GM 2011-01-30 transcript

From Pirate Party of Canada

(20:15) <rintaran>I was put out for it Friday afternoon. Sunday morning I was moving between 
houses with all my stuff. By monday I was pulling a 12-hour shift shovelling asphalt
(20:15) <MikkelPaulson>all right
(20:15) <MikkelPaulson>sorry again for the short notice on the debate
(20:15) <MikkelPaulson>it took a while to find a time that worked for all of the candidates
(20:15) <MikkelPaulson>but thanks to those who could make it, anyway
(20:15) <MikkelPaulson>we'll be posting minutes and transcript afterwards for anyone who 
wasn't able to be here
(20:16) <MikkelPaulson>any questions or comments before we get started?
(20:16) <MikkelPaulson>I'll give each candidate a 5-minute opening statement, then we'll go 
for a Q&A format
(20:16) <MikkelPaulson>followed by 3-minute closing statements
(20:16) <MikkelPaulson>order of responses will be determined randomly
(20:17) <MikkelPaulson>okay, that being the case, we'll get started
(20:18) <MikkelPaulson>type /msg sb speakers list for the order of speakers
(20:18) <MikkelPaulson>Steve?
(20:18) <SteveHenderson>Yeah one sec
(20:18) <MikkelPaulson>no prob
(20:19) <SteveHenderson>First of all I was to apologize for being unable to attend the 
upcoming shawdow council on the third. Life has a tendancy to get in the way of things.
(20:19) <SteveHenderson>Well, actually that's really all I have to say beyond Q&As.
(20:19) <MikkelPaulson>okay then
(20:20) <MikkelPaulson>moving along
(20:20) <MikkelPaulson>by the way, you can type /msg sb speakers end once you're done your 
speech
(20:21) <Ayes>Hey folks, I'm a candidate for Director-at-Large, too.
(20:22) <Ayes>My name's Shawn. I threw a rally out here in Vancouver in support of Wikileaks 
that was one of the most attended PPCA rallies ever.
(20:23) <MikkelPaulson>any other comments?
(20:24) <Ayes>Yes, one moment.
(20:24) <MikkelPaulson>okay, no prob
(20:24) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute remains
(20:24) <Ayes>I think the future of our party depends on Public Relations. I've started a 
project to create a series of informational videos in the forums- I encourage you all to 
contribute. I think between this and other big public relations projects (with a focus on 
sharing information) could bring us the support we need.
(20:24) <Ayes>And local support is very important.
(20:25) <Ayes>In individual communities we need to have groups of pirates. Not just one per 
city.
(20:25) <Ayes>And PR is how we do it.
(20:25) <Ayes>And we need to be more active!
(20:25) <Ayes>All of us!
(20:25) <Ayes>That's all, I guess.
(20:25) <MikkelPaulson>thanks
(20:26) <rintaran>Fellow Party members, I'd like to thank all of you for attending tonight. 
As some of you know, I've had some minor experience politically in the past. I was elected 
President of the 12th Timmins Venturers, and acted as youth representative for their regional 
council.
(20:26) <rintaran>Following that, I became involed with the New Democratic Party, helping to 
get Paul Dewar elected in Ottawa-Centre following the resignation of Ed Broadbent.
(20:26) <rintaran>I volunteered at their offices throughout the election campaign while I 
earned my degree in English Literature from Carleton University.
(20:27) <rintaran>As I graduated with high honours, I relocated to North Bay where I went on 
to obtain my Bachelor of Education.
(20:28) <rintaran>Following that, I've founded a number of writing and events groups in both 
Timmins and Sudbury. As a result of my experience in running events, I returned to our 
nation's capital to obtain a graduate certificate in event management.
(20:29) <rintaran>I joined the Pirate Party at the same time, and have been acting as the 
Federal Clerk since shortly after I signed on. I've also been elected to both the Event 
Management Program Council, and to Algonquin College's Student Council.
(20:29) <rintaran>In all of these rolls, as in my experience as a manager of an electronics 
retail store during my time in Sudbury, getting things organized and running smoothly has 
always been a major priority.
(20:30) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute remains
(20:30) <rintaran>It is this aspect that I plan to push forward as a Director-at-Large. It is 
my belief that Events are one of the prime ways of gaining membership and interest.
(20:31) <rintaran>I hope you will take the time to vote for me in the upcoming election. 
Thank-you once again for coming. I hope you'll take the time to listen to what we all have to 
say this evening.
(20:31) <MikkelPaulson>and time
(20:31) <MikkelPaulson>thanks
(20:32) <MikkelPaulson>before we move on to TravisMmmm's statements, I'd like to invite those 
of you with questions to add yourselves to the list
(20:32) <MikkelPaulson>as noted, type /msg speakers add to do so
(20:33) <TravisMmmm>Hello, I am Travis McCrea -- I am currently writing from the formation of 
the Washington State (US) Pirate Party. I pride myself that I have met more Canadian Pirate 
Party members than almost everyone, and I have met more Pirate Party members than anyone in 
North America. 
(20:33) <TravisMmmm>I used to be the Promotions Officer of the United States, I am a Canadian 
Citizen (obviously) and was the originator of the Canadian Wikileaks Rallies, and help put 
forth the committee to get a bus for the party. I like to say that my desire for us to be 
more grassroots oriented and on the streets is not only reflected by what I have proposed, 
but what I have
(20:33) <TravisMmmm>done: I have already done on the ground campaigning in both United States 
(twice) and in Canada (once)
(20:34) <TravisMmmm>There are lots of areas that we need work, but I think that if we have a 
more active ground presence the other suggestions that I have all will come together more 
(more people, more money, more everything)
(20:36) <TravisMmmm>I know most of you are like "ehh hes an American", but I am Canadian, I 
love Canada (and have called the US Actions recently "terrorist" so I am not a normal 
American). Outside of that I have management experience, I am CEO and Chairman of a 
Non-Profit organization (which has the same values that we do). I think that my experience 
shows that I would be a grea
(20:36) <TravisMmmm>t director
(20:36) <TravisMmmm>and that I have the time and skills necessary to do it. 
