+psema4> Is two months sufficient? we've been doing constitution a long time now 20:00 <+SilverSlimer> i think it's a good idea. there are likely to be a lot of carefully-worded sentences to give administrations all sorts of powers 20:00 <+SilverSlimer> unethical powers at that 20:01 <+Rintaran> Constitution Refinement Committees tend to get very bogged down with modifying the enirety. Would it not be advisable to examine specific problem segments and leave the portions that work properly alone? I'm not comfortable losing another entire year seeing a constitution rewritten again. 20:01 <+ampersand> since the role of president is up in the air right now what with SeanHunt saying he'd resign last meeting... 20:01 < Minkowski> I would suggest that all members of the comittee be elected not appointed 20:01 <+svulliez> I don't see any specific reason to appoint the President as the chair, if there is anyone who wants to compete for the position I think we should allow for open market style competition 20:01 <+ampersand> I don't think it's a good idea to have him heading a new commitee 20:01 <+SilverSlimer> oh crap you're referring to the party's constitution, my bad. 20:01 <+Christoph> I agree with the electing. 20:02 I second. 20:02 <+Christoph> I also agree with svulliez, elect the whole team. 20:03 <+ampersand> I'd support that. 20:03 <@SeanHunt> Does anyone have a specific motion in amendment to make? 20:03 <+svulliez> ampersand brings up an interesting point. Last meeting Sean Hunt said that he would resign if constitutional amendment number ten passed, if that is the case, we have no idea who will be heading this committee 20:03 <+svulliez> so a democratic process is preferable 20:04 agreed 20:04 <+Christoph> Seconded. 20:04 <+MononcQc> agreed 20:04 <+RLim> haroldgraphene and Minkowski, please get yourself voiced if you want your vote counted 20:04 <+psema4> ^ 20:04 < Minkowski> Not a full member, sorry 20:04 <+RLim> np 20:04 <@SeanHunt> If I resign and my resignation is accepted, Jack McLeod will become President. 20:04 <+JakeDaynes> I motion to amend the question as follows: The ayes have it and the motion is adopted. The question is now on the motion that a special committee be formed to study the new constitution & bylaws and report  recommendations, chaired by no less than 6 individuals, elected by membership,  and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the august GM 20:04 <+Rintaran> I move that the motion be amended to add "roles and duties of the Executive Board and the Political Board in" after "..be formed to study..." 20:04 <+JakeDaynes> *that a special committee be formed to study the new constitution & bylaws and report  recommendations, chaired by no less than 6 individuals, elected by membership,  and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the august GM 20:05 /msg sb B9Y 20:05 <@SeanHunt> JakeDaynes' motion was first. 20:05 loool 20:05 <+haroldgraphene> AGreed 20:05 <@SeanHunt> Is there a second for JakeDaynes' motion to replace everything from "chaired" to "EB" inclusive with "chaired by no less than 6 individuals, elected by membership"? 20:06 <+JohannWeiss> seconded 20:06 <@SeanHunt> Ok. 20:06 <@SeanHunt> Is there any objection to the amendment? 20:06 <+svulliez> The problem with this amendment being the timeframe of an election/electing a group taking time 20:06 <+psema4> chaired by 6 people - is that a rotating chair then? 20:07 <+svulliez> I think it's a limited term committee 20:07 <+haroldgraphene> Seconded!!! 20:07 <@SeanHunt> psema4: Excellent point. The motion is actually out of order since the motion, as written, specifies to have 6 chairs. 20:07 <@SeanHunt> JakeDaynes: Am I correct that you wanted 6 members with the members and chair elected by the membership? 20:07 <+JakeDaynes> correct 20:07 <+JakeDaynes> my bad - was on the phone 20:07 <+svulliez> I think it may be best to elect the chair of the committee, and appoint 3 in the meeting, one on each board as hunt originally suggested 20:08 <@SeanHunt> Ok. 20:08 -SeanHunt:#canada- The question is on the amendment proposed by JakeDaynes to strike everything from "chaired" to "EB" inclusive and insert "consisting of at least 6 members appointed by this meeting" 20:08 <+haroldgraphene> seconded. 20:09 -SeanHunt:#canada- If adopted, the motion will read "that a special committee be formed to study the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the August GM. 20:09 <@SeanHunt> " 20:10 <+JakeDaynes> Any seconds? 20:10 <@SeanHunt> It has been seconded. 20:10 <+JakeDaynes> ok - just wanted to make sure you took harold's because it was before your last post 20:10 <+Rintaran> I have no objections to that amendment. 20:10 -SeanHunt:#canada- is there any debate? 20:11 <+svulliez> So we'd appoint six people within the timeframe of this meeting? 20:11 <@SeanHunt> Yes. The chair would also be elected by this meeting. 20:11 < Minkowski> Let's do it 20:11 <+Sqratz__> Would the people appointed have the opportunity to opt out? 20:11 <@SeanHunt> Seeing no debate, I'll put the amendment to a vote. 20:12 <@SeanHunt> Yes, we cannot force someone to take a position. 20:12 <+JakeDaynes> (Sqratz__ yes) 20:12 -SeanHunt:#canada- The question is on the amendment proposed by JakeDaynes to strike everything from "chaired" to "EB" inclusive and insert "consisting of at least 6 members appointed by this meeting" 20:12 -SeanHunt:#canada- The main question is that a special committee be formed to study the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, chaired by the President, consisting of 3 members appointed by this meeting and one appointed by each of the PC and the EB, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the August GM. 20:12 -SeanHunt:#canada- If this amendment is adopted, it will be that a special committee be formed to study the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the August GM. 20:13 <+svulliez> I'm not sure that we're going to have 6 willing and able people in this meeting for this committee tbh 20:13 <@SeanHunt> ampersand Christoph Drastik gregwadden JakeDaynes jlamothe JohannWeiss lcameron McGrath MononcQc phillipsjk psema4 Rintaran RLim SilverSlimer Sqratz__ svulliez teamcoltra Wilson haroldgraphene 20:13 < DarkNyan> That sucks. 20:13 <+JohannWeiss> aye 20:13 <+Rintaran> aye 20:13 <+gregwadden> abstain 20:13 <+JakeDaynes> aye 20:13 -SeanHunt:#canada- All in favor plesae say aye; all opposed please say nay. 20:13 <+MononcQc> aye. 20:13 <+Sqratz__> aye 20:13 < DarkNyan> Abstain 20:13 <+jlamothe> aye 20:13 <+haroldgraphene> aye 20:13 <+psema4> abstain 20:13 <+Wilson> abstain 20:14 <+Christoph> aye 20:14 <+McGrath> Aye 20:14 <+svulliez> aye 20:14 <+RLim> aye 20:15 <+phillipsjk> aye 20:15 <+RLim> DarkNyan you are not voiced. Please msg SeanHunt so that your vote willg et counted 20:15 -SeanHunt:#canada- The ayes have it and the motion is adopted. 20:15 -SeanHunt:#canada- The question is now on the motion that a special committee be formed to study the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the August GM. 20:16 <@SeanHunt> Rintaran has the floor 20:16 <+Rintaran> I move that the motion be amended to add "roles and duties of the Executive Board and the Political Board in" after "..be formed to study..." 20:16 <@SeanHunt> Is there a second? 20:16 <+Christoph> second 20:16 <@SeanHunt> Okay. 20:16 <+gregwadden> seconded 20:16 <@SeanHunt> The quesiton is now on the motion that the main question be amended as described 20:17 -SeanHunt:#canada- The question is now on the motion that the main question be amended as described 20:17 -SeanHunt:#canada- If the amendment is adopted, the main question will be that that a special committee be formed to study the roles and duties of the Executive Board and the Political Council in the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the August GM. 20:17 <+RLim> discussion? 20:17 <+svulliez> I don't like this amendment, because there are issues with the constitution that go a little further than the roles of those bodies 20:17 -SeanHunt:#canada- is there any debate? 20:17 <+JakeDaynes> I think that it would be better to keep the scope of the motion open 20:18 <+RLim> yeah it kind of restrict it to just amending the roles of EB and PC 20:18 <+JakeDaynes> they can certainly look into the roles and duties while looking at the rest of the constitution 20:18 <+Rintaran> I fear a thorough look at the entirety of the constitution will greatly inhibit providing meaningful recommendations within a month. 20:19 <+JakeDaynes> 2 months 20:19 <+Rintaran> By breaking it up into smaller chunks along the way, it may seve to better focus it. 20:19 <+svulliez> These are only going to be suggestions also, if the committee suggests sweeping changes we can opt to not implement them 20:19 <+svulliez> thats a good point rintaran 20:19 <+Rintaran> According to the notice, the notice of motions would have to come next month. 20:19 <@SeanHunt> Order, can we please have one speaker at a time? Please PM me to get in line. 20:19 <@SeanHunt> Notice of motions need not have the exact details, although it needs to cover all salient points. 20:20 <+svulliez> I might add then, to your motion rintaran "with a focus on resisting kafka-esque bureaucracy" :P 20:20 <+JakeDaynes> or rather, would you be open to tweaking the amendment to give recommendations on those points at the august GM and the rest of them in the September one? 20:21 <+JakeDaynes> to break it up as it were? 20:21 <+RLim> yeah so that we don't have to elect new set of members again 20:22 -SeanHunt:#canada- Is there any further debate or a motion to amend the amendment? I'll note that you can't amend this amendment by trying to change other wording in the motion, that would have to be a separate amendment to the main motion. 20:23 <@SeanHunt> ampersand Christoph Drastik gregwadden JakeDaynes jlamothe JohannWeiss lcameron McGrath MononcQc phillipsjk psema4 Rintaran RLim SilverSlimer Sqratz__ svulliez teamcoltra Wilson haroldgraphene 20:23 -SeanHunt:#canada- The question is now on the motion of amendment as described above. 20:23 -SeanHunt:#canada- If the amendment is adopted, the main question will be that that a special committee be formed to study the roles and duties of the Executive Board and the Political Council in the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the August GM. 20:23 -SeanHunt:#canada- All in favor please say aye, all opposed, please say nay. 20:23 <+psema4> nay 20:23 <+JakeDaynes> nay 20:23 <+JohannWeiss> nay 20:23 <+Rintaran> aye 20:23 <+teamcoltra> nay 20:23 <+gregwadden> aye 20:24 <+MononcQc> abstain 20:24 <+DarkNyan> aye 20:24 <+jlamothe> abstain 20:24 <+RLim> nay 20:24 <+ampersand> nay 20:24 <+Drastik> abstain 20:24 <+Wilson> nay 20:24 <+svulliez> abstain 20:24 <+Christoph> abstain 20:24 * Rintaran shrugs. Can't win'm all. 20:24 <+haroldgraphene> nay 20:24 <+Sqratz__> nay 20:25 <+SilverSlimer> abstain 20:25 -SeanHunt:#canada- The nays have it and the motion is defeated. The question is again on the motion that 20:25 <+RLim> sorry Rintaran, since we can't amend the amendment, I guess it's better to re-amend the main motion 20:25 -SeanHunt:#canada- The nays have it and the motion is defeated. The question is again on the motion that that a special committee be formed to study the new Constitution & Bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the August GM. 20:25 <+JakeDaynes> I motion to amend the main question as such: that a special committee be formed to study the roles and duties of the Executive Board and the Political Council in the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at  least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a report on the duties of the political council and executive board at the August GM with a further report on the res 20:26 <@SeanHunt> JakeDaynes: You got cut off. 20:26 <+JakeDaynes> I did? 20:26 <+MononcQc> amend it with the cut! 20:26 <+JakeDaynes> shows up for me... 20:26 <@SeanHunt> Also, I'm going to impose a speaker's list on the main motion now. I will not accept a motion unless you have been recognized; please PM me to get in line. 20:26 <+RLim> cut off here 20:26 <+Rintaran> You cut at "with a further report on the res" 20:26 <@SeanHunt> You were cut off at "on the res" 20:26 <@SeanHunt> I recognize JakeDaynes. 