Irclog 2009-08-04

From Pirate Party of Canada

(2009-08-04 20:01:30) MrCaptain: ok, let's get started

(2009-08-04 20:01:39) smashagnome: yar

(2009-08-04 20:01:45) Cyclonis: arrar

(2009-08-04 20:01:45) shep: Today is my birthday!

(2009-08-04 20:01:51) JSagert: ...

(2009-08-04 20:01:53) MrCaptain: so we're going to take a structured approach to this

(2009-08-04 20:02:09) MrCaptain: lets have one person speak at once, so it doesn't end in utter chaos

(2009-08-04 20:02:18) Tyler_Lerang_J: Voice! =D

(2009-08-04 20:02:21) MrCaptain: if you want to debate, type /join #debates

(2009-08-04 20:02:29) MrCaptain: we'll use voice if we need to

(2009-08-04 20:03:23) MrCaptain: guidelines are here: http://wiki.piratepartyofcanada.com/index.php/Meeting_Guidelines

(2009-08-04 20:03:27) Odemia left the room

(quit: Connection reset by peer).

(2009-08-04 20:03:29) Odemia [Odemia-Des@62698859.860BC10B.30FEF610.IP] entered the room.

(2009-08-04 20:03:29) mode

(+o Odemia) by ChanServ

(2009-08-04 20:03:35) MrCaptain: meeting agenda is here: http://wiki.piratepartyofcanada.com/index.php/Meeting_August_4 20:05

(2009-08-04 20:05:20) MrCaptain: so in short, if you want to talk, press ! and ill give the floor to whoever. when you're done, type EOF

(2009-08-04 20:05:56) MrCaptain: so first issue is elections

(2009-08-04 20:06:12) MrCaptain: we've got 5 positions available, all are welcome to run

(2009-08-04 20:06:30) MrCaptain: the descriptions are listed here: http://wiki.piratepartyofcanada.com/index.php/Party_Officer_Nominations

(2009-08-04 20:07:01) MrCaptain: we should set a deadline for nominations soon. we originally set it for july 31, but that passed and we weren't ready

(2009-08-04 20:07:40) JakeDaynes: !

(2009-08-04 20:07:40) MrCaptain: does august 20 sound good for everyone?

(2009-08-04 20:07:48) MrCaptain: go JakeDaynes

(2009-08-04 20:08:21) JakeDaynes: I think that for a nomination deadline, the week after Frosh would be perfect

(2009-08-04 20:08:31) JakeDaynes: enabling any new participants to step up

(2009-08-04 20:08:33) JakeDaynes: eof

(2009-08-04 20:09:00) robbrit: !

(2009-08-04 20:09:04) MrCaptain: go robbrit

(2009-08-04 20:09:16) robbrit: do people care if i use MrCaptain to respond, or should i use this account?

(2009-08-04 20:09:32) JakeDaynes: just use whichever

(2009-08-04 20:09:40) robbrit: k

(2009-08-04 20:09:54) robbrit: but anyway to JakeDaynes's comment, that sounds good, although we should get the NPC registered before then 20:10

(2009-08-04 20:10:21) ***robbrit checks agenda

(2009-08-04 20:10:26) Odemia: !

(2009-08-04 20:10:29) robbrit: ok we'll talk about that later

(2009-08-04 20:10:30) robbrit: EOF

(2009-08-04 20:10:41) Odemia: X

(2009-08-04 20:10:42) MrCaptain: go Odemia

(2009-08-04 20:10:52) MrCaptain: ok nm

(2009-08-04 20:11:10) MrCaptain: nominees we can pass...

(2009-08-04 20:11:15) MrCaptain: voting mechanism

(2009-08-04 20:11:24) MrCaptain: whats this VoteBot? is it just an IRC bot, or something more?

(2009-08-04 20:11:30) JSagert: !

(2009-08-04 20:11:36) MrCaptain: go JSagert

(2009-08-04 20:12:15) JSagert: It's a bot I coded in mIRCscript, nothing more.

(2009-08-04 20:12:55) BobJonkman: !

(2009-08-04 20:13:00) JSagert: Do we require voting to be anonymized for positions?

(2009-08-04 20:13:01) JSagert: X

(2009-08-04 20:13:19) JSagert: EOF*

(2009-08-04 20:13:24) MrCaptain: go BobJonkman

(2009-08-04 20:13:38) BobJonkman: Is there a place we can discuss out-of-band?

(2009-08-04 20:13:49) BobJonkman: eof

(2009-08-04 20:13:52) MrCaptain: yep, #debates

(2009-08-04 20:13:57) MrCaptain: use /join #debates to join that

(2009-08-04 20:14:06) Tyler_Lerang_J: !

(2009-08-04 20:14:10) MrCaptain: JSagert: let's keep voting anonymous

(2009-08-04 20:14:16) MrCaptain: go Tyler_Lerang_J

(2009-08-04 20:14:26) Tyler_Lerang_J: This is to a request for anyone on thats in halifax

(2009-08-04 20:14:33) Tyler_Lerang_J: please join channel #Halifax

(2009-08-04 20:14:43) Tyler_Lerang_J: I wnat to start coordinating our chapter in Nova Scotia

(2009-08-04 20:14:45) Tyler_Lerang_J: thank you

(2009-08-04 20:14:45) Tyler_Lerang_J: EOF

(2009-08-04 20:14:58) MrCaptain: ok cool 20:15

(2009-08-04 20:15:01) MrCaptain: so for voting

(2009-08-04 20:15:07) MrCaptain: how do we want to do it? electronic? mail?

(2009-08-04 20:15:15) JakeDaynes: !

(2009-08-04 20:15:19) Odemia: !

(2009-08-04 20:15:28) Tyler_Lerang_J: !

(2009-08-04 20:15:34) MrCaptain: go JakeDaynes

(2009-08-04 20:16:07) Jacks: !

(2009-08-04 20:16:24) JakeDaynes: I believe that unless we can devise a method of totally secure electronic voting, then traditional paper ballots would be safest, though slow

(2009-08-04 20:16:25) JakeDaynes: eof

(2009-08-04 20:16:40) MrCaptain: agreed. go Odemia

(2009-08-04 20:17:04) Odemia: yeah if we are going for hidden ballot I think paper is required

(2009-08-04 20:17:15) JSagert has changed the topic to: Welcome to the official Pirate Party of Canada IRC channel! Meeting starts @ 8pm EST. Please review meeting rules @ http://wiki.piratepartyofcanada.com/index.php/Meeting_Guidelines | Please direct all out-of-band chatter to #debates.

(2009-08-04 20:17:25) Odemia: if we are willing to vote openly electronic could work

(2009-08-04 20:17:39) Odemia: but we also need to address who is allowed to vote.

(2009-08-04 20:17:59) Odemia: I suggest only those registered in the CRM or who have submitted forms

(2009-08-04 20:18:03) Odemia: eof

(2009-08-04 20:18:08) JakeDaynes: !

(2009-08-04 20:18:15) MrCaptain left the room

(quit: Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client).

(2009-08-04 20:18:20) robbrit: oops

(2009-08-04 20:18:22) smashagnome: !

(2009-08-04 20:18:23) Tyler_Lerang_J: lol

(2009-08-04 20:18:30) MrCaptain [adb064ab@ppoc-C1B2F5E7.mibbit.com] entered the room.