(20:36) - casquerouge joined
(20:37) <TravisMmmm>I thank all of you guys for reading this, being active in the party, 
because thats what we need. I know with whoever we vote for hopefully we get more people like 
you.
(20:37) <MikkelPaulson>thanks folks
(20:38) <MikkelPaulson>I'm going to open free discussion, just try to respect whoever has the 
floor
(20:38) <MikkelPaulson>sorry I forgot the command in my own bot
(20:38) <MikkelPaulson>okay, Q&A time
(20:40) <MikkelPaulson>shadowjester:  your question?
(20:40) <shadowjester>Okay, first question. How do all of you feel about the CRTC's recent 
usage based billing ruling and Bell Canada's actions regarding their DSL broadband fees?
(20:40) <MikkelPaulson>anything else to ask at the moment?
(20:40) <shadowjester>Not at the moment.
(20:40) <MikkelPaulson>okay
(20:41) <PassePartouT>same old same old, they're showing that they don't have the public's 
best interest, could have been worse but clearly has lots of room for improvement to say the 
least
(20:42) <MikkelPaulson>sorry, I should mention that the candidates have 3 minutes to respond
(20:42) <MikkelPaulson>Steve?
(20:42) <SteveHenderson>I personally feel that the recent CRTC ruling on UBB is a complete 
slap in the face to Internet users. As technology progresses more and more bandwith is going 
to be required to share information. Furthermore, this ruling is (in my opinion) an assault 
on p2p technology, which is a primary enemy of central authority on the Internet.
(20:42) <SteveHenderson>the CRTC needs to be dissolved.
(20:43) <SteveHenderson>Admittedly I do not know a lot about Bell, as I'm with Telus.
(20:43) <SteveHenderson>Quite frankly, the CRTC is now a threat to freedom of information.
(20:44) <Ayes>I don't support it at all. It's a transparent effort to try to assure the 
long-term viability of cable networks, I think. It's another great example of business 
focusing on the past instead of the future. I don't have any faith in the CRTC either. 
Disbanding or reforming it should be a serious consideration.
(20:44) <TravisMmmm>I feel that UBB is silly. I don't know how I feel about the disbandment 
of CRTC but it needs to be condemned and we have to push for positive change. 
(20:45) <MikkelPaulson>TravisMmmm:  anything else?
(20:46) <TravisMmmm>No
(20:46) <MikkelPaulson>okay
(20:46) <MikkelPaulson>please let me know when you're finished
(20:46) <TravisMmmm>Okay
(20:48) <MikkelPaulson>guys, if it helps, you can prepare your question/response in advance 
to make things move a bit more quickly
(20:49) <MikkelPaulson>Ayes: you have 1 minute left if you still want to say something...
(20:50) <SteveHenderson>Perhaps additional time is needed to prepare statements, especially 
in such a "on the spot" manner.
(20:50) <MikkelPaulson>apparently
(20:50) <TravisMmmm>Was there any other question than the one asked
(20:50) <MikkelPaulson>well let's move on, we can come back to him if need be
(20:50) <Ayes>I already answered that question I thought.
(20:50) <MikkelPaulson>TravisMmmm: yes, one at a time though
(20:50) <rintaran>UBB is hardly new or unexpected. The same thing has happened in the past 
with electricity. The only reason this has more effect now, than with hydro, is because now 
we're dealing with the sharing of knowledge and not just with electricity.
(20:51) <SteveHenderson>Information is not a commodity in the same sense that water or 
electricity is.
(20:51) <rintaran>Our current world and culture have a much different view toward knowledge 
now, than we did to electricity when it was put on the meter. We feel that we need it all 
now, all the time.
(20:52) <rintaran>That is how we have developed. It doesn't make usage based billing right. I 
much prefer our previous method.
(20:53) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute remains
(20:53) <TravisMmmm>I am actually really sorry but I have to go in 7 minutes
(20:53) <rintaran>The CRTC has made more major errors lately than just UBB. It is for that 
reason that I see a major need to remove the CRTC, and build a new, independant commission to 
examine the way information is shared through all medians, and preserve it. Thank-you.
(20:53) <MikkelPaulson>okay TravisMmmm, we'll put you up next to respond to the next question
(20:54) <MikkelPaulson>thanks
(20:54) <MikkelPaulson>is this format working or do you just want to go to a straight 
free-for-all discussion?
(20:54) <TravisMmmm>Has it been asked? Or are you putting it now?
(20:54) <MikkelPaulson>not yet
(20:54) <MikkelPaulson>just want to sound off about the format first
(20:54) <MikkelPaulson>since I know it's going pretty slowly
(20:54) <MikkelPaulson>just want to make sure each candidate gets their chance to speak
(20:54) <rintaran>I prefer an orderly manner myself.
(20:55) <MikkelPaulson>okay, I'm assuming from the silence that no one has a preference, so 
we'll proceed
(20:56) <Woofcat>Three questions.
(20:56) <Woofcat>As the Pirate Party of Canada is a completely a Volenteer job. What is your 
current career and how do you plan to balance work, life, and the PPCA to ensure you can meet 
the demands of the job.
(20:56) <Woofcat>Do you have a plan to increase the ammount of communication from the PPCA 
leadership to party members and the public?
(20:56) <Woofcat>Do you have any background or understanding of how Networks between major 
corperations are managed or how agreements are formed? Do you consider yourself, well read on 
telecommunication?
(20:56) <MikkelPaulson>thanks
(20:57) <TravisMmmm>I have always put the Pirate Party first, I spend the most time on IRC 
(or at least top 3) than anyone else and even with a job, I would always ensure that I have 
enough time to dedicate to the Pirate Party (again right now I am doing two pirate party 
things at once). I think that the communication between leadership and members is important I 
would like more
(20:57) <TravisMmmm>communication, but of course we can't hold back progress because people 
want to be present for every meeting. 