20:26 <+psema4> ^ 20:27 <+JakeDaynes> ...further report on the rest of the constitution & bylaws at the September GM. 20:27 <+Rintaran> I second the motion. 20:27 -SeanHunt:#canada- It has been moved and seconded to substitute "that a special committee be formed to study the roles and duties of the Executive Board and the Political Council in the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at  least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a report on the duties of the political council and executive board at the August GM with a further r 20:27 -SeanHunt:#canada- for the pending motion. The question is now on the motion to substitute. Is there any debate? 20:28 <+psema4> yes, your text was also cut off 20:28 <+RLim> cut off again 20:28 <+JakeDaynes> it just doesn't like that word... 20:28 <+Sqratz__> Yeah, you were cut off again. 20:28 <+Christoph> yeah, please re-post 20:28 <@SeanHunt> I should be running a script to avoid that 20:28 <@SeanHunt> It has been moved and seconded to substitute "that a special committee be formed to study the roles and duties of the Executive Board and the Political Council in the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at  least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a report on the duties of the political council and executive board at the August GM with a ... 20:28 <@SeanHunt> ... further report on the rest of the Constitution & Bylaws at the September GM. 20:28 <@SeanHunt> I guess it doesn't like notices 20:29 * psema4 regrets, have to leave the meeting. night all 20:29 -SeanHunt:#canada- Seeing no debate, the question is on the motion to substitute as just described. 20:29 <@SeanHunt> ampersand Christoph Drastik gregwadden JakeDaynes jlamothe JohannWeiss lcameron McGrath MononcQc phillipsjk psema4 Rintaran RLim SilverSlimer Sqratz__ svulliez teamcoltra Wilson haroldgraphene 20:30 -SeanHunt:#canada- All in favor say aye, all opposed say nay. 20:30 <+JakeDaynes> aye 20:30 <+Rintaran> aye 20:30 <+JohannWeiss> nay 20:30 <+jlamothe> abstain 20:30 <+gregwadden> aye 20:30 <+DarkNyan> abstain 20:30 <+haroldgraphene> nay 20:30 <+svulliez> nay 20:30 <+Sqratz__> nay 20:30 <+svulliez> (I like the original motion) 20:30 <+Drastik> nay 20:31 <+RLim> aye 20:31 <+ampersand> nay 20:31 <+MononcQc> abstain 20:31 <+Christoph> nay 20:31 <+haroldgraphene> (I second the original motion) 20:31 <+teamcoltra> nay 20:31 <+Wilson> nay 20:32 -SeanHunt:#canada- I'll remind members to please not qualify their votes in any way. The nays have it and the motion is defeated. The question is again on the motion 20:32 <@SeanHunt> that a special committee be formed to study the new Constitution & Bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the August GM. 20:32 -SeanHunt:#canada- If there is any further debate, please send me a private message to request the floor. 20:33 <+JohannWeiss> I'd like to push the question (we're still on the officers report) 20:33 <@SeanHunt> svulliez: has the floor. 20:33 <+svulliez> I don't think we should spend too much longer on this issue, amendments upon amendments 20:34 <+svulliez> iit's going to become ridiculous 20:34 <+svulliez> as it currently stands it is open, and desirable as it is 20:34 <+Christoph> seconded 20:34 <+svulliez> there are a few amendments in my head, but the process is going to take a long time 20:35 -SeanHunt:#canada- I can't recognize Johann's motion since it was made when he didn't have the floor. 20:35 <+svulliez> I'd like to push the question. 20:35 <+JohannWeiss> seconded 20:35 <+Christoph> thirded 20:35 -SeanHunt:#canada- Is there any objection to proceeding directly to a vote on the main question 20:36 <+haroldgraphene> quadrupled 20:36 <+JakeDaynes> I's in ur meetinz stealinz j00r chairs: All in favor say aye, all opposed say nay 20:36 -SeanHunt:#canada- Seeing no objection, we will now proceed to vote on the main question.l 20:36 <+gregwadden> decorum b, represent 20:36 <+svulliez> he's not going to recognize that :P 20:36 -SeanHunt:#canada- The question is on the motion that a special committee be formed to study the new Constitution & Bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the August GM. 20:37 <@SeanHunt> ampersand Christoph Drastik gregwadden JakeDaynes jlamothe JohannWeiss lcameron McGrath MononcQc phillipsjk psema4 Rintaran RLim SilverSlimer Sqratz__ svulliez teamcoltra Wilson haroldgraphene 20:37 <+JakeDaynes> aye 20:37 <+gregwadden> aye 20:37 <+JohannWeiss> aye 20:37 <+svulliez> aye 20:37 <+phillipsjk> aye 20:37 -SeanHunt:#canada- All in favor please say aye, all opposed please say nay. 20:37 <+MononcQc> aye 20:37 <+haroldgraphene> aye! 20:37 <+jlamothe> aye 20:37 <+Drastik> aye 20:37 <+ampersand> aye 20:37 <+svulliez> (this is a vote to vote... for those not aware) 20:37 aye 20:37 <@SeanHunt> svulliez: It is not. 20:37 <+svulliez> (whoops, sorry) 20:37 aye 20:37 aye 20:37 <+RLim> aye 20:37 aye 20:37 aye 20:37 aye 20:37 aye 20:37 <+Sqratz__> aye 20:37 aye 20:37 aye 20:37 <+teamcoltra> aye 20:37 aye 20:37 <+phillipsjk> aye (revote) 20:37 aye 20:37 <+Christoph> aye 20:37 aye 20:37 <+Rintaran> aye 20:38 aye 20:38 aye 20:38 <+RLim> henriquen please confirm your membership 20:38 < Minkowski> wtf henrique? 20:38 <+McGrath> Aye 20:38 <+Christoph> troll poll 20:38 <+haroldgraphene> kick 20:38 < Minkowski> kick 20:38 <+svulliez> +v 20:38 <+DarkNyan> aye 20:38 <+Wilson> aye 20:39 <+DarkNyan> Restart the poll? 20:39 -SeanHunt:#canada- Not counting our unexpected guest, the ayes have it and the motion is adopted. We will proceed to elect members to the committee. Please request the floor to make nominations and/or speak about them. 20:39 <@SeanHunt> No need to restart; I can count perfectly fine without this guest's interventions. 20:39 <+DarkNyan> Sorry, bad timing :( 20:39 <@SeanHunt> there was not a single vote against in any case. 20:40 <@SeanHunt> You may nominate yourself. 20:40 <+ampersand> I'd like to nominate myself. 20:40 <+JohannWeiss> I'll nominate myself 20:40 <+svulliez> I'd like to nominate Rintaran 20:40 <+JakeDaynes> (I would, but I'm too deep into the new website to be of any major help) 20:40 <+JohannWeiss> I'll also nominate haroldgraphene 20:40 <@SeanHunt> Oh wait, hang on. 20:40 <@SeanHunt> We must first nominate a chairman. 20:41 <+JakeDaynes> I'd like to nominate JohannWeiss as chair, if we will accept the position 20:41 <+RLim> I nominate James Wilson 20:41 -SeanHunt:#canada- We must first nominate a chair. Please submit nominations for chair only. 20:41 <+svulliez> I'd like to Nominate Rintaran 20:41 <+DarkNyan> I'd also like to nominate Rintaran 20:41 <@SeanHunt> JohannWeiss, Rintaran, Wilson: Do you accept? 20:41 <+haroldgraphene> I would also like to nominate Rintaran as chair 20:42 <+Rintaran> Sure... Didn't realize I had this many fans in attendance. 20:42 <+JohannWeiss> I'll decline 20:42 <+svulliez> The silent majority, Rintaran ;) 20:42 <+JohannWeiss> I'm in favor or Rintaran anyway 20:43 <@SeanHunt> Wilson: Do you accept your nomination for chair? 20:43 <+Wilson> i'll also decline. 20:43 <@SeanHunt> Very well 20:43 -SeanHunt:#canada- Shawn Gray (Rintaran) is the only nomination for chair. Are there any other nominations? 20:43 <+RLim> Does Rintaran object? 20:43 <+RLim> sorry missed your comment there Rintaran 20:44 <@SeanHunt> Rintaran accepted 20:44 < iUser> Give me Voice! 20:44 -SeanHunt:#canada- Seeing none, I declare Rintaran, as the only candidate, elected. 20:44 <@SeanHunt> iUser: If you wish to participate as a member, you must log in using the link at the top of the page. 20:44 <+Rintaran> Thank-you everyone for your support. 20:44 <+Christoph> Go get 'em, Tiger. 20:44 -SeanHunt:#canada- We'll now proceed to electing the rest of the committee. Please submit your nominations; we need at lesat 5. 20:45 <+JohannWeiss> Nominate myself and James Wilson 20:45 <+svulliez> I nominate Wilson 20:45 <+svulliez> dang 20:45 <+JakeDaynes> Zing! 20:45 <+Rintaran> I nominate JohannWeiss 20:45 <@SeanHunt> Wilson: Do you accept? 20:45 <+haroldgraphene> I will nominate myself... 20:45 <+Wilson> I'll...accept 20:45 <+JakeDaynes> I nominate gregwadden and SilverSlimer 20:46 <+ampersand> I'd like to nominate my myself. 20:46 <+ampersand> oops. 20:46 -SeanHunt:#canada- current nominees are JohannWeiss, Wilson, SilverSlimer, ampersand, gregwadden, and haroldgraphene 20:46 -SeanHunt:#canada- Any further nominees or discussion? 20:46 <+svulliez> Are there any other newcomers who are interested in that kind of thing.. but perhaps reluctant to speak up? 20:46 <+Christoph> Where did the nomination for gregwadden come from? 20:46 <+JakeDaynes> me 20:46 <+DarkNyan> Don't have the political experience nessacary :( 20:46 <+gregwadden> Thank you Mr. Daynes but I decline. 20:47 <+JakeDaynes> DarkNyan: you don't need political experience 20:47 <@SeanHunt> SilverSlimer: Do you accept your nomination? 20:48 <+JakeDaynes> gregwadden:  just Jake :) 20:48 <+jlamothe> svulliez: I'm interested, but I don't know that I'd have the time it woudl require at the moment. 20:48 <+jlamothe> would* 20:48 <+DarkNyan> Also extremely busy with my open tracker project. 20:48 <+MononcQc> I could be interested but I frankly have no idea what I'd be doing, and thus only interested by curiosity for the time being :B 20:48 <+JohannWeiss> (but you have to be able to tolerate some legalese) 20:48 <+Sqratz__> I'm reluctant. 20:48 <+Sqratz__> But that's mostly due to my complete inability to write, 20:48 <+haroldgraphene> i nominate khoover 20:48 <+khoover> what did i miss? committee for constitution? 20:48 <@SeanHunt> khoover: Correct. 20:48 <+RLim> I nominate Khoover 20:49 <+khoover> when is it planned to have the recommendations back by? and rlim, harold beat you to the punch. 20:49 <+svulliez> I nominate Patrick Fitzgerald 20:49 <@SeanHunt> khoover: that a special committee be formed to study the new Constitution & Bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the August GM. 20:49 <@SeanHunt> no wait, that's the old one 20:49 <@SeanHunt> hang on 20:49 <+svulliez> (CCitizen = Patrick, I think he is afk) 20:50 <@SeanHunt> that a special committee be formed to study the roles and duties of the Executive Board and the Political Council in the new constitution & bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at  least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a report on the duties of the political council and executive board at the August GM with a further report on the rest of the Constitution & ... 