(2009-08-04 20:18:30) robbrit: go Tyler_Lerang_J

(2009-08-04 20:18:35) Tyler_Lerang_J: thank oyu

(2009-08-04 20:18:40) mode

(+o MrCaptain) by robbrit

(2009-08-04 20:18:43) Tyler_Lerang_J: I ahve devisedeth a system

(2009-08-04 20:18:51) Tyler_Lerang_J: that sues papaer AND digital

(2009-08-04 20:18:58) Tyler_Lerang_J: u get a code in the mail

(2009-08-04 20:19:01) Tyler_Lerang_J: go to a site

(2009-08-04 20:19:03) Tyler_Lerang_J: enter the code

(2009-08-04 20:19:05) Tyler_Lerang_J: and vote

(2009-08-04 20:19:16) Tyler_Lerang_J: i think thats about the only secure way to do it

(2009-08-04 20:19:23) BobJonkman: !

(2009-08-04 20:19:23) JakeDaynes: !!

(2009-08-04 20:19:28) Tyler_Lerang_J: give people random codes, 1 code per perosn per vote

(2009-08-04 20:19:31) JakeDaynes: X

(2009-08-04 20:19:37) Tyler_Lerang_J: or we email ballots

(2009-08-04 20:19:41) Tyler_Lerang_J: EOF

(2009-08-04 20:19:46) MrCaptain: go Jacks 20:20

(2009-08-04 20:20:45) Jacks: It's hard to sort of put this into just one sentence... But I don't see why we can't use electronic voting. The same problems exist both ways for security, and electronic is faster, cheaper, etc

(2009-08-04 20:21:14) Jacks: Ways already exist to do this online, we can use those to our advantage without having to reinvent the wheel, spending money mailing, etc.

(2009-08-04 20:21:19) Jacks: EOF

(2009-08-04 20:21:23) steve: +1

(2009-08-04 20:21:26) JakeDaynes: !!

(2009-08-04 20:21:31) MrCaptain: go smashagnome

(2009-08-04 20:21:34) smashagnome: why not use a poll on the forums, only registered users can do it - and it would be annonymous. You just need to set it to a single vote per user.

(2009-08-04 20:21:37) smashagnome: eof

(2009-08-04 20:21:50) MrCaptain: go BobJonkman

(2009-08-04 20:21:55) BobJonkman: Tyler_Lerang_J: What ensures that when we receive the ballot, the site we go to is authentic? What ensures that the ballot we receive is authentic? E-voting requires end-to-end security, and PPoC can't ensure that the voter's end is secure. Paper ballots have the advantage that they're easily auditable, and there's no proprietary software to audit

(2009-08-04 20:22:23) Tyler_Lerang_J: !

(2009-08-04 20:22:27) steve: !

(2009-08-04 20:22:37) BobJonkman: eof

(2009-08-04 20:22:42) MrCaptain: go JakeDaynes

(2009-08-04 20:23:11) JakeDaynes: My belief is that if we use Tyler's system, using it via email would be best, as opposed to snail mail, in order to cut down on costs and time

(2009-08-04 20:23:12) JakeDaynes: eof

(2009-08-04 20:23:19) MrCaptain: go Tyler_Lerang_J

(2009-08-04 20:23:40) Tyler_Lerang_J: in honesty the email was a typo, but ye, emailing codes through there would eb better

(2009-08-04 20:23:43) Tyler_Lerang_J: and to bob

(2009-08-04 20:23:50) Tyler_Lerang_J: we would ahve to work that out.

(2009-08-04 20:23:56) Tyler_Lerang_J: its open for debate

(2009-08-04 20:23:58) Tyler_Lerang_J: EOF

(2009-08-04 20:23:59) robbrit: !

(2009-08-04 20:24:05) MrCaptain: go steve

(2009-08-04 20:24:17) smashagnome: !

(2009-08-04 20:24:44) steve: I think that a paper system is open to far more failure points than tested, proven software offered by experianced vendors 20:25

(2009-08-04 20:25:18) steve: we would otherwise be relying upong individals that most of us have never met, to do the job properly. What is to prevent the X individuals in the counting room from rigging votes? Not that they would, but perhaps a mistake or miscount is more likely

(2009-08-04 20:25:40) steve: it would also not be in a software vendor's interest to use slanted voting systems

(2009-08-04 20:26:13) BobJonkman: !

(2009-08-04 20:26:21) MrCaptain: X

(2009-08-04 20:26:22) steve: at this point in time, I think the effort and cost required for a paper ballot system is more than is worth it. We don't even have 250 members yet. When the party grows large, we re-discuss, but for the moment I think electronic would expidite the process

(2009-08-04 20:26:25) robbrit: X

(2009-08-04 20:26:25) steve: eof

(2009-08-04 20:26:30) MrCaptain: go smashagnome

(2009-08-04 20:26:33) smashagnome: You seem to be using PHPBB for your forums, or something like it - easily set up for polls... no extra cost or issue.

(2009-08-04 20:26:36) smashagnome: eof

(2009-08-04 20:26:41) JSagert: !!

(2009-08-04 20:26:48) MrCaptain: go BobJonkman

(2009-08-04 20:26:56) BobJonkman: Has someone checked with Elections Canada for guidelines to e-voting?

(2009-08-04 20:26:59) BobJonkman: eof

(2009-08-04 20:26:59) robbrit: !

(2009-08-04 20:27:10) Odemia: !

(2009-08-04 20:27:11) MrCaptain: go JakeDaynes

(2009-08-04 20:27:47) JakeDaynes: Umm, I never requested speaking, although to Smashagnome, polls on the forums can easily be rigged using multiple accounts

(2009-08-04 20:28:00) Tyler_Lerang_J: !

(2009-08-04 20:28:03) JSagert: X

(2009-08-04 20:28:26) MrCaptain: go robbrit

(2009-08-04 20:28:39) robbrit: smashagnome: its Phorum, it has a poll software but it's broken

(2009-08-04 20:28:51) steve: !

(2009-08-04 20:28:58) robbrit: also it isn't anonymous, and like JakeDaynes put it can be rigged easily

(2009-08-04 20:28:59) smashagnome: !

(2009-08-04 20:29:00) robbrit: eof

(2009-08-04 20:29:05) MrCaptain: go Odemia

(2009-08-04 20:29:42) Odemia: I think we have to assume that people are registered with the party. 20:30

(2009-08-04 20:30:02) robbrit: !

(2009-08-04 20:30:17) Odemia: Unless we actually check out each person that sends in information they could flood the ballot box

(2009-08-04 20:30:26) Odemia: eof

(2009-08-04 20:30:33) MrCaptain: go Tyler_Lerang_J

(2009-08-04 20:30:38) Tyler_Lerang_J: You want a sollution?

(2009-08-04 20:30:42) Tyler_Lerang_J: Invision free boards

(2009-08-04 20:30:45) Tyler_Lerang_J: make a mask, add voters

(2009-08-04 20:30:53) Tyler_Lerang_J: those voters go to a topic only for that group/mask

(2009-08-04 20:30:54) Tyler_Lerang_J: they vote

(2009-08-04 20:30:56) Tyler_Lerang_J: problem solved

(2009-08-04 20:31:05) Tyler_Lerang_J: we keep a vigil on inacitves and 2nd acocunts

(2009-08-04 20:31:07) Tyler_Lerang_J: everyoens happy

(2009-08-04 20:31:12) Tyler_Lerang_J: EOF

(2009-08-04 20:31:19) MrCaptain: go steve

(2009-08-04 20:32:43) steve: I think that multiple faked accounts is a moot argument for e-ballots. As Odemia pointed out, we have no way to verify membership accounts. We could, already, have someone with multiple accounts. A paper ballot system would suffer the same flaws

(multiple mailing addresses). This is a global issue that is seperate from voting, and must be addressed independantly. EOF

(2009-08-04 20:32:57) Tyler_Lerang_J: !