(20:58) <TravisMmmm>I am sorry but I have to run for the rest. I encourage anyone who has 
further questions to email me me@travismccrea.com or call me (ask me for my number)
(20:59) <TravisMmmm>(starbucks is kicking us out)
(20:59) <MikkelPaulson>no problem
(20:59) <MikkelPaulson>if you want to post some followup statements later, you're welcome to 
do so
(21:02) <MikkelPaulson>Ayes: 1 minute remains?
(21:02) <Ayes>I currently work as a security guard and I have the luck of being able to spend 
5-6 hours a shift working on Pirate Party things if needed. Outside of work, I am also 
willing to dedicate time if needed.
(21:02) <Ayes>I advocate opening up to the members a little more, as a council.
(21:03) <Ayes>There seems to be a disconnect between the party and the leadership, and I'd 
like to work to bridge that.
(21:04) <MikkelPaulson>okay, time
(21:04) <MikkelPaulson>thanks Ayes
(21:04) <SteveHenderson> I am currently employed by Sobeys as a cashier. Recently I have 
requested a shift from full-time to part-time hours, in order to make additional time for 
PPCA activities. Furthermore, if I am elected as a federal council member, my work schedule 
will be adjusted to allow me to attend FC meetings on a regular basis. As far as 
communication between leadership and the userbase goes, I would love to encourage completely 
open discussion 
(21:06) <SteveHenderson> My knowledge as to how corporations network is lacking, as I try to 
distance myself from the corporate world. I feel that networking within the Pirate Party 
should be done in an open and transparent nature.
(21:06) <SteveHenderson>Primarily through social media and other Internet outlets, which are 
freely available to us.
(21:06) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute left
(21:07) <SteveHenderson>I am well versed in open discussion structured on the Internet, which 
is how PPCA should proceed in order to facilitate transparency.
(21:07) <MikkelPaulson>thanks Steve
(21:08) - JasonC joined
(21:08) <rintaran>During my time with the Pirate Party to date, I've already increased 
communication of information between the Federal Council and the General Assembly by keeping 
accurate minutes and transcripts, and posting them within a suitable amount of time after the 
meeting itself.
(21:08) <MikkelPaulson>I'd like to remind attendees that if you have any questions, type /msg 
sb speakers add and we'll get to them
(21:08) <rintaran>I am the person that pioneered the Clerk's Quality Guide, allowing current 
and future clerks to keep information presented in an easy to read standard. As a director-
at-large, I will continue my work to open communications. My e-mail is always accessible, and 
I try to get responses out quickly.
(21:09) <rintaran>Although the forums have their purpose, they're underutilized and contain a 
lot of information that is viewed only by a small segment of the general assembly.
(21:09) <rintaran>I look to connect through increased direct newsletters, and creation of a 
segment of the wiki to archive the newsletters as they go out, allowing people to go back and 
view them again in the future.
(21:10) <rintaran>Beyond the Pirate Party, I currently attend college, tutor, and volunteer 
with the Conference on Canadian Content in Speculative Arts and Literature. The later of 
these three tasks I have been considering reducing my involvement in for a couple of months.
(21:10) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(21:11) <rintaran>This would free up yet more time for me to dedicate to PPCA endeavours. I 
currently do work for the PPCA on the local level as well as the current federal clerk. This 
is only another avenue that I can embark on to make a real change in Canadian Society, and 
that's more important to me than other volunteer tasks.
(21:12) <MikkelPaulson>okay, thanks
(21:12) <rintaran>As I graduate in April, there will be lots of time for me to dedicate to 
both my job as an event manager and as a director at large. Many of the connections that I 
will have to make as one, will lend itself to my task at the other. The two jobs are linked, 
and I look forward to working for them both.
(21:12) <MikkelPaulson>sorry
(21:12) <Ayes>We should open ourselves up to the public with more frequent press releases, 
additional information sharing initiatives (we have to educate the part of our audience that 
doesn't know the things that we already know just because we really care)
(21:12) <SteveHenderson>^this
(21:13) <MikkelPaulson>my question is as follows:
(21:13) <MikkelPaulson>there are rumours of a spring election
(21:13) <MikkelPaulson>if the writ drops within 1 month of your election, what do you plan to 
do in the intervening time to prepare?
(21:15) <rintaran>Between now and the drop of a writ, should one occur within 1 month of my 
election as director-at-large, I look forward to working toward finishing a proper and 
complete platform to be approved by the general assembly.
(21:16) <rintaran>We been standing too long without a proper platform to run on, and the 
current directors and committees that have been assigned to work on one, have all become too 
preoccupied to complete this important task.
(21:17) <rintaran>As the platform is completed and approved by the general assembly, 
eye-catching brochures and posters need to be developed, university talks booked and 
implements, local events in areas across the country need to be run to get the message out 
and inform eligible voters.
(21:17) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute remains
(21:18) <rintaran>Only through co-operation and a drive to get things finished can we begin 
to push forward with our agenda as The Pirate Party of Canada. Our agenda is not secret, it 
is not hidden, it is the agenda of Transparency, Equality, and Accessibility.
(21:18) <rintaran>There is no time to dither on the important things. It's time to start the 
long push.
(21:18) <MikkelPaulson>okay, thanks
(21:18) <Ayes>I think it would be very important to immediate try to get our platform 
(whatever we have, platform-wise) out in the open. If we could get one of our members writing 
an opinion column for a newspaper or something, that would be amazing. Otherwise, it would 
benefit us to issue a press release encourage other parties to consider elements of our 
platform.
(21:18) <rintaran>Thank-you.
(21:18) <Ayes>Sorry.