20:50 <@SeanHunt> ... Bylaws at the September GM. 20:50 <+Rintaran> Wasn't that amendment defeated? 20:50 <+ampersand> yup 20:50 <+gregwadden> i believe it was 20:50 <+Christoph> old new 20:50 <+svulliez> the old one was correct 20:50 <@SeanHunt> oh ok 20:50 <@SeanHunt> my bad 20:50 <+svulliez> that a special committee be formed to study the new Constitution & Bylaws and report recommendations, consisting of at least 6 members appointed by this meeting, and deliver notice of motions at the July GM followed by a full report at the August GM. 20:50 <@SeanHunt> well don't listen to me ;P 20:51 <+khoover> notice of motions being a formality saying this is on the agenda? 20:51 <@SeanHunt> khoover: It's required to be given a month in advance for amendments to the C&B 20:51 <+khoover> ah, k 20:51 <@SeanHunt> SilverSlimer is not responding and CCitizen is not present, so I will let their nominations stand. If they decline to participate later and bring the committee below the minimum, the positions will be replaced at the next GM 20:51 <+JakeDaynes> SeanHunt: we don't - don't worry 20:51 <@SeanHunt> Still awaiting khoover's response. 20:52 <+khoover> yeah, sure, should be a lot more free to do things in the summer 20:52 <@SeanHunt> The nominees are: JohannWeiss, Wilson, CCitizen, ampersand, haroldgraphene, SilverSlimer, and khoover. 20:52 <+Sqratz__> 7? 20:52 <+JohannWeiss> It's atleast 6 20:52 <@SeanHunt> That's correct. There is no maximum for the size of the committee. 20:53 <+Sqratz__> Good point 20:53 -SeanHunt:#canada- Any further nominations or discussion? 20:53 <+JohannWeiss> nope 20:53 -SeanHunt:#canada- Seeing none, is there any objection to appointing all nominees to the committee? 20:53 <+JohannWeiss> no 20:53 <+teamcoltra> Nope 20:54 <+Rintaran> nope 20:54 <+DarkNyan> Nope. 20:54 <+jlamothe> No. 20:54 <+RLim> none 20:54 <+gregwadden> nar 20:54 <+MononcQc> no 20:54 <+Wilson> nope 20:54 <+Rintaran> Was considering a motion to do just that. lol 20:54 <+Sqratz__> Nope. 20:54 <+svulliez> Sounds good to me :) 20:54 <+Christoph> no 20:54 <+haroldgraphene> Who is nominated? 20:54 <@SeanHunt> Seeing none, I declare the motion adopted. The chair will work with the secretary to get contact information for the members. 20:54 <+DarkNyan> he nominees are: JohannWeiss, Wilson, CCitizen, ampersand, haroldgraphene, SilverSlimer, and khoover. 20:55 <@SeanHunt> and shall call the first meeting forthwith, including the President and Leader or Vice-President and Deputy Leader, depending. 20:55 <@SeanHunt> 21:52:19 <@SeanHunt> The nominees are: JohannWeiss, Wilson, CCitizen, ampersand, haroldgraphene, SilverSlimer, and khoover. 20:55 <@SeanHunt> Next up, unfinished business. 20:55 <@SeanHunt> Is there any objection to me getting the results of the constitution vote at this time? 20:55 <+JohannWeiss> Do it 20:55 <+Sqratz__> Please. 20:57 <@SeanHunt> ++--+--+ 20:57 <@SeanHunt> | vid-88 | vote | COUNT(*) | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> ++--+--+ 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     1 | y    |       50 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     1 | n    |        5 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     1 | a    |        7 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     2 | y    |       55 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     2 | n    |        4 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     2 | a    |        3 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     3 | y    |       55 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     3 | n    |        2 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     3 | a    |        5 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     4 | y    |       53 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     4 | n    |        2 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     4 | a    |        7 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     5 | y    |       47 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     5 | n    |        2 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     5 | a    |       13 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     6 | y    |       48 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     6 | n    |        3 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     6 | a    |       11 | 20:57 <@SeanHunt> |     7 | y    |       48 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |     7 | n    |        1 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |     7 | a    |       13 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |     8 | y    |       45 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |     8 | n    |        3 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |     8 | a    |       14 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |     9 | y    |       49 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |     9 | n    |        3 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |     9 | a    |       10 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |    10 | y    |       46 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |    10 | n    |        5 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |    10 | a    |       11 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |    11 | y    |       51 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |    11 | n    |        4 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> |    11 | a    |        7 | 20:58 <@SeanHunt> ++--+--+ 20:58 <@SeanHunt> I declare each of the amendments adopted. 20:58 <@SeanHunt> If you wish to make a point of order regarding them, now is the time. 20:58 <+KenHoover> what were the votes for, anyway? 20:58 <@SeanHunt> If no one does, then the results will stand unless an irregularity is discovered that would make them null and void. 20:58 < Minkowski> Good 20:59 <+KenHoover> been really outta the loop lately 20:59 <+RLim> constitutional amendments 20:59 <+JohannWeiss> https://www.pirateparty.ca/forum/index.php?topic=1972.0 20:59 <+JohannWeiss> That might not have the updated numbers 21:00 <@SeanHunt> http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/GM_2012-04-18_Proposed_Amendments_to_the_Constitution is the official copy. 21:00 <+KenHoover> thanks, sean 21:00 <@SeanHunt> As I previously informed the party, I now move that the Party accept the resgination of the President. 21:01 <@SeanHunt> Is there a second? 21:01 <+ampersand> seconded 21:01 <+Christoph> (burn) 21:01 <+DarkNyan> Seconded. 21:01 <@SeanHunt> Very well. 21:01 <@SeanHunt> The question is now on the motion that the Party accept the resignation of the President. 21:01 <@SeanHunt> As I cannot preside over this motion and the Vice-President is not here, we will need an alternate chair. 21:02 <@SeanHunt> Is anyone willing to preside? 21:02 <+JohannWeiss> I'll try if non one else feels up to it 21:02 <+RLim> I'll do 21:02 <+JohannWeiss> You take it then 21:02 <+RLim> sorry 21:02 <@SeanHunt> Is there any objection to RLim taking the chair? 21:02 <+jlamothe> Nope. 21:02 <+JohannWeiss> no 21:02 <+JakeDaynes> none 21:03 <@SeanHunt> Very well. 21:03 <@RLim> okay the question is the motion that the Party accept the resignation of the President. 21:03 <@RLim> discussion? 21:03 <+haroldgraphene> I accept. 21:03 <+svulliez> Could you explain why you are resigning, Seanhunt? 21:03 <+Rintaran> That would be beneficial... 21:03 <+KenHoover> ^ what he said 21:03 < SeanHunt> If the chair would give me the floor, gladly :) 21:03 <@RLim> the chair recognizes Sean Hunt 21:03 < SeanHunt> Okay, thank you all. 21:04 < SeanHunt> With the passing of these amendments, particularly amendments #10 and #4, the role of President has been significantly redefined. 21:04 < SeanHunt> While I understand that the work of the new committee---of which I was a member for all of 5 minutes---may change the role in the future, I think that the amendments as they stand deserve consideration for my continuing as the Presidency. 21:05 < SeanHunt> This is not to say that I don't want the job. 21:05 < SeanHunt> In fact, I'm glad to continue in it, if the Party votes against accepting my resignation. 21:05 < SeanHunt> However, given that I'm now in a very differently-natured role than when I was originally elected, and given that a special exception has been made for me in the proviso to amendment #4, I think it appropriate to allow the membership a chance to revisit my Presidency. 21:06 < SeanHunt> I will, of course, continue to contribute to the Party either way. 21:06 < SeanHunt> If this is accepted, Jack McLeod will immediately assume the role of President. 21:06 <+haroldgraphene> I welcome your future contributions :D 21:06 < SeanHunt> I will take questions that fit inside my remaining minute-and-a-bit to talk? 21:07 < Minkowski> Did you learn what burning a CD means? 21:07 <+JakeDaynes> lol 21:07 < Minkowski> cheap shot, sorry 21:07 <+svulliez> burn! 21:07 <+DarkNyan> Do we get cookies? 21:07 <@RLim> ok 21:07 < SeanHunt> Minkowski: Yes. Thankfully. 21:07 < SeanHunt> DarkNyan: Sadly, no :( 21:07 <@RLim> questions? 21:07 <+teamcoltra> Come on guys, this is a serious issue that impacts the future of the party. 21:07 <+teamcoltra> Positively or negatively it does have an impact. 21:07 <+ampersand> You read the votes ahead of time, correct? 21:07 <+JakeDaynes> once 21:08 <+JakeDaynes> (him not me) 21:08 < SeanHunt> If no one objects, I'll answer ampersand's question 21:08 <@RLim> go ahead SeanHunt 21:08 <+SeanHunt> I did indeed read the votes for the vote ahead of the meeting last month. 21:08 <+SeanHunt> I expected that the vote would simply be closed and then I would report the results. 21:09 <+SeanHunt> As I explained in my forum post, that led me to do the reflection leading to my decision to submit the resignation, but did not directly cause it. 21:09 <+SeanHunt> I don't stand by what I did, and there is a reason I waited at this meeting to load the results up 21:09 <+SeanHunt> But that's a separate issue, I feel. 21:09 < Minkowski> Would you be willing to continue work in the party in some other role? 21:10 <+SeanHunt> Minkowski: Of course. I would also be more than cheerful to continue as President. 21:10 <+ampersand> But the vote wasn't closed. As President of the party, you should have known better. That is a seriously wrong thing to do. I'm uncomfortable with you having influence in the councils after this. 21:11 <+Rintaran> Do you feel being in both councils is a hindrance to performing the duties of either? 21:11 <+SeanHunt> Rintaran: No, I do not. 21:11 <+SeanHunt> ampersand: I'll respond to that on my second speaking turn once everyone else has had a chance to speak. 21:11 <+SeanHunt> Rintaran: In fact, the EB and PC have started holding joint meetings. 21:12 <+JakeDaynes> Would you be willing to give up your role as chair(and remain president)? 