(2009-08-04 20:33:41) BobJonkman: !

(2009-08-04 20:33:43) MrCaptain: go smashagnome

(2009-08-04 20:33:46) smashagnome: You make it transparent by having each paid member allowed into a certain forum where the poll is, then if there are 30 members there should be only 30 votes, no more , no less.

(2009-08-04 20:33:49) MrCaptain: didnt' realize he put EOF at the end

(2009-08-04 20:34:05) smashagnome: and to be frank - do you really think people who are opposed or want to mess with it will go to your site?

(2009-08-04 20:34:06) smashagnome: eof

(2009-08-04 20:34:12) MrCaptain: go robbrit

(2009-08-04 20:34:27) robbrit: we haven't actually decided paper vs. electronic yet

(2009-08-04 20:34:30) robbrit: for one

(2009-08-04 20:34:39) robbrit: second, i have an idea for paper that ill throw out

(2009-08-04 20:34:47) Odemia: !

(2009-08-04 20:34:57) robbrit: we have a list of everyone who has either registered through the CRM or through the mail form

(2009-08-04 20:34:59) Jacks: ! 20:35

(2009-08-04 20:35:30) robbrit: if we do paper, why not just mail or email everyone instructions and a generated code which we store on our system but not linked to their name

(2009-08-04 20:35:38) robbrit: then they can either use that code online, or they can mail it back

(2009-08-04 20:35:43) robbrit: eof

(2009-08-04 20:35:44) JakeDaynes: +1

(2009-08-04 20:35:49) MrCaptain: go Tyler_Lerang_J

(2009-08-04 20:36:02) Tyler_Lerang_J: if we are so worried about extra account

(2009-08-04 20:36:08) Tyler_Lerang_J: verify by IP and

(2009-08-04 20:36:14) steve: !!

(2009-08-04 20:36:17) Tyler_Lerang_J: email or contact the members

(2009-08-04 20:36:23) Tyler_Lerang_J: that filkled out paperwork

(2009-08-04 20:36:25) Tyler_Lerang_J: and ask for accounts

(2009-08-04 20:36:30) Tyler_Lerang_J: and then you ahv voters

(2009-08-04 20:36:33) Nuitari: !

(2009-08-04 20:36:36) Tyler_Lerang_J: there are ways to get around

(2009-08-04 20:36:39) Tyler_Lerang_J: EOF

(2009-08-04 20:36:57) MrCaptain: go BobJonkman

(2009-08-04 20:36:59) BobJonkman: Paid memberships will go some way to ensure one vote per membership. Voting for directors in the NPC is less crucial, but for party leadership we're potentially choosing a future Prime Minister, so proper election procedures are a must. Web forums, PHP polls, IRC votes are not adequate. As a serious voter, I don't want to be a member of a party that doesn't take this very seriously. EOF

(2009-08-04 20:37:08) MrCaptain: go Odemia

(2009-08-04 20:37:23) Odemia: can we start by having a poll right now if we want hidden ballots or not. If not this is all sort of a mute point.

(2009-08-04 20:37:58) Odemia: Assuming we want hidden ballots then we should move to decided paper vs electronic.

(2009-08-04 20:38:05) MrCaptain: anybody is welcome to respond to the VoteBot

(2009-08-04 20:38:20) Odemia: and last, I think we should avoid codes on ballots

(2009-08-04 20:38:31) smashagnome: !

(2009-08-04 20:38:38) Tyler_Lerang_J: !

(2009-08-04 20:38:58) Odemia: putting sealed ballots in an envelope witha return address is sufficient to maintain anonymity without allowing ballot stuffing

(2009-08-04 20:39:01) Odemia: eof

(2009-08-04 20:39:23) VoteBot: [VOTE] Vote started: Do we want hidden ballots? [Please vote by saying JUST yay or nay, or say abstain to abstain from voting. [Use all lowercase letters.])

(2009-08-04 20:39:31) Tyler_Lerang_J: yay

(2009-08-04 20:39:31) smashagnome: NAY

(2009-08-04 20:39:34) BobJonkman: yay

(2009-08-04 20:39:36) shep: nay

(2009-08-04 20:39:42) Nuitari: nay

(2009-08-04 20:39:43) Odemia: abstain

(2009-08-04 20:39:45) steve: yay

(2009-08-04 20:39:47) JakeDaynes: nay

(2009-08-04 20:39:49) JSagert: nay

(2009-08-04 20:39:50) Cyclonis: yay 20:40

(2009-08-04 20:40:00) cpt_chris: smashagnome: lowercase only :O

(2009-08-04 20:40:01) JakeDaynes: smashagnome: USE LOWERCASE

(2009-08-04 20:40:07) smashagnome: nay

(2009-08-04 20:40:15) Jacks: yay

(2009-08-04 20:40:16) smashagnome: said I voted already

(2009-08-04 20:40:17) Tyler_Lerang_J: any last votes?

(2009-08-04 20:40:26) JakeDaynes: 3

(2009-08-04 20:40:28) JakeDaynes: 2

(2009-08-04 20:40:31) JakeDaynes: 1

(2009-08-04 20:40:41) VoteBot: [VOTE] Vote ended: Do we want hidden ballots? - results:

(Yay: 4)

(Nay: 5) [Abstained: 1]

(2009-08-04 20:40:49) Jacks: ....How does the bot know if someone has voted twice?

(2009-08-04 20:40:52) Jacks: Whoa, wait

(2009-08-04 20:41:00) JSagert: Jacks: Hostmasks.

(2009-08-04 20:41:05) Tyler_Lerang_J: there was a missed vote

(2009-08-04 20:41:07) smashagnome: It wouldnt let me vote twice

(2009-08-04 20:41:09) Jacks: Steve and I have the same one right now

(2009-08-04 20:41:16) Jacks: It wouldn't let me vote

(2009-08-04 20:41:17) steve: we're in the same room at my house

(2009-08-04 20:41:26) MrCaptain: ok so it was a tie

(2009-08-04 20:41:39) BobJonkman: OK, there's the proof that e-voting is inadequate. There are five 'yay' votes on my screen

(2009-08-04 20:41:39) JSagert: !

(2009-08-04 20:41:49) MrCaptain: so back to where we were, go Jacks

(2009-08-04 20:41:50) Jacks: Don't use that as proof.

(2009-08-04 20:41:54) Jacks: Thanks :)

(2009-08-04 20:42:16) Jacks: Okay, I would like to propose that we create a committee to look into both sides of this: Check out the price for mailing out ballots, the price for electronic, and the security of each

(2009-08-04 20:42:42) Jacks: We're obviously very divided on this issue, and there's also not a lot of facts going into this discussion on either side... Taking a bit more time to get it right, to me, would be a good call

(2009-08-04 20:42:54) JakeDaynes: +1

(2009-08-04 20:42:58) steve: +1

(2009-08-04 20:43:02) JSagert: +1

(2009-08-04 20:43:06) Jacks: As for the proving e-voting is inadequate, this just proves that doing it by IP or something similar is not adequate.

(2009-08-04 20:43:10) JSagert: X

(2009-08-04 20:43:37) MrCaptain: ok noted, and i'll put this onto our agenda, since there are people waiting to speak

(2009-08-04 20:43:38) Jacks: And, as for a code... It couldn't be written on the ballot, it would have to be a separate sheet of paper. No identification should be on the ballot itself.