(21:18) <MikkelPaulson>all yours
(21:19) <Ayes>to re-state:
(21:19) <Ayes>I think it would be very important to immediate try to get our platform 
(whatever we have, platform-wise) out in the open. If we could get one of our members writing 
an opinion column for a newspaper or something, that would be amazing. Otherwise, it would 
benefit us to issue a press release encourage other parties to consider elements of our 
platform.
(21:19) <Ayes>I'd immediately get to work on a series of promos for youtube that are themed 
after the election, trying to inform people how to vote right if there isn't a PPCA candidate 
in the area. 
(21:19) <Ayes>I would also do all I could to help whoever was campaigning in the greater 
vancouver area, going door to door and things like that. Organizing speaking engagements if 
possible. Our candidates are going to need help, and I am very willing to work behind the 
scenes to increase their visibility.
(21:20) <Ayes>I agree that we do need our platform finished. With all due respect, the fact 
that we don't have any sort of public platform currently speaks about the leadership of the 
party so far.
(21:21) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(21:21) <Ayes>I don't know where the focus has been for the party, but I think that platform 
should be square one, and there should have been a public working draft ages ago.
(21:22) <Ayes>I'd love to work with Shawn whether or not either of us are directors.
(21:23) <SteveHenderson> Given the event of a spring election, I feel that any allowed time 
should be spent promoting PPCA to youth through campaigns targeted at post secondary 
institutions and social outlets (e.g. music shows, cultural festivities, etc.). I generally 
agree with the emphasis placed on campaigning which has been mentioned by previous speakers.
(21:23) <SteveHenderson>However, I also have a question to ask (time allowing).
(21:23) <MikkelPaulson>be my guest
(21:24) <SteveHenderson> The refining of the Pirate Party's platform has been brought up more 
than once in this discussion. I assume this includes consideration of topics listed as 
"regular issues" on the PPCA wiki.
(21:25) <SteveHenderson>Our core platform is one that can appeal to many different groups, on 
radically different ends on the political spectrum.
(21:26) <SteveHenderson> For example, I know there are both libertarians and anarchists, in 
addition to far right groups (e.g. white supremacists) that are entirely opposed to 
censorship.
(21:26) <SteveHenderson> My question is how do you plan to structure
(21:26) <SteveHenderson>our platform so that our focus remains on our core values, and isn't 
dilluted by efforts that could seperate the party?
(21:28) <rintaran>To begin, the "core platform" listed on the site, isn't an official 
platform. It is currently only a very vague general guideline. Although some elements may not 
like order, there is a need for it when outlining our core platform.
(21:29) <rintaran>A platform contains not just vague ideas, but a partial roadmap that could 
lead us to achieving those ideas.
(21:30) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(21:30) <rintaran>I would organize the platform into two main elements: The long goals, and 
our objectives. The long goals need to be S.M.A.R.T. goals (specific, measured, agreed, 
realistic, and timed).
(21:31) <rintaran>The objectives set out shorter goals, steps along the road to our success.
(21:31) <rintaran>We'll need both of these, and a hell of a lot more to get where we want to 
be. That guideline needs to be hammered into a proper platform from which we can launch the 
party to success.
(21:31) <rintaran>Thank-you.
(21:32) <MikkelPaulson>thanks rintaran
(21:32) <Ayes>I think our platform ought to maintain a focus on digital issues and pirate 
issues. There is a way that technology and privacy interact with essentially any other 
regular issue and I think that is the way we should approach things that seem to be outside 
our platform. If we're going to include something in our platform, I think it should be 
justifiable
(21:32) <Ayes>back to one of our core values.
(21:33) <Ayes>But I also support broadening our core values to include things like protecting 
journalism, freeing culture, and facilitating the spread of information.
(21:34) <Ayes>I agree we have to be s.m.a.r.t.
(21:34) <Ayes>That's a cute little acronym, and it's appropriate.
(21:34) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(21:35) <Ayes>I also really like scientific or mathematical justification for points in our 
platform.
(21:35) <Ayes>That is all.
(21:35) <MikkelPaulson>thanks Ayes
(21:36) <MikkelPaulson>now SteveHenderson to respond to his own question
(21:36) <SteveHenderson>one moment
(21:38) <SteveHenderson> Structuring of our platform should be done with an emphasis placed 
on core Pirate Party values. There are some issues included in “regular issues” that in my 
opinion should be completely avoided for the time being (e.g. same-sex marriage, withdrawal 
of military forces, etc.). The Internet is currently under attack, and we cannot afford to be 
bureaucratic. Rintaran's S.M.A.R.T. Idea sounds excellent, but it should be executed wit
(21:38) <MikkelPaulson>you were cropped at "executed wit"
(21:38) <SteveHenderson>executed with a focus on pirate issues.
(21:38) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(21:38) <MikkelPaulson>okay, thanks
(21:38) <MikkelPaulson>next question
(21:39) <shadowjester>How do you all feel about Michael Geist's coverage of digital concerns?
(21:40) <MikkelPaulson>that's it?
(21:40) <shadowjester>Nope: one more part
(21:40) <shadowjester>Would you support his work, or potentially ask if he would get involved 
in some capacity with the PPCA, even as a topics advisor or an op-ed writer?
(21:40) <MikkelPaulson>thanks for the question
(21:41) <MikkelPaulson>just one point
(21:41) <MikkelPaulson>Geist has already been asked several times to get involved in the 
Pirate Party
(21:41) <MikkelPaulson>and has declined to do so
(21:41) <MikkelPaulson>however, we'll proceed anyhow
(21:42) <rintaran>Geist is both a hazard and an aid to the goals of the Pirate Party. As a 
fledgling party, getting him on board would be a fantastic win. However, to have him attend 
one of our functions and correct us would destroy any credibility we may have gained up to 
that moment.
(21:43) <rintaran>His coverage of digital concerns is good, it's interesting, it gets people 
to look things over. It is a little myopic however. Geist misses a lot of stuff, and 
continuously looks at things from the view of an academic.