21:12 <+SeanHunt> JakeDaynes: I cannot. They are one and the same. 21:13 <+JakeDaynes> that solves my vote, thanks :) 21:13 < JMcleod> hey 21:13 < JMcleod> how does login work 21:13 <+SeanHunt> JakeDaynes: May I ask what that is supposed to mean? 21:13 <+haroldgraphene> Derp. 21:14 <@RLim> hey welcome JMcleod 21:14 <@RLim> you want to take over the chair. discussing Sean's resignation right6 now 21:14 < JMcleod> Yeah, late - was my brother's birthday today 21:14 <+JakeDaynes> SeanHunt: I respect the hell out of you, I think you're great for the party, and I think you're a great President for the Party. But I can't stand having you as chair most of the time… It's like watching the same car accident happen over and over again when everybody is in consensus and we have to wait for the bureaucracy to catch up 21:15 < JMcleod> I just got here so maybe for the current question its best to have someone that knows what the hell is going on ;) 21:15 <+JakeDaynes> I understand the need for structure and rules, but when we've got five adults in a chat room, we shouldn't be using RRoO 21:15 <+JakeDaynes> /endrant 21:16 <+ampersand> ^ 21:16 <+SeanHunt> JakeDaynes: Actually, now that I look, it is not specified in the bylaws, so actually a special rule of order could be adopted appointing a separate chair. 21:16 <+SeanHunt> But the default is to have the President as chair. 21:17 <+KenHoover> yeah, was about to mention that 21:17 <+SeanHunt> Now, I'll make a point of order that we shouldn't be discussing without having the floor, since I want this to go reasonably quickly. 21:17 <+Rintaran> Unless one is appointed permanently, that is commonly done first in meetings. 21:17 <+haroldgraphene> Can we move things forward? Take a vote for who doesnt want SeanHunt to resign? 21:17 <@RLim> ok Phillipsjk have a question 21:18 <+phillipsjk> As was mentioned, Sean Hunt peeked at he votes last time. Can we still censure him if he resigns? 21:18 <@RLim> go ahead Phillipsjk 21:18 <@RLim> anyone who wants to spek please msg me 21:18 <+SeanHunt> phillipsjk: I would certainly hope so! 21:20 <@RLim> svulliez is next 21:21 <@RLim> svulliez ping 21:21 <@RLim> 30 seconds and I'll let next speaker go first if you are still preparing 21:21 <+SeanHunt> we adopted a 30 second rule I believe :) 21:21 <+svulliez> alllow someone to go first 21:21 <+svulliez> sorry 21:21 <+svulliez> I thought there was a bigger line :P 21:21 <@RLim> wait 21:22 <@RLim> do you mind to let haroldgraphene go first? he have to leave soon 21:22 <+svulliez> sure 21:22 <@RLim> go ahead haroldgraphene 30 seconds is up anyway. :) 21:22 <+haroldgraphene> Can we move things forward? Take a vote for who doesnt want SeanHunt to resign? 21:22 <+haroldgraphene> I need to leave 21:22 <+haroldgraphene> You guys can sort out disciplinary measures for vote peeking after 21:22 <@RLim> we have 2 speakers in queue 21:23 <+SeanHunt> I'd assume that's a motion for the previous question? 21:23 <+JakeDaynes> I'll be quick 21:23 <+haroldgraphene> Please, thx 21:23 <+KenHoover> could we not just have harold leave a vote behind, and leave? 21:23 <+JMcleod> No we cant do that 21:23 <+KenHoover> ah well 21:23 <+haroldgraphene> Proxying is not allowed :P I will vote to amend that! 21:23 <+haroldgraphene> If I am appointed that is. 21:24 <@RLim> move to previous question all in facor say aye and all against say nay. aye will stop all discussion 21:24 <+KenHoover> D:> oh god, please don't, already trying to compare the new const with old. 21:24 <+haroldgraphene> Anyways, I accept SeanHunts resignation as stated before. 21:24 <@RLim> *favour 21:24 <+haroldgraphene> Later folks 21:24 <+JakeDaynes> nay 21:24 <+JMcleod> nay 21:24 <+jlamothe> abstain 21:24 <+JakeDaynes> (I'd like to make an amendment 21:24 <+JakeDaynes> ) 21:25 <+teamcoltra> aye 21:25 <+SeanHunt> nay 21:25 <+haroldgraphene> aye 21:25 <+Drastik> abstain 21:25 <+Wilson> nay 21:25 <+JohannWeiss> aye 21:25 <+JMcleod> man if sean resigns ill have to make a shitton of scripts because im lazy like that 21:25 <+Rintaran> What is the current question? 21:25 <+adpaolucci> nay 21:25 <+MononcQc> nay 21:25 <+KenHoover> abstain 21:25 <+svulliez> move to vote on the resignation without further discussion Rintaran 21:26 <+Rintaran> nay 21:26 <+svulliez> abstain 21:26 <+gregwadden> abstain 21:26 <+ampersand> aye 21:26 <+Christoph> ate 21:26 <+phillipsjk>  okay the question is the motion that the Party accept the resignation of the President. 21:26 <+Christoph> aye* 21:27 <+JMcleod> (did the 2 minute rule pass?) 21:27 <+phillipsjk> abstain 21:27 <@RLim> sorry JakeDaynes nay have it 21:27 <+JakeDaynes> (come on - quick amendment, I promise) 21:27 <@RLim> JakeDaynes 21:27 <@RLim> go ahead 21:27 <@RLim> svulliez get ready 21:27 <+JakeDaynes> I move to amend the question as follows: to accept/decline sean hunt's resignation with the condition that if it is declined, a special rule of order be put in place prohibiting sean hunt from chairing meetings unless a majority of the meeting quorum makers vote him as chair and that a new permanent GM chair be appointed at the next GM 21:28 <+SeanHunt> A point of order: This motion is out of order as special rules of order cannot be adopted without notice except by a majority vote of the entire membership, and a majority of the membership is not present. 21:28 <+JakeDaynes> I think Hunt is a great president, and I think that the majority of problems have come out of his chair-ness 21:28 <+JakeDaynes> point made for me 21:28 <+SeanHunt> (Not that I'm unwilling to entertain it, but that the rules must be followed) 21:28 <@RLim> ok 21:28 <+svulliez> haha thats silly 21:29 <+svulliez> No need to send that to membership 21:29 <+JohannWeiss> I also don't think you can make motions that specify new rules for specific people 21:29 <+teamcoltra> ^ 21:29 <+svulliez> an all member vote for *that* is a little much 21:29 <+SeanHunt> It's not that it must be sent to the membership, but that the membership must be informed. 21:29 <+SeanHunt> The normal route would be to provide notice and adopt it at a meeting :) 21:29 <+JakeDaynes> I move to amend the question as follows: to accept/decline sean hunt's resignation with the condition that if it is declined, a special rule of order be put in place prohibiting the president from chairing meetings unless a majority of the meeting quorum makers vote him as chair* 21:29 <+SeanHunt> Smae point of order. 21:30 <+JakeDaynes> shoot - didn't paste properly 21:30 <@RLim> ok the chair rules that the point of order is well taken 21:30 <+JakeDaynes> I move to amend the question as follows: to accept/decline sean hunt's resignation with the condition that if it is declined, a special rule of order be put in place, after notice has been sent to membership, as of next GM prohibiting the president from chairing meetings unless a majority of the meeting quorum makers vote him as chair* 21:31 <+SeanHunt> Same point of order. 21:31 <+JakeDaynes> :) 21:31 <+JakeDaynes> gawdamnit. 21:31 <+SeanHunt> The motion as written would simply have delayed effect. 21:31 <+svulliez> I don't think it's worth moving that 21:31 <+KenHoover> SeanHunt, don't make me come to waterloo 21:31 <+svulliez> Best to not waste any more time 21:31 <+Christoph> How can we deny a resignation? We can't FORCE you to do anything you chose not to do... Pirate Party isn't a fascist regime. All of this is more needless bureaucracy. 21:31 <@RLim> ok moving on svulliez 21:31 <+SeanHunt> Christoph: As I said earlier, I'm willing to serve if it's rejected. 21:31 <+teamcoltra> Christoph, I believe the resignation is customary. 21:31 <@RLim> ruled point of order well taken on last one btw 21:31 <+teamcoltra> People called for his resignation, so he submitted it 21:32 <+JMcleod> Well if he wants to stop being president, its his choice 21:32 <@RLim> svulliez turn to speak 21:32 <+svulliez> Sean Hunt committed multiple acts at the last meeting that I find unsuitable for someone in his role, that offend me as both a member of the pirate party, and as another member of the administration. 21:32 <+svulliez> The first is he looked at the results ahead of time, without the consent of anyone else in the party, which is a bad thing. But a forgivable thing. He was preparing the results for the party, and it is worth a censure at best. He meant no harm. However... 21:32 <+Christoph> "I might quit... But I might not ;)" 21:32 <+svulliez>    	 	 	 	 	 	   When it was revealed we were not immediately looking at the results, he did the honourable thing and admitted that he had done it, which I respect immensely, however, once this was clear: something else became clear from his previous actions.  21:32 <+svulliez> Sean Hunt had informed us that if number ten passed he would resign, and from his discussion on number ten it was clear that number ten was currently set to pass. He went further in the meeting, asking people to change their votes with his recommendations in mind.  21:32 <+svulliez> So he peeked at the results, told people to change their results, and that if number ten passed, he would resign. This is something that amounts to holding the party hostage, and is something that shocked me.    21:33 <+svulliez> This is a serious abuse of administrative power. Peeking at results and using his knowledge to change the results is deeply wrong. 21:33 <+svulliez> Sean Hunt is resigning on ideological grounds, but I believe it is appropriate to not allow him in that position on these grounds as well. He is resigning. I think it is silly to have this formality vote in the first place. We should accept his dutiful and appropriate resignation, and welcome him to continue his role in the party. 21:34 <+svulliez> Outside of the presidential role. 21:34 <@RLim> +v JMcleod 21:35 <+svulliez> I'll concede the floor, but I believe this resignation is appropriate and timely. 21:36 <@RLim> anymore speakers before Sean Hunt speaks 21:36 <@RLim> ? 21:37 <@RLim> seeing none. Sean Hunt you have the floor 21:37 <+SeanHunt> to address a few comments: 21:37 <+SeanHunt> The comments about my vote-peeking---that was an honest mistake. I figured there would be no harm from it and it would make the meeting go quicker since I wouldn't need to load up the results in the middle of the meeting. I do not feel that I was trying to unduly influence the results---this is why I did not campaign against the motions once the voting period was extended. I was wrong, and should be dealt with appropriately for ... 21:37 <+SeanHunt> ... that, but I think it's a separate issue. 21:37 <+SeanHunt> Jake's comment about running the meetings was aimed more at the EB/PC meetings, where I have been bad with the rules sometimes, but I've been getting much better I think and I'm getting a feel for what is acceptable in IRC, such as with the rules proposed for today. I have more ideas in store to improve efficiency, but at some point, you must give everyone a fair shake (such as by allowing amendments which can take a while) and that ... 21:37 <+SeanHunt> ... takes time. 21:37 <+SeanHunt> I hope you'll all carefully consider your vote, and certainly not consider this as a motion "he wants to resign therefore I should vote for it." I do not "want to" resign, per se. I am submitting my resignation and letting the Party decide, which should be taken very differently. It is a vote of whether or not you want to continue. I won't be hurt if this motion is adopted, but I would be hurt if it was adopted by people who simply ... 