(2009-08-04 20:43:39) Jacks: EOF

(2009-08-04 20:43:44) MrCaptain: go Nuitari

(2009-08-04 20:44:01) Nuitari: If there are no codes ont he ballot, then photocopying it would make it real easy to stuff a ballot

(2009-08-04 20:44:10) robbrit: !

(2009-08-04 20:44:13) Odemia: !!

(2009-08-04 20:44:31) Jacks: !

(2009-08-04 20:44:32) Nuitari: For evoting we could either mail out or email unique codes, a bit like how proxyvotecanada works on their form

(2009-08-04 20:44:40) Odemia: X 20:45

(2009-08-04 20:45:14) Nuitari: the code can be independant from the actual voter and just serves as a voted / did not vote verification

(2009-08-04 20:45:51) Nuitari: a basic unique ip check should still be there for security reasons, but it wouldn't be the only check in place

(2009-08-04 20:46:07) Jacks: x

(2009-08-04 20:46:42) Nuitari: we can also delete the code from the CRM after the initial mail out and just keep them in a separate table to have hidden voting if so desired

(2009-08-04 20:46:46) Nuitari: eof

(2009-08-04 20:46:52) MrCaptain: go smashagnome

(2009-08-04 20:47:15) smashagnome: Create a secondary temp site

(2009-08-04 20:47:19) smashagnome: that has aliases i

(2009-08-04 20:47:22) smashagnome: nstead of names

(2009-08-04 20:47:33) smashagnome: eof

(2009-08-04 20:47:38) MrCaptain: go Tyler_Lerang_J

(2009-08-04 20:47:40) Tyler_Lerang_J: Just want to remind poeple about #Halifax...

(2009-08-04 20:47:45) Tyler_Lerang_J: EOF

(2009-08-04 20:47:50) MrCaptain: go robbrit

(2009-08-04 20:47:53) Odemia: !

(2009-08-04 20:48:08) robbrit: what i mean about a code is there will be one code for each party member

(2009-08-04 20:48:19) robbrit: however we will not link the code with the member

(2009-08-04 20:48:35) robbrit: so N party members, N codes generated and mailed off at random, the recipient is not recorded

(2009-08-04 20:48:56) robbrit: the recipient can then use that code to vote, either electronically or by mail, and then the code is marked as used

(2009-08-04 20:49:06) robbrit: eof

(2009-08-04 20:49:09) MrCaptain: go Odemia

(2009-08-04 20:49:10) JakeDaynes: +1

(2009-08-04 20:49:26) Odemia: We are just ending up with more solutions than we started with. What are our goals? How anonymous? How secure? ANd how to get enough people looking over the process?

(2009-08-04 20:49:33) BobJonkman: !

(2009-08-04 20:49:33) robbrit: !

(2009-08-04 20:49:41) Odemia: EOF

(2009-08-04 20:49:47) MrCaptain: go robbrit

(2009-08-04 20:49:55) Jacks: ! 20:50

(2009-08-04 20:50:10) robbrit: a quick thing to add, if we receive the votes in the mail we can bring the UNOPENED envelopes to a meeting in person

(2009-08-04 20:50:12) robbrit: eof

(2009-08-04 20:50:17) MrCaptain: go BobJonkman

(2009-08-04 20:50:21) Nuitari: !

(2009-08-04 20:50:22) BobJonkman: Much research has already been done by elections Canada.

(2009-08-04 20:50:46) shep: !

(2009-08-04 20:50:54) BobJonkman: There's a report at Techn\

(2009-08-04 20:51:04) MrCaptain: ok so after BobJonkman we will have Jacks and shep, and then we'll move on

(2009-08-04 20:51:31) BobJonkman: I have not yet read it, but I've done enough research of other sources to know that e-voting is a very difficult thing to do well. Expensive too, when all the auditing is accounted for

(2009-08-04 20:51:33) BobJonkman: eof

(2009-08-04 20:51:43) MrCaptain: go Jacks

(2009-08-04 20:51:48) BobJonkman: http://www.elections.ca/content.asp?section=loi&document=index&dir=vot&lang=e

(2009-08-04 20:52:24) Jacks: I still think it would be good to look into the options as they stand, figure out where the break even

(in a sense) point is between the options, and with the size of the population

(2009-08-04 20:52:55) Jacks: Come back next meeting, or maybe even discuss it at the next local meetings, and go through a more informed/official vote upon elections

(2009-08-04 20:53:04) Jacks: I think I had something else to say, but oh well. EOF

(2009-08-04 20:53:09) MrCaptain: go shep

(2009-08-04 20:53:12) Odemia: +1

(2009-08-04 20:53:13) shep: I think that as a Digital Issues party, we need to be seen as leaders in technology. The other partys can be the followers. We also can't underestimate the apathy of our target demographic; young voters. I think that we should offer

(at every oppurtunity, not just for voting) a convenient digital solution.

(2009-08-04 20:53:29) shep: As for voting specifically, as others have suggested; we should tie online accounts to information received on the "Declaration of a member of the party" form, just as the delivery of paper ballots would be. The voter should then be able to decide how to return their vote; online or offline.

(2009-08-04 20:53:40) shep: eof

(2009-08-04 20:54:02) MrCaptain: ok good. so I made a note to appoint a few people to do this research, let's talk about that real quick. any volunteers say yay

(2009-08-04 20:54:09) Nuitari: yay

(2009-08-04 20:54:12) BobJonkman: yay

(2009-08-04 20:54:19) Jacks: yay

(2009-08-04 20:54:22) steve: yay

(2009-08-04 20:54:39) MrCaptain: ok so 4 is enough

(2009-08-04 20:54:58) Odemia: ! 20:55

(2009-08-04 20:55:11) MrCaptain: you guys do some research into e-voting, if as shep says we can find a good way to do it then awesome, otherwise lets see what else we can do

(2009-08-04 20:55:12) MrCaptain: go Odemia

(2009-08-04 20:55:24) Jacks: *into all forms of voting

(2009-08-04 20:55:47) steve: yes all forms

(2009-08-04 20:55:47) MrCaptain: right

(2009-08-04 20:55:54) Odemia: Can I just request that there goal should be to come back with 2 or 3 clear solutions to voting so that we can have a short discussion and vote on it next time

(2009-08-04 20:56:01) Odemia: eof

(2009-08-04 20:56:06) JakeDaynes: +1

(2009-08-04 20:56:11) robbrit: +1

(2009-08-04 20:56:13) shep: +1

(2009-08-04 20:56:15) JSagert: +1

(2009-08-04 20:56:17) Nuitari: +1

(2009-08-04 20:56:20) JSagert: !

(2009-08-04 20:56:20) BobJonkman: +1

(2009-08-04 20:56:29) MrCaptain: sounds good, so Jacks, steve, Nuitari and BobJonkman, see what you can come up with for the next meeting

(2009-08-04 20:56:30) Jacks: +1

(2009-08-04 20:56:31) MrCaptain: go JSagert

(2009-08-04 20:57:09) JSagert: I move for a recess, meeting to reassemble in 5 minutes at 9:02EST.

(2009-08-04 20:57:16) JSagert:

(Bathroom)

(2009-08-04 20:57:19) JSagert: EOF

(2009-08-04 20:57:28) MrCaptain: good idea

(2009-08-04 20:57:32) BobJonkman: +1

(2009-08-04 20:57:33) JakeDaynes: +1

(2009-08-04 20:57:35) MrCaptain: lets come back in 5 minutes 21:00

(2009-08-04 21:00:45) cpt_chris: -

(2009-08-04 21:00:46) cpt_chris: i can't believe paper is being considered for voting. as shep said, we are a young party and everyone would expect us to be the experts in technology related legislation and the interwebs. the questions we need to ask are 'what can we do to be secure when voting' and 'what online voting system is best?'