(21:44) <rintaran>A fantastic academic, don't get me wrong, but as an academic, he sometimes 
lets some things go by without mention, or change his mind on a topic, when the way it 
affects academia changes.
(21:44) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(21:45) <rintaran>It's how he was no longer as upset about ACTA when they reopened the 
academic limitations.
(21:45) <rintaran>Getting him involved as an active advisor to the party would be great, but 
he's a man of personality. If we didn't let him take over, he would try to, and it could 
destroy us.
(21:46) <MikkelPaulson>time's up
(21:46) <rintaran>Thank-you.
(21:46) <Ayes>From what I have seen of Micheal Geist's coverage, he's one of the more 
reasonable voices on copyright. His coverage of C-32 proved valuable to me when I had never 
heard of C-32. 
(21:46) <Ayes>I support his work, and I'd be very happy to have him as a contributor. As it 
seems that he doesn't have interest or is not able to directly contribute, I am satisfied to 
just have him blogging on the subjects that are important to us. The more people who know, 
the better.
(21:47) <Ayes>I would be open to collaborating with him if we have a common goal in the 
future.
(21:48) <Ayes></>
(21:50) <MikkelPaulson>SteveHenderson: 1 minute remains
(21:50) <SteveHenderson>Michael Geist is in my opinion, generally a cool guy. His insight 
into C-32 provided a lot of information to the masses about the dangers of the digital lock 
provisions within the bill. Furthermore, any and all opposition to ACTA is excellent. Geist 
seems to doesn't afraid of anything in this manner, EXCEPT for acknowledging the problems 
with intellectual property and the incompatibility with the current copyright system in the 
digit
(21:51) <rintaran>(cut off at "digit")
(21:51) <SteveHenderson>copyright system in the digital age.
(21:52) <MikkelPaulson>and time
(21:52) <MikkelPaulson>thanks
(21:52) <SteveHenderson>His focus on the digital locks took attention away from the biggest 
problem in C-32: Pirating information would remain illegal.
(21:52) <SteveHenderson>At least iirc.
(21:52) <MikkelPaulson>any other questions before we wrap up?
(21:53) <MikkelPaulson>if so, type /msg sb speakers add
(21:54) <MikkelPaulson>seeing none, we'll move on to closing statements
(21:54) <Ayes>I have a question
(21:54) <MikkelPaulson>go for it
(21:55) <Ayes>Honorable speakers; how do you feel about the current status of the party, the 
current leadership, and the current objectives? What do you want to do to change the status 
quo not just in Canadian politics, but here in the party itself?
(21:57) <SteveHenderson> The only problem I have with the current leadership of the party is 
the strange use of censorship in the past. I speak of the Joseph Baptista issue. While crypto-
anarchistic concepts such as assassination politics are serious issues that are not to be 
taken lightly, extreme political positions are our right and it is wrong to censor ANYTHING.
(21:58) <SteveHenderson>To be clear, I do not advocate Jim Bell's idea, but the resulting 
drama from expelling Baptista is not worth any perceived damages especially since Joe was not 
representative of the party.
(21:59) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute remaining
(21:59) <SteveHenderson>I want to see a future position taken within the party that is 
completely opposed to censorship in any forms. Otherwise calling ourselves pirates is like 
calling the conservatives libertarians.
(22:00) <rintaran>I think the party thinks itself to be a larger entity than it actually is. 
Many of our members, are not actually members. Locally, we tried to contact many of those who 
payed on as members of the party to get a small meeting together to spread our ideas further. 
Many were actually upset at having been contacted.
(22:01) <rintaran>We need better communication, and a way to motivate the party membership to 
contact their friends and family and tell them about the party and its ideals. I still get 
many blank stares when I bring up the Pirate Party, even after the Winnipeg North Election.
(22:02) <rintaran>We've been too low-profile, and the current leadership has been far too 
slow to respond to most situations. Admittedly, that's due to being shorthanded, but there is 
help to be found when it is requested. It has not been, and that's one of the major 
shortcomings our party has had so far.
(22:02) <rintaran>Our goals are vague. Without specificity and a feasible timeline, nothing 
can be accomplished.
(22:03) <rintaran>We don't have proper objectives, in the true sense of the word. Only vague 
goals.
(22:03) <rintaran>These are things that we need to get running. We need to develop a proper 
marketing plan for the party, and we need to mobilize our ranks to put that plan into action.
(22:04) <rintaran>The leadership needs our help, and I'm going to give it to them. I 
challenge every registered member to do the same.
(22:04) <rintaran>Thank-you
(22:04) <Ayes>My most significant problem is our inactivity, and my perceived inactivity of 
the Federal council in particular. The forums are often abandoned for days at a time. We're 
slow, but what we need is to move at the speed of the internet. What the leadership is doing 
behind the scenes is a mystery to me.
(22:05) <Ayes>The front page hasn't been updated since before we voted on wikileaks. The 
mirror isn't up yet. On the website in several tucked away corners, it still lists Jake 
Daynes as the party leader.
(22:05) <Ayes>It's not that I doubt the capability of the leadership or that they are doing 
real work.
(22:05) <Ayes>In fact, I am convinced they all mean well and are likely doing work behind the 
scenes.
(22:06) <Ayes>There is a communication issue, and there is a motivation issue.
(22:06) <Ayes>We need to communicate effectively with each other, and the member base. If we 
need tinychat or skype to do this, we should consider this.  
(22:06) <Ayes>I'm afraid of self-censorship on the forums. We may need to have a public forum 
and private forum if people are going to be afraid to express their real opinions. We need 
daily input from all of our most informed, and thoughtful members, especially members of the 
council. 
(22:06) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute remains
(22:06) <Ayes>I agree with Steve's position that the censorship of Baptista may have been a 
mistake that is going to negatively affect us in the long run. We shouldn't encourage things 
like his behaviour, we should just set a high standard for who represents the party and who 
doesn't.