21:38 <+SeanHunt> ... voted yes on the basis that it is a resignation, without carefully reviewing the issues. 21:38 <+SeanHunt> Based on some comments I've had in PM, I want to reiterate one thing: This resignation is in no way related to my conduct with the vote, and I don't think it be construed as such. It is related to the changed definition of President. I hope that there will be a motion of censure, or even to remove me from office, at some point, related to that conduct, but again, I feel that that is a separate issue. 21:39 <+SeanHunt> questions? 21:39 <+Christoph> Yes, why are you being a diva? 21:39 <+Christoph> A resignation is voluntary. 21:40 <+Christoph> Don't offer one if you do not want to resign. 21:40 <+phillipsjk> Yes, what roles do you hold other than president? 21:40 <+gregwadden> I don't believe the president should have to respond to ad hominem remarks 21:40 <+ampersand> Why did you say you'd resign over amendment 10 and four? If you don't want to quit, it insinuates you were just holding the amendments hostage, as it were. 21:40 <+Rintaran> He's currently on the political board as well. 21:40 <+SeanHunt> Christoph: A resignation has two parts. The first part is me submitting it, the second is the Party deciding whether to accept it. They are two separate things that should be considered separately. 21:41 <+SeanHunt> phillipsjk: I am a member of the Political Council. I am also the chair of a special committee of PC. I have no other roles. 21:41 <+ampersand> Seems very inappropriate. 21:41 <+SeanHunt> ampersand: I was faced with a difficult choice. 21:41 <+SeanHunt> ampersand: On the one hand, I could have simply remained mum, and surprised everyone at this meeting with my resignation. 21:42 <+SeanHunt> ampersand: On the other hand, I could have informed the membership and thus possibly coloured the matter somewhat 21:42 <@RLim> He is also our agent 21:42 <+SeanHunt> RLim: Ah, yes, thank you, I had forgotten. 21:42 <+SeanHunt> I am a registered agent of the Party. 21:43 <+JMcleod> Sean is an official agent, as well as having access to most of our backend 21:43 <+SeanHunt> ampersand: After carefully weighing the information I had available, including the vote counts that I had seen, I decided that it would likely cause less damage for me to come clean. 21:43 <+SeanHunt> JMcleod: That was as a consequence of being on the IT Committee, which was, until recently, a side effect of being President. 21:44 <@RLim> any more questions or discussions? 21:44 <+ampersand> I don't feel like you're addressing my point. It's great you came clean. You then acted like a child. It seems more like you're rage quitting over not getting your way. It's not the way a person in control of the party should be acting. 21:45 <+KenHoover> guys, we may have a mild problem with amendment 2, as regards GMs 21:45 <+Christoph> How much confidence could we possibly have in someone who threatens resignation? 21:45 <+ampersand> ^^ 21:45 <+SeanHunt> I don't feel that I am threatening it. I tried hard to avoid it being a threatening matter. 21:45 <+gregwadden> lots, in offering resignation when asked it shows integrity 21:45 <+teamcoltra> ^ 21:46 <+Christoph> You didn't get your way, so you are quitting. 21:46 <+SeanHunt> Perhaps I failed. 21:46 <+SeanHunt> No, I am not quitting. 21:46 <+SeanHunt> I'm offering you the chance to have me removed. 21:46 <+Christoph> There shouldn't even be a "vote to accept resignation". As far as I am concerned, you resigned when you sent that message. 21:46 <+SeanHunt> If I was quitting, I would have said "accept this resignation or I'll just quit the party" 21:46 <+Christoph> "I might break up with you, but I might not..." 21:47 < Brendan> Why not just do a Vote of No Confidence? 21:47 < Brendan> one does not vote for a resignation. 21:47 <+Christoph> Can we vote already? 21:47 <+teamcoltra> I think the people speaking out against this haven't seen the real world much. It's very customary to offer a resignation 21:47 <@RLim> ok, to move things along please limit comments and questions to new subject 21:47 <+teamcoltra> to avoid a vote of no confidence 21:47 <@RLim> sorry go ahead teamcoltra 21:47 <+teamcoltra> no that was about it 21:47 <+teamcoltra> that i 21:47 < Minkowski> are we ready to vote? 21:47 <+teamcoltra> .. 21:48 <+teamcoltra> That it's normal to issue a resignation offer, and let people vote on it.. instead of making them vote for no confidence 21:48 <+teamcoltra> it's actually nobel in the real world 21:48 <+teamcoltra> done 21:48 <+JakeDaynes> noble* 21:48 <+Christoph> Well, whatever you want to call it, it has the same outcome - let's do it. 21:48 <+ampersand> No, look, he said he'd resign if specific motions passed, and then attempted to sway others votes. That is not noble 21:48 <+teamcoltra> wait 21:49 <+ampersand> sorry, I'll leave it at that. 21:49 <+SeanHunt> point of order: can we please follow the floor rules for debate? 21:49 <+teamcoltra> I believe this should be a secret ballot 21:49 <+SeanHunt> so as to ensure that it ends on time. 21:49 <@RLim> the question is on the motion that the Party accept the  resignation of the President 21:49 <@RLim> all in favour says aye and all oppose say nay 21:49 <+teamcoltra> If Sean is voted against, but succeeds in keeping his position, it could bias him 21:49 <+Christoph> aye 21:49 * JMcleod RLim, adpaolucci , ampersand , Christoph , DarkNyan , Drastik , gregwadden , JakeDaynes , jlamothe , JMcleod , JohannWeiss , KenHoover , lcameron , MononcQc , phillipsjk , psema4 , Rintaran , SeanHunt , SilverSlimer , Sqratz__ , svulliez , teamcoltra , Wilson 21:50 <+SeanHunt> point of order, I believe that teamcoltra is seeking the floor 21:50 <+phillipsjk> Point of oder: didn't was already vote on that? 21:50 <+Christoph> aye 21:50 <+JMcleod> nay 21:50 <@RLim> how many seconds 21:50 <+JohannWeiss> aye 21:50 <@RLim> ? 21:50 <+Rintaran> nay 21:50 <+SeanHunt> so it is inappropriate to put the question. 21:50 <+adpaolucci> nay 21:50 <+JakeDaynes> aye 21:50 <+SilverSlimer> abstain - i don't know him well 21:50 <+Wilson> nay 21:50 <+teamcoltra> nay 21:50 <+gregwadden> nay 21:50 <+KenHoover> abstain, missed everything that's been happening lately 21:50 <+ampersand> aye 21:50 <+MononcQc> abstain 21:50 <+SeanHunt> well, if we're voting, I abstain, naturally. 21:51 <+svulliez> aye 21:51 <+phillipsjk> abstain 21:51 <+svulliez> This is why they have a secret ballot, I know people are hesitant to show a lack of support 21:52 <+teamcoltra> I really don't consider this vote to be valid 21:52 <+Sqratz__> nay 21:52 <@RLim> ok 21:52 <+svulliez> Perhaps the vote should have been more effectively interrupted 21:52 <+svulliez> now the people caught voting yes are in a sticky situation 21:52 <@RLim> chair recognize teamcoltra. sorry 21:52 <+teamcoltra> It's too late really 21:52 <+Christoph> I agree with svulliez 21:53 <+teamcoltra> as svulliez said 21:53 <+SeanHunt> point of order, mr. chair: Was the vote valid? 21:53 <+JMcleod> Kinda late to say no 21:53 < CCitizen> Hey 21:53 <+svulliez> It's clear he is saying no by recognizing teamcoltra 21:54 <+SeanHunt> svulliez: I would like a firm answer. 21:54 <+svulliez> It's not fair to put ric on the spot like that, when you know the rules are clear 21:54 <@RLim> teamcoltra says wait before I called the vote and I should have recognize him 21:54 <+SeanHunt> Ok. 21:54 <+teamcoltra> yes, but you didn't 21:54 <+teamcoltra> so the vote went forward 21:54 <+SeanHunt> teamcoltra: is that an appeal? ;) 21:54 <+Rintaran> point of order, teamcoltra was not recognized as having the floor when the vote was called as per the amendments on meetings we accepted earlier. 21:55 <+Rintaran> As such, he did not have the floor, and we should just move along... 21:55 <+SeanHunt> I believe the chair ruled that the vote was not valid and that teamcoltra has the floor with the qustion pending. 21:55 <@RLim> yes 21:55 <+teamcoltra> So do I have the floor? 21:56 <@RLim> yes go ahead teamcoltra 21:56 <+teamcoltra> I believe that this vote should be valid, as I was not recognized and our constitution has nothing written in it about secret ballot vs non secret ballot. However, I would just like to point out my frustration to the chair for not htinking about this sooner 21:57 <+teamcoltra> Votes which are done on a person, are traditionally always done secretly 21:57 <+teamcoltra> yield 21:58 * Rintaran sighs as it becomes obvious that the first order of new business is not something he will be able to stick around for, even though he's supposed to present it. 21:58 <@RLim> any more discussion? 21:58 <+JMcleod> infighting brings discontent, discontent leads to waste of time 21:58 * Rintaran also makes it known that svulliez will present it in his stead as he must depart. 21:58 <+JMcleod> waste of time lowers participation 21:58 <+JohannWeiss> ^ yup 21:58 <+JMcleod> low participation stops any kind of momentum we can gain as a party 21:58 <+svulliez> Agreed, the forwarding of this resignation was a waste of time. 21:59 <+JMcleod> In short: Quit wasting my time. 21:59 * Rintaran wishes everyone a good night and looks forward to reading the remainder of the transcript tomorrow. 22:00 <+SilverSlimer> good night 22:00 <+KenHoover> see ya, rin 22:00 <+JMcleod> Sean was validly voted on to be President for 1 year. In the past 3 months, this is the 2nd vote on this bullshit. Its getting annoying. 22:00 <+JohannWeiss> Hunt instigated this though 22:01 <@RLim> since the previous votes was ruled out of order we'll call for the vote if there are no more amendments or discussions 22:01 <+svulliez> JMcleod: He submitted his own resignation, the last was someone who was so frustrated he ended up leaving 22:01 <+svulliez> IIRC 22:01 <+SeanHunt> all offtopic discussion should not be here but in #canada-riffraff 22:01 <@RLim> the question is on the motion that the Party accept the   resignation of the President 22:02 <+JMcleod> I know, but still - The exec board should accept his resignation first 22:02 <+teamcoltra> RLim however, now people have left who had valid votes in the previous vote. Is it your intention to revote? If so are we going to recognize Rintaran's vote which he clearly stated he felt should be upheld 22:02 <+JMcleod> ok spamming all names and lets revote. 22:02 <@RLim> or someone want to make a motion to have a secret vote 22:02 * JMcleod RLim, adpaolucci , ampersand , Christoph , DarkNyan , Drastik , gregwadden , JakeDaynes , jlamothe , JMcleod , JohannWeiss , KenHoover , lcameron , MononcQc , phillipsjk , psema4 , SeanHunt , SilverSlimer , Sqratz__ , svulliez , teamcoltra , Wilson 22:02 <+svulliez> I'd like to motion to a secret vote 22:02 <@RLim> which was the intent before I interrupted it by mistake 22:02 <+Christoph> secret vote please 22:03 < Minkowski> How exactly are we to verify the outcome of a secret vote conducted online? 22:03 <+svulliez> teamcoltra: if we accepted absentee voting (which is forbidden by RROO) we could accept rintarans 22:03 <+JohannWeiss> Yeah, as much as I'd like a secret vote, we don't have the tools right now 22:03 <+SeanHunt> RLim: I move the previous question. 