(2009-08-04 21:01:20) JSagert: cpt_chris: Please keep this out-of-band chatter to debates.

(2009-08-04 21:01:26) JSagert: #debates *

(2009-08-04 21:01:31) cpt_chris: i think many people my age don't vote because it's a nuisance to go so far to simple check a box, when we can share books online

(2009-08-04 21:01:37) cpt_chris: no problem

(2009-08-04 21:02:13) MrCaptain: ok, reassembling time

(2009-08-04 21:02:26) MrCaptain: a quick question

(2009-08-04 21:02:46) MrCaptain: who can vote? anybody who has sent in either their payment or their form; or do they have to send in both?

(2009-08-04 21:02:53) MrCaptain: or something else?

(2009-08-04 21:02:57) JakeDaynes: !

(2009-08-04 21:03:03) MrCaptain: go JakeDaynes

(2009-08-04 21:03:06) Tyler_Lerang_J: !

(2009-08-04 21:03:22) JakeDaynes: I think that until we have a solid member base that has done both, we should accept from either or at this point in time

(2009-08-04 21:03:23) JakeDaynes: eof

(2009-08-04 21:03:26) shep: !

(2009-08-04 21:03:29) MrCaptain: go Tyler_Lerang_J

(2009-08-04 21:03:49) Tyler_Lerang_J: I think it hsould be anyone that ahs forms in

(2009-08-04 21:03:54) Tyler_Lerang_J: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:04:02) MrCaptain: go shep

(2009-08-04 21:04:39) shep: I think that voting should only be for those who have officially declared for the party, as it should help boost our official numbers.

(2009-08-04 21:04:40) shep: eof

(2009-08-04 21:04:53) Odemia: !

(2009-08-04 21:04:58) MrCaptain: go Odemia 21:05

(2009-08-04 21:05:26) Odemia: I agree with shep due to the issues with paying for membership I don't think we can reasonably ask people to have payed at this time

(2009-08-04 21:05:36) Odemia: or anytime in the near future

(2009-08-04 21:05:38) Odemia: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:05:52) MrCaptain: anyone else?

(2009-08-04 21:06:05) MrCaptain: 3

(2009-08-04 21:06:06) MrCaptain: 2

(2009-08-04 21:06:07) MrCaptain: 1

(2009-08-04 21:06:08) JSagert: !

(2009-08-04 21:06:12) MrCaptain: go JSagert

(2009-08-04 21:06:14) steve-mac: !

(2009-08-04 21:06:43) JSagert: Move to vote if we should accept both unpaid and paid voters.

(2009-08-04 21:06:53) JSagert: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:07:02) MrCaptain: go steve-mac

(2009-08-04 21:07:06) MrCaptain: one more after

(2009-08-04 21:07:11) MrCaptain: then we vote

(2009-08-04 21:07:37) shep: !

(2009-08-04 21:07:46) steve-mac: please remember that jacks cannot vote, so votes need to be counted manually

(2009-08-04 21:07:47) steve-mac: eof

(2009-08-04 21:07:51) JSagert: !

(2009-08-04 21:08:00) MrCaptain: go shep

(2009-08-04 21:08:19) shep: Move for two votes

(sorry). 1) Can both Paid and Unpaid members vote? 2) Can both declared and undeclared members vote?

(2009-08-04 21:08:21) shep: eof

(2009-08-04 21:08:37) Jacks: !

(2009-08-04 21:08:40) MrCaptain: go JSagert and then we do voting

(2009-08-04 21:09:02) MrCaptain: and then Jacks :P after that we do voting....for sure this time!

(2009-08-04 21:09:16) JSagert: VoteBot has been modified to use nickname-based vote duplication prevention, we shan't need to manually count, only for verification.

(2009-08-04 21:09:18) JSagert: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:09:29) MrCaptain: go Jacks

(2009-08-04 21:09:52) Jacks: Just a point of clarification really - is this just for the NPC part, as in the elections that will be soon?

(2009-08-04 21:09:59) Jacks: Or is this for when the party exists? 21:10

(2009-08-04 21:10:13) MrCaptain: elections

(2009-08-04 21:10:17) MrCaptain: not so much NPC

(2009-08-04 21:10:32) Jacks: So, all elections for the party?

(2009-08-04 21:10:39) BobJonkman: !

(2009-08-04 21:10:47) Jacks: Even after it exists? Because I would classify them as two different things....

(2009-08-04 21:10:48) MrCaptain: Party yes, Fund we can discuss later

(2009-08-04 21:10:49) Jacks: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:11:06) MrCaptain: lets discuss in #debates. go BobJonkman

(2009-08-04 21:11:14) BobJonkman: There's a big difference in voting for a party president, treasurer, secretary, &c. and voting for a party leader,

(2009-08-04 21:11:26) BobJonkman: Voting for party policy issues is different yet again

(2009-08-04 21:11:28) BobJonkman: eof

(2009-08-04 21:11:37) MrCaptain: yup good point. ok voting time

(2009-08-04 21:12:06) VoteBot: [VOTE] Vote started: Should you have to pay to vote? [Please vote by saying JUST yay or nay, or say abstain to abstain from voting. [Use all lowercase letters.])

(2009-08-04 21:12:12) BobJonkman: nay

(2009-08-04 21:12:14) shep: nay

(2009-08-04 21:12:15) JakeDaynes: nay

(2009-08-04 21:12:15) JSagert: nay

(2009-08-04 21:12:16) phrozn: nay

(2009-08-04 21:12:18) Odemia: nay

(2009-08-04 21:12:20) MrCaptain: Note: use ? to ask for clarifications

(2009-08-04 21:12:30) Nuitari: nay

(2009-08-04 21:12:39) Tyler_Lerang_J: abstain

(2009-08-04 21:12:41) MrCaptain: 3

(2009-08-04 21:12:41) VoteBot: NOTE: Manual vote count must be uused.

(2009-08-04 21:12:41) shep: ? said I already voted?

(2009-08-04 21:12:43) Jacks: **I would vote nay only if this is before it exists

(2009-08-04 21:12:54) Nuitari: ? it says that I already voted

(2009-08-04 21:12:57) steve-mac: yay

(2009-08-04 21:13:02) MrCaptain: 2

(2009-08-04 21:13:02) Tyler_Lerang_J: it said that i already abstained...

(2009-08-04 21:13:07) Jacks: Once we're a federal party.... you should have to be a fully registered member

(2009-08-04 21:13:10) Jacks: yay

(2009-08-04 21:13:14) MrCaptain: JSagert: fix VoteBot ;)

(2009-08-04 21:13:17) steve-mac: says I already voted =

(

(2009-08-04 21:13:20) smashagnome: nay

(2009-08-04 21:13:23) MrCaptain: 1

(2009-08-04 21:13:32) MrCaptain: ok done

(2009-08-04 21:13:36) JSagert: Manual vote count is necessary.

(2009-08-04 21:13:42) JSagert: Until bot is fixed.

(2009-08-04 21:14:35) JakeDaynes: 8 nay 1 abstain

(2009-08-04 21:14:54) MrCaptain: so to clarify, this is the pre-registered-party voting 21:15

(2009-08-04 21:15:13) Jacks:

(and 2 yays)

(2009-08-04 21:15:23) MrCaptain: once we have a registered party, we should require that they are full members, which means that they are both paid and sent their form in

(2009-08-04 21:15:26) MrCaptain: anyway, next vote

(2009-08-04 21:15:56) VoteBot left the room

(quit: Quit: Bot must be offline to be fixed.).