(22:07) <Ayes>The Pirate Party is a party of ideas, and even offensive ideas need to have 
their place if we're going to be anti-censorship and pro-freedom of speech, which I think it 
is very important that we are. Censorship is wrong, and we can't risk any appearance of not 
living by our ideals.
(22:07) <Ayes>Thank you.
(22:08) <MikkelPaulson>thanks Ayes
(22:08) <MikkelPaulson>for the record, the WikiLeaks mirror is online
(22:08) <MikkelPaulson>they just haven't uploaded any material to it yet
(22:08) <MikkelPaulson>apparently their mirroring system is ironically down
(22:09) <AndIrc>First off, i do not want to hide my full endorsement of Ayes in this 
election. My questions are to each, and as follows; What plans have you toward making the 
city you live in, a more "Free Culture" city? Second, why would you be the person for the 
job, and your city be a good place to focus efforts in that measure? 
(22:09) <MikkelPaulson>done?
(22:10) <AndIrc>And, come to think of it, why would your loction be an asset?
(22:10) <AndIrc>Done.
(22:11) <SteveHenderson> Excellent question AndIrc. I'm quite glad free culture has been 
explicitly brought to the table. Recently in Calgary I have been involved with the formation 
of the Activist Collective Project (https://www.pirateparty.ca/forum/index.php?topic=756.0).
(22:14) <MikkelPaulson>sorry, Steve's having some tech problems
(22:14) <SteveHenderson1>My apologies. I was accidentally disconnected.
(22:15) <SteveHenderson1>Anyway, the goal of the Activist Collective Project is to create a 
unifying effort for activist communities focused on libertarianism, cultural liberalism, and 
humanitarianism.
(22:15) <SteveHenderson1>In doing so we hope to raise awareness of both the Pirate Party and 
free culture movements within this city.
(22:16) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(22:16) <SteveHenderson1>Furthermore with regards to my location, Calgary is a center 
(however not as big as vancouver) for activism. There are numerous activist communities here, 
many of which are involved with or debating joining the activist collective project.
(22:16) <SteveHenderson1>Here is a link to the Facebook page for the project: 
http://www.facebook.com/vinetom#!/home.php?sk=group_191087107569122
(22:18) <Ayes>My turn?
(22:18) <MikkelPaulson>yes
(22:18) <Ayes>A free culture city is an interesting idea. I guess the best way to do that 
would be to work with local organizations with an interest in free culture to plan events and 
shows. Try to engage artists and activists to take up the cause of free culture, which I feel 
is a very powerful idea that people have a hard time objecting to.
(22:19) <Ayes>We should look into ways to try to free up the means of sharing and 
collaborating with other people in the community, including wireless sharing network hubs to 
meet up with pirates and share in the real world, or even small community “intranets”.
(22:19) <Ayes>I am a good person for the job because I already have visibility here, and I 
have a network of contacts (members and non-members) who are very willing to help the cause. 
Vancouver is a place very rich with culture. People around here love music and arts and 
culture, and it will be an easy sell to tell them that we want to “free culture”
(22:20) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(22:20) <Ayes>It would be an incredible benefit to the PPCA to have a dedicated person like 
me here on the west coast, and if I have the blessing of the membership, I'd love to be a 
real representative of the pirate movement over here.
(22:21) <Ayes>I have also helped on the Activist Collective project, trying to get the 
Calgary chapter off of the ground, so we can spread to Vancouver and other places.
(22:21) <Ayes>Collaboration with like minded groups is going to help the Pirate Party more 
than distancing ourselves from them.
(22:21) <Ayes>Even the kooky ones.
(22:22) <MikkelPaulson>okay, thanks
(22:22) <Ayes>Thank you.
(22:23) <MikkelPaulson>any further questions, please /msg sb speakers add; otherwise, we'll 
move to closing statements after this
(22:23) <Ayes>what about rintaran?
(22:23) <rintaran>"Free Culture" is an interesting idea. I'm an author and a poet in what 
little free time I still have. On the one hand, I would love to have everyone read or hear my 
work. On the other, I would like to be able to live off it. The two ideas, unfortunately, 
don't work too well together.
(22:23) <MikkelPaulson>he has the floor now ;)
(22:25) <rintaran>In my opinion, culture itself doesn't need to be free, access to it needs 
to be free. This means more strength to our libraries, including digital libraries where 
people can borrow, for free, these sources of information and entertainment. It does not mean 
that I can obtain a copy of the latest Koontz novel and e-mail a copy to 1 million of my 
closest friends.
(22:25) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(22:26) <rintaran>There's a difference between owning and access. Access should be free, and 
to these ends I helped establish Carleton Univeristy's English Literature Society, which 
works in conjunction with Open Words publishing and with a number of local coffee houses 
providing free venues for free chapbooks and readings.
(22:27) <rintaran>These chapbooks and reading provide a cultural foundation and a sampling of 
the author's work. If they wish for more, they can make use of one of our free libraries or 
purchase a copy of their own.
(22:27) <rintaran>Culture does need to be freed after a time, like a meagre 5-years, just 
long enough to let our cultural entrepreneurs afford to eat off their work.
(22:28) <rintaran>Once that short mark reaches, let the seeds blow free across the city, 
country, and world.  Thank-you.
(22:28) <MikkelPaulson>thanks
(22:28) <MikkelPaulson>seeing no further questions, we'll move on to closing remarks
(22:29) <MikkelPaulson>any other questions can be asked in the debate's thread, or in 
individual candidates' threads in the forum
(22:29) <MikkelPaulson>and hopefully we'll get Travis to respond to some of the questions as 
well
(22:30) <Woofcat>Can I fit in one last question?