22:03 <+Christoph> And Harold's 22:03 <+teamcoltra> I see any further votes as fruit of the poisonous tree 22:03 <+svulliez> Ric Lim can collect the votes in secret himself, can he not? 22:04 <+gregwadden> makes sense, someone has to do it, should probably be the chair. 22:04 <+JMcleod> I do not wish to give my vote to a 3rd party, secret ballots are meant to be secret, not entrusted to 1 person 22:04 <@RLim> any second to svulliez 22:04 <+JohannWeiss> Guys, help out the chair here 22:05 <+SeanHunt> ^ shut up 22:05 <+JohannWeiss> The vote has been pushed by hunt 22:05 < Minkowski> I think RLim is trustworthy 22:05 <+JMcleod> No, I do not trust RLim for that. 22:05 <+JohannWeiss> This discussion about secret votes can go to the riffraff 22:05 <+jlamothe> I don't know RLim well enough to give that trust. 22:05 <+JakeDaynes> SUGGESTION!SUGGESTION!SUGGESTION!SUGGESTION!SUGGESTION!SUGGESTION!SUGGESTION!SUGGESTION!SUGGESTION! 22:05 <+jlamothe> Not that I have any particular reason to distrust. 22:06 <+JakeDaynes> I can quickly setup Rate in Drupal, and PM everybody here with voice a username and password that they can then use to vote? 22:06 <+JMcleod> How are we to know that the data wont be logged 22:06 <+Wilson> and we started off this meeting so well... :( 22:06 <+teamcoltra> So we pass the trust from RLim to JMcleod ? 22:06 <+teamcoltra> err from RLim to JakeDaynes 22:06 <@RLim> move on previous question. all in favor says aye and all oppose says nay, aye we'll proceed to vote, nay we'll continue motion and discussion 22:06 <+JohannWeiss> This is not the time and place to create a way to vote secretly 22:06 <+JMcleod> No, if you give it to me, I tell everyone each vote 22:06 <+SeanHunt> aye 22:07 <+JMcleod> nay 22:07 <+KenHoover> aye 22:07 <+svulliez> aye 22:07 <+teamcoltra> nay 22:07 <+JakeDaynes> aye 22:07 <+Sqratz__> abstain 22:07 <+JohannWeiss> aye 22:07 <+Wilson> aye 22:07 <+gregwadden> abstain 22:07 <+jlamothe> What exactly is the motion, I didn't catch it. 22:07 <+SeanHunt> <@RLim> move on previous question. all in favor says aye and all oppose says nay, aye we'll proceed to vote, nay we'll continue motion and discussion 22:07 <@RLim> move to previous question meaning stop all motions and discussion 22:07 <+JakeDaynes> but what exactly is the motion? 22:07 <+Christoph> So we're voting to discuss more? 22:08 <+jlamothe> aye 22:08 <+JakeDaynes> ah 22:08 <+Christoph> OH! 22:08 <+teamcoltra> I have an objection to this vote, as a whole. The vote has been tainted. You cannot simply revote on it because as I said before it is Fruit of the poisonous tree. 22:08 <+Christoph> aye 22:08 <@RLim> if nay wins we'll discuss more if not we vote as before 22:08 <+svulliez> voting aye means we get the vote done and move on 22:09 <@RLim> ayes have it 22:09 <+JMcleod> Point of order - We are a official federal party. We need time to create a system that can be guaranteed to be safe, secure and secret. That means we have to build it and have it validated by a 3rd party firm that is in no way attached to the party and has the legal credentials to deem it trustworthy. Therefor the secret vote must wait. 22:09 <@RLim> all in favour says aye and all oppose say nay 22:09 <+JMcleod> There is nothing to vote on, this is a point of order 22:10 <@RLim> wrong paste 22:10 <+teamcoltra> JMcleod I believe this is another (undemocratic) public vote 22:10 <+svulliez> I feel sufficiently disenfranchised, how about all of you? 22:10 <+ampersand> Very much so. 22:10 <+Christoph> Severely. 22:10 <+svulliez> :P Fun stuff. 22:10 <+SilverSlimer> wow, you guys are reminding me of the shitty soccer team i helped turn into a near-champion. 22:11 <+JohannWeiss> Well then get moving coach SilverSlimer 22:11 <+JakeDaynes> I think I saw that movie... 22:11 <+JMcleod> Well you got till 2015 to get us in the opposition 22:11 <+JMcleod> until then, bear with us :D 22:11 <+teamcoltra> Order. 22:11 <+SilverSlimer> perhaps, rather than try to seem more professional, the party should take a back to basics approach 22:11 <+MononcQc> You can do something safe and secure and secret without a thrid party. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punchscan and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prêt_à_Voter 22:11 <+Christoph> @silverslimer Did their coach threaten to resign when they didn't get their way? 22:11 <@RLim> the question is on the motion to accept the president's resignation. all in favour says aye, all oppose say nay 22:11 <+JMcleod> How do we know it is safe and secure, is there a firm that validates it? 22:11 <@RLim> let's get this over with 22:11 -SeanHunt:#canada- <@RLim> the question is on the motion to accept the president's resignation. all in favour says aye, all oppose say nay 22:11 <+JohannWeiss> aye 22:12 <+KenHoover> VOTE TIME 22:12 <+SilverSlimer> christoph: yes, often 22:12 <+JakeDaynes> aye 22:12 <+Drastik> aye 22:12 <+JMcleod> nay 22:12 <+KenHoover> abstain 22:12 <+teamcoltra> nay 22:12 <+Christoph> aye 22:12 <+Wilson> nay 22:12 * JMcleod RLim, adpaolucci , ampersand , Christoph , DarkNyan , Drastik , gregwadden , JakeDaynes , jlamothe , JMcleod , JohannWeiss , KenHoover , lcameron , MononcQc , phillipsjk , psema4 , SeanHunt , SilverSlimer , Sqratz__ , svulliez , teamcoltra , Wilson 22:12 <+MononcQc> abstain 22:12 <+ampersand> Aye. 22:12 <+svulliez> aye 22:12 <+jlamothe> abstain 22:12 <+SilverSlimer> christoph: i made life easier for the coach and listened to the players. when they were babies, i told them. when the coach was unreasonable, i explained to him why 22:12 <+adpaolucci> nay 22:12 <+SilverSlimer> abstain 22:12 <+Sqratz__> nay 22:12 <+SilverSlimer> the problem i see with the pirate party right now is that it's trying to figure out what it is 22:13 <+Christoph> save it, we're voting 22:13 <@RLim> ok done 22:13 <+svulliez> #canada-riffraff 22:13 <+CCitizen> aye 22:14 < Minkowski> :O 22:15 <+gregwadden> abstain 22:15 <+SeanHunt> Would the chair please announce the result of the vote? 22:16 <@RLim> 6 ayes I got 7 ayes and 5 nays with 4 abstain 22:16 <@RLim> *7 ayes 22:16 <@RLim> just to verify 22:17 <+KenHoover> yep 22:17 <+SeanHunt> point of order: CCitizen's vote was after the deadline. It was 6-5, with the chair having the ability to vote against and defeat the motion. 22:17 <+teamcoltra> There were 6 ayes 22:17 <+teamcoltra> as SeanHunt stated 22:18 <+svulliez> point of order: He was working on registering with sb at the time, and I would argue he has a right to have is vote counted, although I suppose it's not worth a significant debate 22:18 <@RLim> ayes: JohannWeiss, JakeDaynes, Drastik, Christoph, ampersand, svulliez 22:19 <@RLim> nays: JMcleod,teamcoltra, wilson, adpaolucci, sqratz; abstain: kenhoover, monoqc, jlamothe, silverstream 22:19 <+SeanHunt> and the chair? 22:20 <+jlamothe> RLim: I'm pretty sure I abstained. 22:20 <+JMcleod> he wrote you as abstain 22:20 <+JMcleod> read the whole line 22:20 <+KenHoover> he put abstain after sqratz 22:20 <+jlamothe> Indeed. 22:20 <+jlamothe> Appologies. 22:20 <+svulliez> I believe it's unfair to put Rlim on the spot like that, especially considering CCitizen's vote that can't be counted 22:21 <+teamcoltra> svulliez neither can rins 22:21 <+teamcoltra> who voted in favour 22:21 <@RLim> the chair decides not to vote 22:21 <+teamcoltra> errr against 22:21 <+SeanHunt> And the motion? 22:22 <+JohannWeiss> teamcoltra: HaroldGraphene also wanted to vote but had to leave, like rin 22:22 <@RLim> the motion to accept the president's resignation. 22:22 <@RLim> is accepted 22:22 <+RLim> JMcleod take over the chair if you want 22:22 <+SeanHunt> May I have the floor? 22:22 <@JMcleod> Hi 22:23 <@JMcleod> Go ahead Sean 22:23 <+SeanHunt> I give notice that I intend, at the next meeting of the Party, to hold an election for Vice-President. 22:23 <@JMcleod> Rejected. 22:24 <+teamcoltra> I don't think you can reject it. It's a notice, since there is no VP right now 22:24 <@JMcleod> wrong 22:24 <@JMcleod> I am VP 22:24 <+SeanHunt> No, you are president. 22:24 <+teamcoltra> No you are now president 22:24 <+KenHoover> JMcleod, you're now president, given sean's out 22:24 <@JMcleod> I am taking over president temporarily. 22:24 <+Wilson> lol congrats? 22:24 <+teamcoltra> JMcleod are you planning on holding an election for your position then? 22:24 <+teamcoltra> There is nothing temporary about your title 22:24 <+teamcoltra> your the dude 22:25 <+teamcoltra> you're* 22:25 <@JMcleod> 2secs 22:25 <+SilverSlimer> congratulations jmcleod 22:26 <@JMcleod> Is there an updated version of the constitution 22:26 <+teamcoltra> lol let's wait to find out if he accepts the position now that he knows what he is getting himself into 22:26 <+teamcoltra> ;) 22:26 <+teamcoltra> (but seriously congrats) 22:27 Sounds like i missed something important tonight. 22:27 <+svulliez> The only extra role the VP had in the constitution was "take over for president" haha :) 22:27 <@JMcleod> RRONR states that vice-president steps up to replace temporarily until a vote is held - so just wanna see if our constitution actually promotes. 22:27 <+SeanHunt> If it's not in the constitution, it's definitely in RONR. 22:27 <@JMcleod> Take over for does not mean become president 22:27 <+SeanHunt> I can provide a citation, but let's move on 22:27 <+SeanHunt> I believe svulliez has a motion. 22:27 <+KenHoover> If i may, I'd like to move to suspend implementing Amendment #2 of the proposed (listed at http://wiki.pirateparty.ca/index.php/GM_2012-04-18_Proposed_Amendments_to_the_Constitution#Amendment_.232) due to an error in the wording of it's modification to "Section V. General Meetings" 22:28 <+KenHoover> It says to replace the first paragraph: 22:28 <+KenHoover> The Party shall hold regular general meetings monthly at a time and place fixed by special rule of order. 22:28 <+KenHoover> with this: 22:29 <+KenHoover> Special general meetings may be called with at least three days notice either by the Executive Board or Political Council with a two-thirds vote, or by the President upon presentation to him or her a petition of at least fifteen members of the Party. 22:29 <+KenHoover> believe it's just a typo, but it'd set precedent if we overrode it. 22:29 <+SeanHunt> We cannot suspend a clause in the constitution. The only thing we can do is reconsider the vote, which would undo it and leave the motion pending. 22:29 <+Christoph> Oh god no. 22:30 <@JMcleod> Hold on: With the exception of the Leader and Deputy Leader, the officers shall each be elected by a general meeting and serve until the first regular general meeting one year or more after their election, or until their successors are elected - I was elected vice-president, not president. 22:30 <+Christoph> It is much too late for this. Goodnight. 22:30 <+phillipsjk> Can tel tell the constitutional committee to review the issue? 22:30 <+teamcoltra> phillipsjk only if you move to reconsider 22:30 <+teamcoltra> from what I understand 22:30 <+svulliez> Yes, let's do that phillipsjk 22:30 <+svulliez> The const. committee can handle that problem 22:30 <@JMcleod> Is the constitutional comittee still existant or was it dissolved^ 22:30 <+svulliez> we made a new one earlier tonight 22:31 <+SeanHunt> Page 458, lines 8-13. "In case of the resignation or death of the president, the vice-president (if there is only one) or the firs t vice-president (if there are more than one) automatically becomes president for the unexpired term, unless the bylaws /expressly/ provide otherwise for filling a vacancy /in the office of president/. 