(2009-08-04 21:16:06) JSagert: ! Sorry about that.

(2009-08-04 21:16:15) MrCaptain: Should you have to send in your form to vote?

(2009-08-04 21:16:30) Odemia: yay

(2009-08-04 21:16:31) JSagert: yay

(2009-08-04 21:16:32) shep: yay

(2009-08-04 21:16:40) JakeDaynes: nay

(2009-08-04 21:16:43) Nuitari: yay

(2009-08-04 21:16:48) Tyler_Lerang_J: yay

(2009-08-04 21:16:50) BobJonkman: yay

(2009-08-04 21:16:53) steve-mac: abstain

(2009-08-04 21:17:00) JakeDaynes: !

(2009-08-04 21:17:14) MrCaptain: go JakeDaynes

(2009-08-04 21:17:33) JakeDaynes: I think maybe using an either or system might work best at this point, so if you have done one or the other you are entitled to vote?

(2009-08-04 21:17:35) JakeDaynes: eof

(2009-08-04 21:17:47) Jacks: +1

(2009-08-04 21:17:56) MrCaptain: ok then, one more vote

(2009-08-04 21:18:00) Odemia: !

(2009-08-04 21:18:00) steve-mac: +1

(2009-08-04 21:18:06) MrCaptain: go Odemia

(2009-08-04 21:18:21) JSagert: [MANUAL COUNT] 6 yays, 1 nay, 1 abstained.

(2009-08-04 21:18:25) Odemia: The form is a declaration to elections canada that you are a party member

(2009-08-04 21:18:52) Odemia: it is also a matter of proving that you are a realy person

(2009-08-04 21:19:02) Odemia: and now I realize that the CRM does that too

(2009-08-04 21:19:03) JakeDaynes: !!

(2009-08-04 21:19:05) Odemia: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:19:33) MrCaptain: VOTE: Should you be able to vote if you have either a) sent your form; or b) sent your payment?

(2009-08-04 21:19:41) JakeDaynes: yay

(2009-08-04 21:19:42) shep: nay

(2009-08-04 21:19:44) BobJonkman: nay

(2009-08-04 21:19:49) Jacks: yay

(2009-08-04 21:19:52) steve: yay

(2009-08-04 21:19:53) Nuitari: yay

(2009-08-04 21:19:55) Cyclonis: yay

(2009-08-04 21:19:57) JSagert: yay 21:20

(2009-08-04 21:20:02) Odemia: yay

(2009-08-04 21:20:16) wasmeee: yay

(2009-08-04 21:20:21) MrCaptain: closing vote in: 3

(2009-08-04 21:20:23) MrCaptain: 2

(2009-08-04 21:20:28) MrCaptain: 1

(2009-08-04 21:20:30) MrCaptain: closed

(2009-08-04 21:20:43) MrCaptain: VOTE: 8 yay, 2 nay

(2009-08-04 21:21:14) MrCaptain: so people can vote if they've sent their payment or their form

(or both obviously)

(2009-08-04 21:21:15) MrCaptain: next issue

(2009-08-04 21:21:40) MrCaptain: tasks management: i think mantis is a little too much overhead for managing tasks

(2009-08-04 21:21:48) MrCaptain: should we just stick to a wiki page?

(2009-08-04 21:21:53) Jacks: !

(2009-08-04 21:21:57) MrCaptain: go Jacks

(2009-08-04 21:22:31) Jacks: Whatever we use on the tech side, I think we need one person overlooking each section to ensure that things are being worked on, or to organize it a bit

(2009-08-04 21:22:49) Jacks: With a bit more on that side the wiki would be fine

(2009-08-04 21:22:53) robbrit: !

(2009-08-04 21:23:04) Jacks: and updated a little more often, with people knowing what needs to be done and what's already in the works

(2009-08-04 21:23:05) Jacks: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:23:09) MrCaptain: go robbrit

(2009-08-04 21:23:13) robbrit: yeah thats mainly my job

(2009-08-04 21:23:29) robbrit: i was just wondering if people wanted to use something special or were cool with just a wiki

(2009-08-04 21:23:31) robbrit: eof

(2009-08-04 21:23:33) Jacks: !

(2009-08-04 21:23:38) MrCaptain: go Jacks

(2009-08-04 21:24:02) Jacks: Just to clarify my point, I meant for "Promotion" there would be an overseer, and each of the overall sections, such as one for "Code and Policy" or something of the sorts

(2009-08-04 21:24:05) Jacks: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:24:23) Odemia: +1

(2009-08-04 21:24:31) steve: +1

(2009-08-04 21:24:34) JakeDaynes: +1

(2009-08-04 21:24:38) MrCaptain: cool, I think the best way to go for that is to have each officer manage their section

(2009-08-04 21:24:59) Odemia: !! 21:25

(2009-08-04 21:25:01) MrCaptain: ie. CTO manages technical stuff, CMO does marketing, etc.

(2009-08-04 21:25:03) MrCaptain: go Odemia

(2009-08-04 21:25:16) Odemia: Just coment that you say offcier.

(2009-08-04 21:25:37) Odemia: That shows that we need to igve officers a mandate through meeting like this

(2009-08-04 21:25:51) Odemia: so that they can go ahead with confidence

(2009-08-04 21:25:53) Odemia: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:25:58) MrCaptain: ok good point

(2009-08-04 21:26:21) MrCaptain: there will be tasks assigned to the party officers listed in our wiki here: http://wiki.piratepartyofcanada.com/index.php/Party_Officer_Nominations

(2009-08-04 21:26:43) MrCaptain: ok next topic: website

(2009-08-04 21:26:46) MrCaptain: what's the status on that?

(2009-08-04 21:26:52) JSagert: !

(2009-08-04 21:26:59) MrCaptain: go JSagert

(2009-08-04 21:27:21) BobJonkman: !

(2009-08-04 21:27:40) JSagert: We have to test out a plugin for localization, most likely xLanguage.

(2009-08-04 21:27:55) JSagert: I have the french graphics created.

(2009-08-04 21:28:17) JSagert: There are a few blank pages which need content.

(2009-08-04 21:28:36) JSagert: I move to release English site first, and French site as it comes.

(2009-08-04 21:28:38) JSagert: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:28:48) MrCaptain: go BobJonkman

(2009-08-04 21:29:04) BobJonkman: There should be only one definitive site for the party, pirateparty.ca is good. But all the public forum discussions are a detriment to the party being taken seriously. Blogs, wiki, forums and other user-generated content should go on a site that's distinctly labelled "These are not the opinions or policy of the party"

(2009-08-04 21:29:07) BobJonkman: efe

(2009-08-04 21:29:09) BobJonkman: oef

(2009-08-04 21:29:15) BobJonkman: eof :)

(2009-08-04 21:29:27) MrCaptain: Hmm, that's definitely a good point

(2009-08-04 21:29:51) MrCaptain: Let's talk in #debates about what we should do there 21:30

(2009-08-04 21:30:10) MrCaptain: any other website comments?

(2009-08-04 21:30:19) steve: +1

(2009-08-04 21:30:23) steve: to bob's comment

(2009-08-04 21:30:48) MrCaptain: Ok so I have one comment about the website

(2009-08-04 21:30:49) Odemia: +1

(2009-08-04 21:31:00) MrCaptain: JSagert: are you managing the content, or do you need anybody else to help you?