(22:30) <MikkelPaulson>mib_zmbifk: sorry, you have to be logged in to speak and ask questions
(22:30) <SteveHenderson>^go ahead
(22:30) <MikkelPaulson>sure
(22:31) <Woofcat>Seeing as the PPCA's focus mainly is on technolgy based experts would you 
oppose the idea of the PPCA getting subject matter experts who could help guide policy? If 
not how should we attract these positions?
(22:31) <AndIrc>Can I make a short followup question?
(22:31) <MikkelPaulson>go ahead
(22:32) <MikkelPaulson>did you want to do that now or afterwards?
(22:33) <AndIrc>Rin, you seem to endorse a measure of artificial scarcty, is due to a lack of 
any bettet idea?
(22:34) <MikkelPaulson>ah, to the previous statement
(22:34) <rintaran>It's due to a want to eat.
(22:34) <AndIrc>Sorry for the spelling. Touch phone.
(22:34) <MikkelPaulson>okay
(22:35) <MikkelPaulson>anything else to add?
(22:36) <rintaran>I like the idea of very short-term temporary artificial scarcity in any 
endeavour. Artists, authors, musicians, etc need to eat, pay bills, etc. If everything is 
given away for free, they can't do that. Instead of being able to work toward their next 
piece of art, music, book, etc, they have to maintain different day jobs. I'd rather get more 
reading out of them for a small short-term cost, than only see one book in many years.
(22:36) <AndIrc>Flattr
(22:37) <rintaran>At the five-year point, most authors/artists/etc stop making any real money 
off of the work. By keeping copyright beyond that point, it forces the cultural aspect of it 
to disappear.
(22:37) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(22:38) <rintaran>That's why I endorse cultural products becoming free for all at the 
five-year mark. Then the author has been reimbursed for his time. Think of it like this, 
would you work at starbucks for free your entire life? Writing/Art/Music is their job. They 
need money just as much as anyone else in our current economic system.
(22:39) <Ayes>I think pay-as-you-want models will become more prominent in the future, but I 
also endorse a 5 year copyright term. I do think that it would be the responsibility of the 
artist or distributor to make sure that it didn't "leak" before the five years though, I 
don't think law enforcement should be touching file sharing.
(22:39) <Ayes>Additionally, there is a big difference between being a barista and an artist.
(22:40) <Ayes>People derive pleasure from the act of creation, paycheque or not.
(22:40) <Ayes>I disagree with the idea Shawn shared that free culture and making money off 
your work aren't compatible. I too, have struggled to make money off of my work as a 
cartoonist and animator, but as we move forward into this exciting new millennium, more and 
more resources are appearing for artists to profit off of their work.
(22:41) <Ayes> Indeed, now it seems the only way for artists to get the exposure they need is 
to drop their work online for free. I imagine services like Flattr will be more prominent in 
the future. As people spend less money on the established culture monoliths, they will have 
more to drop in the hats of the real starving artists. 
(22:41) <Ayes>The people like Shawn who don't have a contract, they just love their art. 
(22:42) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(22:42) <Ayes>And will we be fielding Woofcat's question soon? I am rather fond of his idea.
(22:42) <MikkelPaulson>yeah, SteveHenderson also wanted to respond to the followup
(22:42) <MikkelPaulson>we'll move along to Woofcat's question after that
(22:42) <MikkelPaulson>sorry for the confusion
(22:42) <MikkelPaulson>done?
(22:42) <Ayes>yes,
(22:43) <Ayes>thank you
(22:43) <SteveHenderson>Woofcat: The notion of having subject experts involved with the 
policy in the PPCA is great.
(22:44) <MikkelPaulson>SteveHenderson: you're responding specifically to the followup
(22:44) <MikkelPaulson>we'll get to Woofcat's question next, then I think we'll move into 
closing statements
(22:44) <MikkelPaulson>it's getting late
(22:44) <SteveHenderson>However, as I said before I am a firm advocate of an open source and 
transparent party. Subsequently, I feel that everyone should be able to equally contribute. 
Expert or not.
(22:44) <SteveHenderson>Ah, well I've responded anyway.
(22:45) <SteveHenderson>With regards to Rintaran's five year copyright 20:38 <+rintaran> At 
the five-year point, most authors/artists/etc stop making any real money off of the work. By 
keeping copyright beyond  that point, it forces the cultural aspect of it to disappear.
(22:45) <SteveHenderson>woops
(22:46) <SteveHenderson>With regards to Rintaran's idea of a five year copyright period, I 
must say that I am strongly opposed to this. Who will enforce this copyright? What if it is 
violated? These are issues that stem from the existence of copyright. We should be advocating 
complete infoanarchism.
(22:46) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(22:46) <SteveHenderson>The reality is, we have no control over intellectual property on the 
Internet.
(22:47) <SteveHenderson>That's not to say people don't need to eat. But a system of voluntary 
paying is the only realistic way to go given the anarchistic structure of the Internet.
(22:47) <MikkelPaulson>okay, and time
(22:48) <MikkelPaulson>just to confirm, did you want to waive your response to Woofcat's 
question as you've already responded?
(22:48) <Ayes>I'd like to clarify, I don't believe in intellectual property- the 5 year cap I 
mentioned would be for physical distribution only.
(22:48) <SteveHenderson>I've already stated my response. It would be redundant to type it 
again.
(22:48) <MikkelPaulson>okay
(22:48) <Ayes>Hence, why it is in the hands of the distributor to keep it offline.
(22:49) <MikkelPaulson>to restate the question, then:
(22:49) <MikkelPaulson>20:31:28 Woofcat: Seeing as the PPCA's focus mainly is on technolgy 
based experts would you oppose the idea of the PPCA getting subject matter experts who could 
help guide policy? If not how should we attract these positions?
(22:51) <rintaran>I would not oppose getting those technology subject matter experts on board 
to provide ideas and options related to policy and their specialized areas. However, I 
believe that the overall policies are to be created by the general assembly in the primacy.