22:31 <+svulliez> JMcleod: are you chair? I'd like to present Rintaran's motion 22:31 <+JakeDaynes> Can we not meet in three days to handle the constitution issue? President is here, 15 members are here? 22:32 <@JMcleod> Ok lets keep this going. 22:32 <@JMcleod> Go ahead Shawn 22:32 <+svulliez> Rintaran made this, but I support it: 22:32 <+svulliez> I move that a full financial report, including a statement of financial position, a statement of comprehensive income (aka P&L report), 22:33 <+svulliez> a statement of changes in equity, and a statement of cash flows from the Pirate Party of Canada Fund to be posted publicly in the forums and on the Wiki before July 4th (2-weeks), with a presentation at July's GM to address any concerns or discrepencies. 22:33 <+svulliez> General requests have been made over the course of the past year for this information to be disclosed, with only a brief, incomplete, 22:33 <+svulliez> draft report having been issued while repeated promises of a complete financial disclosure continue to be made without one ever being issued. 22:33 <+svulliez> Previously, no motion has officially been made, and no timeline put in place for the disclosure of this information. This has been used as the excuse 22:33 <+svulliez> for failing to issue something that is required to be done annually. Non-profits have no issues publishing theirs, and as a political party espousing transparency, we should be just as visible. 22:34 <+svulliez> he annual tax filings through Revenue Canada, and the report to Elections Canada, which requires this information, have already passed. 22:34 <+svulliez> This means the information is already present and merely needs to be formatted into a readable format. Two weeks should be more than sufficient to provide 22:34 <+svulliez> a complete rendering of the information that we have been requesting for the past 12+ months. 22:34 <+svulliez> As the Pirate Party of Canada Fund is responsible for the fiscal well-being of the Pirate Party of Canada, it is imperative that this 22:34 <+svulliez> information be presented to the membership so that we can make educated judgements on the prior and future usage of party funds. 22:34 <+svulliez> 22:35 <+KenHoover> I second the motion. 22:35 <+JakeDaynes> I also support this - and would like to take a minute to discuss it 22:35 <+phillipsjk> there is a typo as "he annual filings through ..." 22:36 <@JMcleod> What is a P&L report? 22:36 <+KenHoover> profits and losses, i presume? 22:37 <+gregwadden> ^ this 22:37 <@JMcleod> Can we get a confirmation of that before I rule it in order? 22:37 <+KenHoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_statement 22:37 <+KenHoover> Income statement (also referred to as profit and loss statement (P&L), 22:38 <+gregwadden> A financial statement that summarizes the revenues, costs and expenses incurred during a specific period of time - usually a fiscal quarter or year. These records provide information that shows the ability of a company to generate profit by increasing revenue and reducing costs. The P&L statement is also known as a "statement of profit and loss" 22:38 <@JMcleod> ok thanks :) 22:38 <+JakeDaynes> Stephane Bakhos has stepped down as director of the fund, and in his place, RLim, CCitizen and Myself have taken on the positions of directors. Currently we're waiting for the paperwork to reach industry Canada and for Stephane to provide authorizations to the Bank of Montreal in order for the three of us to have access to the bank records. 22:38 <@JMcleod> The question is on the motion that a full financial report, including a statement of financial position, a statement of comprehensive income (aka P&L report) a statement of changes in equity, and a statement of cash flows from the Pirate Party of Canada Fund to be posted publicly in the forums and on the Wiki before July 4th (2-weeks), with a presentation at July's GM to address any concerns or di 22:39 <@JMcleod> discrepencies. 22:39 <@JMcleod> JakeDaynes has floor (irc sucks for all this) 22:39 <+KenHoover> I move to open free debate on the topic, then. 22:40 <@JMcleod> It was moved to free debate on the topic 22:40 <@JMcleod> Anyone oppose that^ 22:40 <+JakeDaynes> Essentially I just wanted to make everybody aware of the situation as it is currently - once the three of us have access to the bank records - I will prepare the information within 3 days - and I hope that everybody votes aye to this 22:41 <+gregwadden> How long do you expect it to take before you get access? 22:41 <@JMcleod> No opposition, so we can have a free debate for 5 minutes 22:42 <+JakeDaynes> gregwadden: That all depends on Stephane replying to my last email 22:42 <+phillipsjk> Unless there is a specific reason to believe the 2 week time-frame is unreasonable, I think this motion should be adopted. 22:42 <+JakeDaynes> agreed 22:43 <+SeanHunt> I believe that the 2-week timeline would be difficult to meet. 22:43 <+SeanHunt> JakeDaynes: you will be unable to prepare the requested information with only bank records. 22:45 <+JakeDaynes> actually Sean, with the bank statements, that gives me current financial status, what money was given to us, and what money has been spent/given out - would that not satisfy the request? 22:45 <+SeanHunt> It wouldn't. 22:45 <+SeanHunt> What about PayPal? 22:45 <+SeanHunt> What about the credit card? 22:45 <+Sqratz__> I think people wouldlike to have more info on where the money went. 22:45 <+JakeDaynes> Yes, I understand that Sqratz__ 22:46 <+JakeDaynes> The Credit Card should be through BMO, so we will have access to those statements as well 22:46 <+JakeDaynes> Paypal is easy to acquire access to if Stephane will reply to my email 22:46 <+teamcoltra> We could just setup a mint.com account and pull the BMO and Paypal records to it 22:46 <+teamcoltra> and have a fast financial table 22:46 <+JakeDaynes> Yeah - good idea teamcoltra 22:46 <+JakeDaynes> Mint is a great tool that we should be using 22:46 <+CCitizen> I think it'd be better to at least give until the next GM. Just because I can see bureaucratic paperwork involved in switching directors and such or BMO having plenty of red tape that needs to be dealt with for things to happen 22:47 <+SeanHunt> JakeDaynes: It's a prepaid credit card. 22:47 <+SeanHunt> Getting statements is a bitch. 22:47 <+JakeDaynes> SeanHunt: oh wtf!? 22:47 <+JakeDaynes> Why? 22:47 <+SeanHunt> JakeDaynes: Not credit-worthy. 22:47 <+JakeDaynes> /facepalm 22:47 <+JakeDaynes> Did we even apply for a $500 limit card? 22:48 <@JMcleod> 5 mins is up, anyone move to keep debating^ 22:48 <@JMcleod> ? :) 22:48 <+gregwadden> If we're asking for Equity as well in the resolution does that include any assets owned by the party, servers, etc? 22:48 <@JMcleod> No? 22:48 <+JakeDaynes> Correct, that does - and most of that was already prepared (in a piratepad somewhere) 22:49 <+gregwadden> so any physical goods and their value? 22:49 <+gregwadden> ok cool 22:49 <+KenHoover> i move to extend debate indefinitely, to be closed by a motion of closure. 22:49 <+JakeDaynes> seconded 22:49 <+KenHoover> or a vote 22:49 <@JMcleod> Anyone oppose Ken's motion? 22:49 <+KenHoover> or a vote on the question at hand* 22:50 <@JMcleod> Ok debate is extended indefinately until a motion of some type closes it 22:50 * JMcleod will now make an annoying order script. 22:53 <+phillipsjk> Seeing no debate, cand we put the question to a vote? 22:53 <@JMcleod> finally! is that a move to vote? 22:53 <+Sqratz__> I beleive the Pirate Party of Canada fund is still Mikkel's agent as well. 22:53 <+phillipsjk> yes. 22:53 <+Sqratz__> Might want to double check. 22:53 <+Sqratz__> Sorry. 22:53 <@JMcleod> phillipsjk has moved to vote. 22:54 <+KenHoover> second 22:54 <+JakeDaynes> seconded 22:54 <@JMcleod> Ok so the question is on the following 22:54 <@JMcleod> that a full financial report, including a statement of financial position, a statement of comprehensive income (aka P&L report), 22:54 <@JMcleod> [23:33:00] <+svulliez> a statement of changes in equity, and a statement of cash flows from the Pirate Party of Canada Fund to be posted publicly in the forums and on the Wiki before July 4th (2-weeks), with a presentation at July's GM to address any concerns or discrepencies. 22:55 <@JMcleod> minus the svulliez ;) 22:55 * JMcleod JMcleod, adpaolucci , ampersand , CCitizen , DarkNyan , gregwadden , JakeDaynes , jlamothe , JohannWeiss , KenHoover , lcameron , MononcQc , phillipsjk , SeanHunt , shep , SilverSlimer , Sqratz__ , svulliez , teamcoltra 22:55 <+KenHoover> aye 22:55 <+gregwadden> aye 22:55 <+JakeDaynes> aye 22:55 <+CCitizen> aye 22:55 <+svulliez> aye 22:55 <+phillipsjk> aye 22:55 <+JakeDaynes> (sorry - bathtub blew up - plumber coming by) 22:55 <+SilverSlimer> aye 22:55 <+shep> aye 22:55 <+MononcQc> aye 22:55 <+RLim> aye 22:55 <+JohannWeiss> aye 22:55 <+Sqratz__> aye 22:55 <+SeanHunt> aye 22:56 <+KenHoover> JakeDaynes, exploding bathtubs? sounds like someone dropped the red phosphorus. ;) 22:56 <+adpaolucci> aye 22:56 <+ampersand> aye 22:57 <@JMcleod> votes are now closed 22:57 <@JMcleod> The ayes have it and the motion is adopted 22:57 <+JakeDaynes> KenHoover: nah - the meth didn't cook right 22:57 <+JakeDaynes> (that was a joke, in case anybody started to panic) 22:57 <+KenHoover> JakeDaynes, ah, problematic, that is 22:58 <+phillipsjk> not. sure. if. serious. 22:58 <@JMcleod> I rule that its serious and none of our business 22:58 <@JMcleod> Now. Anyone else have anymore business^ 22:58 <@JMcleod> ? 22:58 <+KenHoover> also, finished editing the constitution with the new amendments, put it up https://www.dropbox.com/s/ikdyoivxfeyt64m/New%20Const.odt 22:59 <@JMcleod> Ok then Ill talk 22:59 <+KenHoover> i move to censure jake for not sharing the meth... 22:59 <+svulliez> hahak 22:59 <@JMcleod> Rejected - dont wanna get jumped by a meth addict 22:59 <+phillipsjk> II move that we censure Sean Hunt over his handling of the vote on the costittuti 22:59 <+phillipsjk> onal ammendments. He has said: 1. He will leave his position if certain results 22:59 <+phillipsjk> happen. 2. He looked at the results ahead of time. 3. He's not happy with the re 22:59 <+phillipsjk> sults. 23:00 <@JMcleod> ;) 23:00 <+SeanHunt> May I have the floor 23:00 <+SeanHunt> ? 23:00 <+KenHoover> i second phillip on that one. 23:00 < Minkowski> sure 23:00 <+SeanHunt> Oh wait 23:00 <+SeanHunt> phillipsjk made the motion I was about to 23:01 <@JMcleod> phillipsjk moved that we censure Sean Hunt over his handling of the vote on the costittutional ammendments. He has said: 1. He will leave his position if certain results happen. 2. He looked at the results ahead of time. 3. He's not happy with the results. 23:01 <+KenHoover> you were going to motion a self-censure? 23:01 <+SeanHunt> KenHoover: I thought no one else would 23:01 <+KenHoover> i suppose 23:01 <+phillipsjk> looks like I made a typo :P 23:01 <@JMcleod> Sean Hunt has the floor 23:01 <+phillipsjk> s/constittutional/constitutional/ 23:02 <@JMcleod> amendment takes only 1 m 23:02 <+SeanHunt> See https://www.pirateparty.ca/forum/index.php?topic=2186.msg12442#msg12442 for my comprehensive take on the subject. 