(2009-08-04 21:31:55) JSagert: - I'm merely design, I don't really feel too confident managing the content. I -can- however add the content when it's given to me.

(2009-08-04 21:32:03) JSagert: design/function*

(2009-08-04 21:32:17) JSagert: Managing -> creating

(2009-08-04 21:32:23) MrCaptain: Ok, let's put out a call for writers

(2009-08-04 21:32:52) Tyler_Lerang_J: *ears perk up

(2009-08-04 21:32:58) Tyler_Lerang_J: !

(2009-08-04 21:33:06) MrCaptain: go Tyler_Lerang_J

(2009-08-04 21:33:07) Tyler_Lerang_J: what do u need me for?

(2009-08-04 21:33:11) Jacks: !

(2009-08-04 21:33:19) Tyler_Lerang_J: cause im a writer ot an extent

(2009-08-04 21:33:20) Tyler_Lerang_J: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:33:24) MrCaptain: go Jacks

(2009-08-04 21:33:59) Jacks: I've been trying to fill in some of the blanks when possible, and can continue to do so if needed... But if someone else wants to, that's probably a good call :)

(2009-08-04 21:34:08) Jacks: Also, do we have a contact email for volunteers yet?

(2009-08-04 21:34:27) Jacks: or anything along those lines? It would come in handy to encourage people to get involved on the website imo

(2009-08-04 21:34:40) Odemia: !

(2009-08-04 21:34:49) Jacks: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:34:55) MrCaptain: Tyler_Lerang_J: work out the details for JSagert for wordpress access 21:35

(2009-08-04 21:35:05) Tyler_Lerang_J: kk

(2009-08-04 21:35:06) MrCaptain: go Odemia

(2009-08-04 21:35:16) Odemia: Volunteer section of forums is dead we need to bring it back or replace it with something else

(2009-08-04 21:35:27) Jacks: _1

(2009-08-04 21:35:29) Jacks: *** +1

(2009-08-04 21:35:36) steve: 1

(2009-08-04 21:35:37) steve: +1

(2009-08-04 21:35:41) Odemia: eiterh startposting these tasks in there or find a new place

(2009-08-04 21:35:44) Odemia: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:35:57) Jacks: !

(2009-08-04 21:36:03) MrCaptain: Yep I'm noting these things

(2009-08-04 21:36:05) MrCaptain: go Jacks

(2009-08-04 21:36:43) Jacks: Just to follow up with that, we could have someone with an email address for volunteer@pp or whatever, and the same person watching the forums...

(2009-08-04 21:37:12) Jacks: and actually contact the people who want to get involved, and lead them towards a specific thing

(do they want to design or write? send them to x person)

(2009-08-04 21:37:15) Jacks: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:37:51) MrCaptain: Ok good plan. I just posted in the forums about writers, I'll add topics for the other spots too.

(2009-08-04 21:38:02) MrCaptain: next topic: NPC bylaws

(2009-08-04 21:38:04) Odemia: !

(2009-08-04 21:38:09) MrCaptain: go Odemia

(2009-08-04 21:38:47) Odemia: SOrry one last thing about volunteer/writers, I would be willing to maintain a section off the front page that would basically mirror the volunteer section

(2009-08-04 21:38:48) Odemia: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:38:58) Odemia: !

(2009-08-04 21:39:06) Odemia: for NPC stuff now

(2009-08-04 21:39:06) MrCaptain: go Odemia :)

(2009-08-04 21:39:15) Odemia: The NPC Bylaws are mostly done. There are a few things that are missing: clarification of the the powers of the Board of Directors, adding a section for officers

(required). Other than that we need to review them. If anyone knows a law student who would be willing to proof read it would be helpful.

(2009-08-04 21:39:41) Odemia: I should be able to finish up the necesarry changes within 2 days. From there should just be proof reading.

(2009-08-04 21:39:44) Odemia: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:39:56) JSagert: !! 21:40

(2009-08-04 21:40:02) MrCaptain: go JSagert

(2009-08-04 21:40:47) JSagert: I'm a self-acclaimed grammar/spelling buff, is it okay if I proofread?

(2009-08-04 21:40:48) JSagert: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:40:52) fx: §win 27

(2009-08-04 21:41:42) MrCaptain: anybody who wants to proofread can proofread

(2009-08-04 21:41:56) MrCaptain: I'll be doing it too, the more eyes the better

(2009-08-04 21:42:20) MrCaptain: as for a law-inclined person, i'll put a post in the forums, however we'll probably need a bit more work digging someone up

(2009-08-04 21:42:44) Tyler_Lerang_J: !

(2009-08-04 21:42:48) MrCaptain: the bylaws draft is here: http://wiki.piratepartyofcanada.com/index.php/NPC_Bylaws_draft

(2009-08-04 21:42:51) MrCaptain: go Tyler_Lerang_J

(2009-08-04 21:43:01) Tyler_Lerang_J: I wnat to be the general writer for the Party

(2009-08-04 21:43:13) Tyler_Lerang_J: not like write up bills and such, but biographys, scripts, speeches

(2009-08-04 21:43:20) Tyler_Lerang_J: that general stuff.

(2009-08-04 21:43:21) Tyler_Lerang_J: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:43:32) MrCaptain: sure, let's talk about that more tomorrow

(2009-08-04 21:43:49) MrCaptain: ok so I'm going to skim over the next topics

(2009-08-04 21:44:46) MrCaptain: local meetings - if you've decided on the next social meeting date/place, let robbrit or JakeDaynes know so that they can post them to Twitter and Facebook 21:45

(2009-08-04 21:45:02) MrCaptain: these are quite important since they show that we are real people and not just forum dwellers

(2009-08-04 21:45:13) BobJonkman: !

(2009-08-04 21:45:18) MrCaptain: go BobJonkman

(2009-08-04 21:45:24) Jacks: !

(2009-08-04 21:45:26) BobJonkman: Need to reach out to off-line people

(2009-08-04 21:45:33) Tyler_Lerang_J: !

(2009-08-04 21:45:43) BobJonkman: I'm not much good at that. How should that be done?

(2009-08-04 21:45:44) BobJonkman: eof

(2009-08-04 21:45:50) MrCaptain: go Jacks

(2009-08-04 21:46:13) shep: !

(2009-08-04 21:46:15) Jacks: For the next local meeting, is there sort of a list topics that should be discussed?

(2009-08-04 21:46:31) shep: X

(2009-08-04 21:46:51) Jacks: Is there anything that we really want to come out of these meetings? I'll be hosting one in Kelowna this time, and it might be nice - for example, should we discuss a national event for sept 19th

(to be held locally of course)

(2009-08-04 21:47:03) Jacks: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:47:08) MrCaptain: not at the moment, but let's get one going. one thing for sure will be to get forms filled out

(2009-08-04 21:47:51) Jacks: Awesome :)

(2009-08-04 21:47:54) MrCaptain: ok so one more topic tonight

(2009-08-04 21:48:02) MrCaptain: we need some people to work on the manifesto

(2009-08-04 21:48:09) MrCaptain: make it match our goals

(2009-08-04 21:48:55) MrCaptain: any volunteers?

(2009-08-04 21:49:05) Tyler_Lerang_J: !

(2009-08-04 21:49:11) MrCaptain: go Tyler_Lerang_J

(2009-08-04 21:49:19) Tyler_Lerang_J: Manifesto? cna u please just clarify for that for me?

(2009-08-04 21:49:25) Tyler_Lerang_J: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:49:30) Odemia: !