(22:52) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(22:52) <rintaran>As for attracting those experts, the first step is to not alienate them. 
You will alienate almost every telecom by telling them everything they're doing is wrong. You 
will alienate every artist/author/etc by telling them you want to completely abolish all 
copyright law all at once, taking away their only revenue.
(22:53) <rintaran>Beyond that, we need to take those experts aside and talk with them, 
discover their concerns and work with them toward a central ground, one in which both the 
party and the expert are in agreement.
(22:53) <rintaran>It's a long process, networking with people and experts. It requires taking 
a genuine interest in not just their field, but in the person themselves. We should strive to 
do that as we move forward.
(22:53) <MikkelPaulson>okay, thank you
(22:53) <rintaran>Thank-you.
(22:54) <Ayes>We should definitely be seeking membership from as many technology minded 
people as we can. I think our ranks will be filled with programmers and other internet loving 
young adults naturally, but the pursuit of people with more analog understandings of 
technology will be important. 
(22:54) <Ayes>We can do this by organizing student clubs at technical schools, and trying to 
align our motivations with theirs. Is there a union we should try to help? What are the 
people who know about this technical nitty-gritty stuff interested in? Is there some way that 
we can expand or modify our platform to match the concerns of these technical experts?
(22:54) <Ayes>As I think we should have a scientific or social basis for our platform, the 
knowledge of these "experts" could be very valuable.
(22:56) <Ayes>That being said, like the others have stated, this doesn't mean less input from 
people who aren't credited experts.
(22:56) <Ayes>Crowd sourced policy will be crowd pleasing policy.
(22:56) <Ayes>We are here for the many, not for the few.
(22:57) <Ayes>Thank you.
(22:57) <MikkelPaulson>thanks ayes
(22:57) <MikkelPaulson>that brings us to the end of the Q&A period
(22:57) <MikkelPaulson>any general comments before we move on to closing statements?
(22:58) <Ayes>I think we may need a better debate system in the future.
(22:58) <Ayes>But I feel like this was generally a success.
(22:58) <MikkelPaulson>okay
(22:58) <MikkelPaulson>I'd like to get some feedback on Stenobot as it's very much a work in 
progress, but we'll leave that until after the meeting
(22:58) <MikkelPaulson>in the meantime, let's move on
(23:00) <rintaran>We've had an excellent evening, with questions that have required a lot of 
thought from all the candidates before you. Each candidate has different opinions in 
different areas, and each has different experiences that will lend them aid in the roles of 
Directors-At-Large.
(23:01) <rintaran>I believe I sit more in the reality of the situation and see a step-by-step 
path toward a long goal than my two colleagues. Immediate abolishment of copyright should not 
be our platform, but reduction in stages should.
(23:01) <rintaran>Focusing exclusively on technology should not be our goal, but finding ways 
to include it in peoples lives should.
(23:02) <MikkelPaulson>1 minute
(23:02) <MikkelPaulson>(sorry, to reiterate: closing statements are 3 minutes)
(23:03) <rintaran>Bringing in someone who is organized, who can bring forth a critical path 
outlining a step-by-step process to get our agenda to the right tables, and to gradually, in 
a way that people can adapt and accept is something we need urgently, on top of much better 
communication.
(23:04) <rintaran>These are things that I bring to this table, and these are things the party 
desperately needs. It needs it now more than every before. So I implore you to vote for me, 
Shawn Gray, on February 7th when poles open. Thank-you.
(23:04) <MikkelPaulson>thanks
(23:05) <Ayes>As I feel this debate has shown, all of the candidates have good ideas, and are 
willing to put the time towards making the Pirate Party of Canada what it needs to be to be 
successful. A collaborative approach is going to give us the best results.
(23:06) <Ayes>I think that the other candidates have great ideas and input, but I feel that I 
am the best choice for the Director-At-Large. I have organized a popular rally, and I have 
spearheaded an ambitious PR project. I have been steadily introducing new ideas in the forums 
for as long as I have been around.
(23:06) <Ayes>I have many more great ideas, but I need support in order to do them 
effectively.
(23:06) <Ayes>My concerns about the others are minimal. Travis sometimes says things that are 
inappropriate for the discussion. Steve is an idealist and isn't afraid of the label 
infoanarchism, which many (including the leadership) are. 
(23:07) <Ayes>Shawn considers himself practical, but may be too dismissive of other's ideas. 
And in this position, he would leave another vacancy that needs to be filled.
(23:07) <Ayes>They're all great candidates, and Iook forward to being on the council with one 
of them if I make it.
(23:07) <Ayes>I hope that you make the right choice, whatever you feel it is. I also hope 
that you feel the right choice is me, because I think I can do a lot for the Party. 
(23:08) <MikkelPaulson>sorry, 1 minute
(23:08) <Ayes>Vote for Shawn Vulliez. His last name has a Z in it.
(23:08) <Ayes>Thank you.
(23:10) <SteveHenderson>When you go to cast your vote for the federal council election, I 
humbly request that you keep in mind the pressure which is currently threatening the Internet.
(23:10) <SteveHenderson> We do not have the luxury of being bureaucratic.
(23:11) <SteveHenderson>Vote for whoever you feel will make a difference for the better.
(23:11) <MikkelPaulson>great
(23:12) <MikkelPaulson>thanks to all four of our candidates
(23:12) <MikkelPaulson>and to everyone who came out in support of our democratic process
(23:12) <MikkelPaulson>voting will open next Saturday and will remain open for the following 
week
(23:13) <MikkelPaulson>we'll send out info on how to vote closer to that time
(23:13) <MikkelPaulson>we also had Ayes and Travis as guest directors at the Federal Council 
meeting last Thursday, and we'll be featuring rintaran this Thursday
(23:13) <MikkelPaulson>you can find a transcript from that meeting in the forum
(23:14) <MikkelPaulson>so with that, I wish our candidates the best of luck in the election

View Minutes.