23:02 <@JMcleod> gotta log in :( 23:02 <+SeanHunt> ah, I'll pastebin it 23:02 <+SeanHunt> I've presented the facts; I'll let you decide the appropriate action. 23:03 <+SeanHunt> http://piratepad.ca/oblRijcI8F 23:03 <+SeanHunt> KenHoover: Not that I want to be censured, but I want the conversation to be had. 23:03 <+phillipsjk> that. is not Patebin. 23:04 <@JMcleod> lol piratepad > pastebin 23:04 <+SeanHunt> holding government accountable is important 23:04 <+KenHoover> indeed 23:04 <+KenHoover> already been to a protest or two about that 23:05 <+JohannWeiss> If this is what we're discussing, I'm out. 23:06 <+KenHoover> hey JMcleod, there anything else on the agenda after this? 23:06 <@JMcleod> Not that I know of, however, if someone has something do let me know 23:06 <@JMcleod> We now have something else :) 23:07 <+CCitizen> We going to free or open debate on this? 23:07 <+phillipsjk> JMcleod, pastebin gracefully degrades w/o JavaScript :) 23:07 <+KenHoover> j, is that something the censure? 23:07 <@JMcleod> Waiting on someone to move something 23:07 * Minkowski is on his third cup of coffee 23:08 <+CCitizen> Ok lets move it to open debate then? 23:08 <+KenHoover> argh, fine, i'll move for open debate on sean's censure, to be closed by a motion of closure, or vote on the censure. 23:08 <+KenHoover> and with that, i'm out, gotta get -some-sleep before my date tomorrow 23:08 <@JMcleod> Seeing no opposition, we are now in open debate 23:08 <+CCitizen> IMHO He's already resigned as president... So what more can we do aside from kick him out of the party which would be overkill really. 23:09 < Minkowski> I'd like to introduce a topic for debate 23:09 <+khoover> censure is formal disapproval. accepting a resignation is one this, this is another. 23:09 <@JMcleod> Is minkowski a member? 23:09 <+khoover> i don't think so... 23:10 <+khoover> we could extend open debate to non-members, for the time being? 23:10 <+CCitizen> So it's not like we're putting duct-tape on his mouth and shutting him up 23:10 <+SeanHunt> non-members can debate normally. 23:10 < Minkowski> I think it's time to move on to something more productive 23:10 <@JMcleod> For the debate yeah, but not to intruduce new topics 23:10 <+MononcQc> we voted for a non-member debate yeah 23:10 <+CCitizen> Actually yeah we made a special rule that lets non-members speak by default 23:10 <+SeanHunt> They can if the meeting agrees to 23:10 <+SeanHunt> but not right now 23:10 <+SeanHunt> since we're discussing my censure. 23:11 < Minkowski> I don't think it's necessary as he resigned 23:11 <+SeanHunt> My resignation was not over the vote-peeking issue. 23:11 <+SeanHunt> At least, it wasn't to me. 23:11 <+khoover> again, though, good-night, and see you all later. 23:11 <@JMcleod> cya khoover 23:12 <+CCitizen> I think they wanted to speak on this topic? In any case 23:13 <@JMcleod> im waiting on a motion to end the open debate 23:13 <+svulliez> motion to end debate 23:13 <+gregwadden> second 23:14 <@JMcleod> Shawn moved to end debate 23:14 <@JMcleod> anyone oppose? 23:14 <@JMcleod> Ok then debate is over. 23:15 <@JMcleod> We are now voting on the motion that we censure Sean Hunt over his handling of the vote on the constitutional amendments. He has said: 1. He will leave his position if certain results happen. 2. He looked at the results ahead of time. 3. He's not happy with the results. 23:15 * JMcleod JMcleod, adpaolucci , CCitizen , DarkNyan , gregwadden , JakeDaynes , jlamothe , khoover , lcameron , MononcQc , phillipsjk , SeanHunt , shep , SilverSlimer , Sqratz__ , svulliez , teamcoltra 23:15 <@JMcleod> Aye if you agree - nay if you dont 23:15 <+shep> nay 23:15 <+phillipsjk> aye 23:15 <+gregwadden> abstain 23:15 <+SilverSlimer> abstain 23:15 <+CCitizen> Just a clarification a censure is nothing more than just expressing disapproval with what he did right? 23:16 <+svulliez> aye - no hard feelings though, I believe Hunt thinks it is appropriate 23:16 <+svulliez> yep, formal slap on the wrist 23:16 <+adpaolucci> aye 23:16 <+CCitizen> if that is the case then 23:16 <+MononcQc> aye 23:16 <+CCitizen> aye 23:16 <+JakeDaynes> aye 23:17 <@JMcleod> Voting closed - Ayes have it 23:18 <@JMcleod> Now, gregwadden wanted the floor 23:18 <+gregwadden> Thank you. I'd like to motion to recieve an update from our projects at the next GM 23:19 <+SeanHunt> second 23:19 <@JMcleod> ok then - the motion on the floor is to recieve an update from our projects at the next GM 23:19 <@JMcleod> Any discussion? 23:20 <+CCitizen> I can give an update right now if people want 23:20 < Minkowski> definitely 23:20 <@JMcleod> well I would prefer next meeting, its getting late 23:21 <@JMcleod> I have to get up at 8:30 and its 12:20 here 23:21 <+gregwadden> Yeah I'm on atlantic time over here 23:21 <@JMcleod> (normally wouldnt matter, but I have to see a client tomorrow so I have to be awake :D ) 23:22 <+CCitizen> VPN is moving as normal. We are hoping to advertise it more and get more subscriptions. EncryptEverything is still hosted on Jake's site and is actively being worked on by OxPirate. PirateLinux recently released a new version for Ubuntu 12.04 thanks to Drew. Johann is waiting for routers for his piratebox tests. CaPT is somewhat in limbo, we need to work on that one. Legal Defense fund hasnt been officially recog 23:22 <+CCitizen> nized and neither has Sneakernet project. 23:23 <+CCitizen> I've also purchased a Raspberry Pi and I'm waiting for it to get here (dispatch should be in maybe I think 2 weeks and then shipping time to get to me) 23:24 <+CCitizen> If needed I'll provide a better report come next GM. That's just a general short state of affairs for the PDC. 23:24 <@JMcleod> Cool - Thanks for the summary :) 23:25 <@JMcleod> We are now voting on the motion on the floor is to recieve an update from our projects at the next GM 23:25 * JMcleod JMcleod, adpaolucci , CCitizen , DarkNyan , gregwadden , JakeDaynes , jlamothe , khoover , lcameron , MononcQc , phillipsjk , SeanHunt , shep , SilverSlimer , Sqratz__ , svulliez , teamcoltra 23:25 <@JMcleod> Aye if you want one, nay if you dont 23:25 <+gregwadden> aye 23:25 <+JakeDaynes> aye 23:25 <+CCitizen> aye 23:25 <+MononcQc> aye 23:25 <+SilverSlimer> aye 23:25 <+shep> aye 23:25 <+SeanHunt> aye 23:25 <+Sqratz__> aye 23:25 <+phillipsjk> abstain 23:25 <@JMcleod> (this voiced macro seems to work well ;) ) 23:27 <+svulliez> aye 23:27 <@JMcleod> Voting closed - the ayes have it 23:28 <@JMcleod> We will provide an update for the next GM 23:29 <@JMcleod> Can someone vote to end tonight's meeting (unless you think I suck, you can also move to reconsider Sean's resignation if you voted for (aye) it)? 23:29 <+phillipsjk> I move to adjourn the meeting. 23:29 <+CCitizen> Hehe 23:29 <+SeanHunt> Hang on 23:29 <+SeanHunt> Ah, beaten to it. 23:29 <+SeanHunt> Well then. 23:29 <+CCitizen> Actually I was wondering if we can change the rule that says voting stays open for what 90 seconds? 23:29 <+SeanHunt> phillipsjk: Are you willing to withdraw; I have an alternate motion. 23:29 <+SeanHunt> CCitizen: It's not a permanent rule. 23:30 <+SeanHunt> It will expire after this meeting. 23:30 * phillipsjk yeilds 23:30 <@JMcleod> it should be 120 seconds? if not, ill always do 120s because its easier for me :D 23:30 <+CCitizen> ah ok 23:30 <+CCitizen> I was gonna say 5 minutes might be better just because not everyone is gonna sit at the keys for 4+ hours straight 23:30 <+SeanHunt> I move that this meeting adjourn to Wednesday, July 4 at the same time. 23:31 <+CCitizen> but yeah adjourning might be best not everyone woke up halfway through the meeting :D 23:31 <@JMcleod> any seconds? 23:31 <+CCitizen> i'll second it then :) 23:32 <+SeanHunt> If I can briefly have the floor? 23:32 <@JMcleod> Go ahead 23:32 <+SeanHunt> I was thinking of proposing biweekly meetings anyway 23:32 <+SeanHunt> As it stands, these meetings are long 23:32 <+SeanHunt> Having them more frequently would be good, I think. 23:32 <+SeanHunt> The risk is even less attendance 23:32 <+CCitizen> Are they always this long... It might just be a function of having to deal with your resignation 23:32 <+SeanHunt> CCitizen: Usually something stupid comes up 23:32 <+SeanHunt> But on the other hand, we may get less trapped in stupidity. 23:33 <+SeanHunt> And we can probably spend less time on trivialities like triple-amended motions 23:33 <@JMcleod> Yeah, theyre usually this long 23:33 <+SeanHunt> since we can just postpone them two weeks 23:33 <+SeanHunt> that isn't a big deal compared to a month 23:33 <+SeanHunt> We always seem to have enough business, so that implies more frequent meetings. 23:33 <+SeanHunt> Apologies to Americans, but July 4 is exactly between this meeting and our next regular one. 23:33 <+SeanHunt> Done. 23:33 <+CCitizen> Yeah but much of the business could be handled by EB/PC couldnt it? 23:34 <+SeanHunt> Sure, but members want their say. As I said in my final President report, accountability by the membership is important. 23:34 <+SeanHunt> the financial motion came because members felt that they couldn't get what they wanted from EB/PC, for instance 23:35 <+SeanHunt> Perhaps in the long term we can look to only doing some things once a month 23:35 <+CCitizen> Yeah I'm not 100% sure we'll have everything by the 4th either... I can already see the red tape involved in getting the bank to switch accounts over as taking more than a week itself 23:35 <+SeanHunt> anyway, I've said my piece. 23:35 <+JakeDaynes> have we adjourned yet? 23:35 <+SeanHunt> no sense dragging on. 23:35 <@JMcleod> no we havent 23:35 <+SeanHunt> JakeDaynes: No. I moved that we adjourn to the 4th of July. 23:35 <+JakeDaynes> I'd like to step out from under RRoO - seconded 23:35 <+SeanHunt> scrollback if you want to know why 23:36 <+JakeDaynes> I read why 23:36 <+svulliez> If we followed adpaolucci 's idea and switched to mumble meetings with +v for GMs, I think we'd get better quicker results 23:36 <+JakeDaynes> +1 23:36 <@JMcleod> We can discuss that at the next EB meeting 23:36 <+SeanHunt> Mumble for GMs would be... interesting 23:37 <+SeanHunt> Might work. 23:37 <+SeanHunt> Willing to entertain that we try the July 4 one on mumble 23:37 <@JMcleod> Youll all get to hear my squeaky voice 23:37 <+SeanHunt> an adjourned meeting is a particularly good time to try out new things 23:37 <@JMcleod> Ok im tired, lets vote 23:37 <+JakeDaynes> aye 23:38 <@JMcleod> We are now voting on the motion that this meeting adjourn to Wednesday, July 4 at the same time 23:38 <@JMcleod> aye = yes, nay = no 23:38 * JMcleod JMcleod, adpaolucci , CCitizen , DarkNyan , gregwadden , JakeDaynes , jlamothe , khoover , lcameron , MononcQc , phillipsjk , SeanHunt , shep , Sqratz__ , svulliez , teamcoltra 23:38 <+shep> aye 23:38 <+JakeDaynes> aye 23:38 <+gregwadden> nay 23:38 <+phillipsjk> nay 23:38 <+CCitizen> aye 23:38 <+MononcQc> aye 23:38 <+MononcQc> (do people abstain on this?) 23:39 <+Sqratz__> aye 23:39 <+SeanHunt> aye 23:40 <@JMcleod> The ayes have it, see you guys July 4th (I'll be on a lot in the next few days) 23:40 <@JMcleod> Meeting adjourned

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