(2009-08-04 21:49:34) MrCaptain: Basically it's our raison-d'etre

(2009-08-04 21:49:36) MrCaptain: go Odemia 21:50

(2009-08-04 21:50:01) Odemia: I can move over to the manifesto after the NPC Bylaws

(2009-08-04 21:50:04) Odemia: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:50:19) MrCaptain: ok, sounds good

(2009-08-04 21:50:28) MrCaptain: if you need any help let me know

(2009-08-04 21:50:30) MrCaptain:

(robbrit)

(2009-08-04 21:50:44) shep: !

(2009-08-04 21:50:47) MrCaptain: go shep

(2009-08-04 21:50:55) Tyler_Lerang_J: !

(2009-08-04 21:51:09) shep: Should our manifesto be presented in a video form, or some other type of new media?

(2009-08-04 21:51:29) shep: As to increase the likelyhood of it being shared online.

(2009-08-04 21:51:31) shep: eof

(2009-08-04 21:51:37) MrCaptain: go Tyler_Lerang_J

(2009-08-04 21:51:45) Tyler_Lerang_J: This is directed to Odemia

(2009-08-04 21:51:55) Tyler_Lerang_J: If you want I can work on the Manifesto

(2009-08-04 21:52:01) Tyler_Lerang_J: and help you with the By-lws

(2009-08-04 21:52:03) MrCaptain: Odemia: feel free to respond without asking

(2009-08-04 21:52:05) Odemia: +10000

(2009-08-04 21:52:11) Tyler_Lerang_J: but if i fully take on Bylaws

(2009-08-04 21:52:14) Tyler_Lerang_J: im gonan be swamped

(2009-08-04 21:52:23) Tyler_Lerang_J: cause im gonna be also trying to recruit and manage halifax

(2009-08-04 21:52:27) Tyler_Lerang_J: plus a job

(2009-08-04 21:52:34) Tyler_Lerang_J: EOF

(2009-08-04 21:53:00) MrCaptain: yeah let's not give one person too many tasks

(2009-08-04 21:53:17) MrCaptain: anyway that wraps up our meeting

(2009-08-04 21:53:31) MrCaptain: you can talk normally now if there's anything else you want to discuss

(2009-08-04 21:53:31) Tyler_Lerang_J: !!!!

(2009-08-04 21:53:38) Tyler_Lerang_J: I ahve oen thing important i want to say

(2009-08-04 21:53:42) shep: Thanks MrCaptain.

(2009-08-04 21:53:45) Tyler_Lerang_J: well a topic

(2009-08-04 21:53:50) wasmeee: !

(2009-08-04 21:54:01) Tyler_Lerang_J: Once the website is up

(2009-08-04 21:54:07) Tyler_Lerang_J: i propose we take the media by storm

(2009-08-04 21:54:20) Tyler_Lerang_J: for advertising of our party and to boost membership

(2009-08-04 21:54:30) robbrit: yeah definitely

(2009-08-04 21:54:32) Odemia: !

(2009-08-04 21:54:33) Tyler_Lerang_J: we shouold go to our locat tv stations and newspaper

(2009-08-04 21:54:41) robbrit: oops

(2009-08-04 21:54:42) Tyler_Lerang_J: and freakin announce to the heavens

(2009-08-04 21:54:47) Jacks: *

(2009-08-04 21:54:51) Tyler_Lerang_J: that the pirate Party of Canada

(2009-08-04 21:54:55) Jacks: !

(2009-08-04 21:54:58) Tyler_Lerang_J: Is in buizzness 21:55

(2009-08-04 21:55:01) Tyler_Lerang_J: Jack?

(2009-08-04 21:55:08) Tyler_Lerang_J: wai...

(2009-08-04 21:55:11) Tyler_Lerang_J: Wasmee.,

(2009-08-04 21:55:20) Tyler_Lerang_J: ...

(2009-08-04 21:55:23) Tyler_Lerang_J: just say what u want

(2009-08-04 21:55:37) Jacks: Maybe we should have an actual leader before we go towards tv and media, etc?

(2009-08-04 21:55:38) robbrit: yeah lets just go to regular discussion now

(2009-08-04 21:55:59) robbrit: wasmeee and Odemia: feel free to say what you wanted to say

(2009-08-04 21:56:01) Tyler_Lerang_J: the thing is

(2009-08-04 21:56:05) Tyler_Lerang_J: jack

(2009-08-04 21:56:11) Tyler_Lerang_J: we need to push

(2009-08-04 21:56:16) Tyler_Lerang_J: because we got like 10%

(2009-08-04 21:56:21) Tyler_Lerang_J: of the required 250

(2009-08-04 21:56:25) Tyler_Lerang_J: as far as i know

(2009-08-04 21:56:26) JSagert: Is the meeting considered over, or is this general discussion?

(2009-08-04 21:56:26) wasmeee: do we have an ETA on when the website will be done?

(2009-08-04 21:56:42) robbrit: JSagert: mostly over, Tyler_Lerang_J is making some closing remarks

(2009-08-04 21:56:55) Tyler_Lerang_J: We need to boost it

(2009-08-04 21:57:01) robbrit: for Toronto/Montreal and environs people: http://www.pirateparty.ca/forum/read.php?7,2725

(2009-08-04 21:57:08) Tyler_Lerang_J: so that the election can be immediately followed by the completion of the party

(2009-08-04 21:57:13) Tyler_Lerang_J: or at least very well dman close

(2009-08-04 21:57:24) Tyler_Lerang_J: and i think this is about the best opportunity

(2009-08-04 21:57:32) Jacks: Tyler, just as a note, please don't call me Jack lol Jacks or Jackie works

(2009-08-04 21:57:42) Tyler_Lerang_J: srry

(2009-08-04 21:57:50) Tyler_Lerang_J: yes i knwo ur a girl...

(2009-08-04 21:57:55) Jacks: It's alright, just future notice

(2009-08-04 21:58:00) Tyler_Lerang_J: but ye

(2009-08-04 21:58:12) JSagert: wasmeee: This coming sunday.

(2009-08-04 21:58:15) Tyler_Lerang_J: Im gonna try typing up at least a base letter for newspaper agencys

(2009-08-04 21:58:21) Tyler_Lerang_J: for us to use

(2009-08-04 21:58:30) Odemia: Was just going to say that we should also have something for the consultations

(2009-08-04 21:58:33) Tyler_Lerang_J: and if they ask for the occasion

(2009-08-04 21:58:47) Odemia: I have started my own subbmission for the consulations and would volunteer to help with an official party one. I would like 2 or 3 people to work on this to turn out a top notch submission to put the party name on. We don't have a lot of time. But I think this is a golden oppotunity to draw people in.

(2009-08-04 21:58:48) Tyler_Lerang_J: we tell them that we are ready

(2009-08-04 21:58:55) Odemia: http://wiki.piratepartyofcanada.com/index.php/User:Odemia/Sandbox/Copyright_Consultation_Submission

(2009-08-04 21:59:03) wasmeee: JSagert: ok. Thanks. I'm waiting for the website before I try to lobby a few more people at UBC to join.

(Unfortunately my circle of friends is rather small.)

(2009-08-04 21:59:09) shep: Odemia: Great idea. 22:00

(2009-08-04 22:00:06) JakeDaynes: Hmm...hold on

(2009-08-04 22:00:12) JSagert: MrCaptain: Move for the meeting to be adjourned as of 10PM EST?

(2009-08-04 22:00:21) JakeDaynes: seconded

(2009-08-04 22:00:37) MrCaptain: Meeting is ajourned. MrCaptain is off.